Name 3 reasons you are not Catholic (yet).

[estesbob]

!. Scripture is not for private interpretation.
2Pe 1:20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.
2Pe 1:21 For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.

1. Jesus died once for our sins.
   Rom 6:9 Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him.
   **(**Jesus is not still hanging on the cross. The cross is empty because he is sitting on right hand of the father making intercession for us.)
   Rom 8:34 Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.

3**.** Work at the cross was finished.
Joh 19:30 When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, It is finished: and he bowed his head, and
gave up the ghost.

1. Holy Spirit is our teacher.
   Joh 14:26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach
   you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

5 Forbidding to marry and abstaining from meat.
1Ti 4:1 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;
1Ti 4:2 Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;
1Ti 4:3 Forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth.

1. We are forbidden to receive any other doctrine other than that which the apostles gave us and sealed with their testimony. To do otherwise would make me accursed.
   Gal 1:9 As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.
2. Vain repetition when praying.
   Mat 6:7 But when ye pray, use not vain repetitions, as the heathen do: for they think that they shall be heard for
   their much speaking.
3. Only one mediator between man and God.
   1Ti 2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;
   1Ti 2:6 Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.
   This leaves out anyone other that Jesus Christ. Praying to or through anyone else is against the scripture.
4. We are all priest if Christ is in us.
   Rev 1:6 And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.
   Rev 5:10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.
5. The Bible clearly shows that all those who are in Christ church are called Saints.

You asked for three reasons why I am not a Catholic yet. These are just a few. I do not wish to be offensive but to simply teach scripture. Jesus said: Mat 10:34 Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword.
That sword is the word of God. Heb 4:12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.

Glory be to the most High God in Jesus name.

Nice cut n paste but there is nothing in those scripture verses that contradicts anything the Church teaches-that is unless we accept you personal interpertation of these verses. By what authority do you presume to interpert Scripture for the rest of us?

 

[Mannyfit75]

kujo313:

Better way of putting it, tyvm.

However, after 9 months, Jesus LEFT Mary’s body and she had to follow Him just like you and I have to.

and Jesus was obedient to his mother and she remain with him for 30 yrs, and she was there with him at the cross.

You should be careful, I find most of you post borderline Anti-Catholic which would violate the rules of the forum.

This post that you wrote I believe is extremely with disrespectful.

kujo313:

Go to mass, get your stomach pumped at the hospital. Any flesh in your stomach? No. Any other blood but your own? No.

Funny how you take that literally but you don’t pluck out your eye or cut off your hand. Jesus also said that he’s a vine and a gate.
You take things literally only to further your own cause and not the cause of the Gospel. All allegories to help you understand God’s Will for all of mankind.

 

[Jaypeeto3]

Therefore, the catholic religion could teach what they wanted and nobody could look it up for themselves. The rcc did not want the Bible translated into other languages in fear of losing control of the people.

This is a wicked and demonic accusation, as evil as it is SILLY.
The Catholic Church did not exist ONLY in the LATIN rite.
There were Catholics and Eastern Orthodox in Greece, Palestine, Dalmatia, Croatia, Bulgaria, Byzantium, etc., all of whom had scriptures IN THE VERNACULAR for their people, and yet for 1500 years the Holy Spirit did not raise up ANY opposition to the catholic beliefs about the Eucharist, veneration of Saints, even asking the Saints in Heaven to pray for us, ordination of priests, etc. And all these people’s scriptures WERE in the language of the people.

So where was the Holy Spirit raising up valiant Witnesses against the dastardly Catholic doctrines for 1500 years???
The fact that all the anti-Catholicism began with foul-mouthed, mean-spirited men like Luther, Calvin, Knox and Cranmer speaks volumes as to the falsity of the falsely-so-called
“Reformed” doctrines. They are heresies, not restorations of Christian truth.

 

[Mannyfit75]

Therefore, the catholic religion could teach what they wanted and nobody could look it up for themselves. The rcc did not want the Bible translated into other languages in fear of losing control of the people.

This is a wicked and demonic accusation, as evil as it is SILLY.
The Catholic Church did not exist ONLY in the LATIN rite.
There were Catholics and Eastern Orthodox in Greece, Palestine, Dalmatia, Croatia, Bulgaria, Byzantium, etc., all of whom had scriptures IN THE VERNACULAR for their people, and yet for 1500 years the Holy Spirit did not raise up ANY opposition to the catholic beliefs about the Eucharist, veneration of Saints, even asking the Saints in Heaven to pray for us, ordination of priests, etc. And all these people’s scriptures WERE in the language of the people.

So where was the Holy Spirit raising up valiant Witnesses against the dastardly Catholic doctrines for 1500 years???
The fact that all the anti-Catholicism began with foul-mouthed, mean-spirited men like Luther, Calvin, Knox and Cranmer speaks volumes as to the falsity of the falsely-so-called
“Reformed” doctrines. They are heresies, not restorations of Christian truth.

 

[Ani_Ibi]

kujo313:

You put your religion’s “tradition” right up there with Scripture.

Yep. It is very Catholic of you to have noticed. Good work, kujo!

kujo313:

Scripture is the Word of God.

Scripture is not the Word of God. I have posted the following link today until I am blue in the face. Here it is again. Read it and weep. The Word of God = Logos = Jesus. Jesus is a Person. Jesus is not a Pile of Books.

kujo313:

If God wanted Mary to be lifted up that high, He would’ve done so.

Your starting to really catch on, kujo. Way to go!

kujo313:

He didn’t.

Kujo! You missed it! Next time, don’t blink!

kujo313:

The RCC lifted Mary to where she is now.

Exactly where Jesus wants her.

kujo313:

The ONLY Divine Plan that Mary was a part of was giving birth to the Messiah.

Surely you jest! Surely you don’t mean that Our Lady was nothing more than a convenient womb? Who taught you to regard women this way, kujo? So sad.

Sheesh and some folks inside the Church lament loudly that the Vatican is just another old boys club. That’s because they don’t know anything about women who have been Saints.

As for an old boy’s club, what was that denomination you said you belonged to, kujo? I’m thinking of sending some folks I know your way. Would that make you happy? It sure would make me happy!

 

[cpayne]

Hi, Ani. You know, staying on top of this stuff is getting to be like a full-time job.

 

[Sean_Boyle]

You put your religion’s “tradition” right up there with Scripture. Scripture is the Word of God.
quote]

Scripture, my friend, comes from the Tradition. You are free not to believe that if that makes you feel better after all God gave you free will to believe or not believe. Scripture was written by Catholic bishops to there flocks. Which by the way can’t be disproven in any language.

 

[Ani_Ibi]

Scripture was written by Catholic bishops to there flocks. Which by the way can’t be disproven in any language.

Well perhaps it can be disproven in jabberwockese. We must be fair.

 

[Ani_Ibi]

Hi, Ani. You know, staying on top of this stuff is getting to be like a full-time job.

I think I feel a thread coming on…

 

[guanophore]

You should be careful, I find most of you post borderline Anti-Catholic which would violate the rules of the forum.

This post that you wrote I believe is extremely with disrespectful.

I think we may be well over the border Mannyfit. But, the question was asked, “Name reasons”. In # 153 he said the “Pope bows to the will of people, not God.” Those who honor Mary are idolators, the RCC is “off the deep end”. In $ 155 he says that Mary is the focus of the Church and not Jesus. In # 175 He describes Mary as “just wrapping paper” for Jesus, and asserts that, if she were not interested in conceiving, God would have “taken another virgin from around there”. Mary is a detour from Christ. in # 176 he says that believing Mary is free from sin is blasphemous and the RCC is a "man made and makes God into (it’s) own image. From some other posts on the thread:

The successors to the Apostles cannot be trusted …

The writings of those who came after the Apostles are their own version of what was said. Just as Eve misquoted God and Adam, your “popes” and “saints” misquote the Apostles.
Maybe one of those guys really, REALLY loves his mommy and maybe was a “mommy’s boy.” He’d favor his mother and would of take his center of focus off of God and onto one of His creations.
Your one person in Italy is quoting a “mommy’s boy” and not a Son who’s into His Father’s business.

Actually, can’t trust even the writings of those who followed the Apostles. There is no evidence that the Apostles called Mary their own mother, or ours either.

One follower of Peter had to have been a "mommy's boy" and had a special devotion to his own mother.  In hearing the Gospel, he'd listen to the "born of a virgin" part and paid closer attention to the "mommy" part of Jesus.

Your “pope” follows a “mommy’s boy” instead of the “Boy”. In the Law and Prophets, it’s perfectly clear that the virgin, the “sign” of the coming Messiah, was not to be worshipped or lifted up.

Reason I'm not Catholic (or ever will be)?   It defiled the Gospel 1900 years ago and has been doing it ever since.

It’s the Holy Spirit outside the man-made religion called Catholicism or the RCC. You can’t be given a revelation by yourself. You’re bound to what your popes, biships, etc. TELL you it means.

That’s not the way of the Holy Spirit, whom Jesus said is like the wind. You don’t know where it’s going and you can’t control it even though the people you submit to quench it.

The catholic religion, however, is off, an a different direction, about as much as the Jehovah's Witnesses: deceiving countless millions around the world.

Yet, no matter what Jesus said, the RCC asks others in the form of popes, "saints" and Mary. 

John 10:1  “Most assuredly, I say to you, he who does not enter the sheepfold by the door, but climbs up some other way, the same is a thief and a robber.


The use of the scapular brought to the RCC through an aparation of Mary is to be worn so the believer can escape Hell.  There is only ONE WAY.

Matthew 7:14

Because narrow is the gate and difficult is the way which leads to life, and there are few who find it.

The “catholic” church is too big to qualify for the “few”.

Just as your denomination has it’s “traditions”, other denominations have theirs. Does your “traditions” line up with Scripture? It can’t be because your denomination would call that “sola scriptula”.

Your denomination is "off".  Not as much as Islam, but it's still "off"... not following the narrow way.

 

[Deo_Volente]

Grace & Peace!

Kujo313, it seems your main complaint about Roman Catholicism regards Mary and the saints. I used to have a similar complaint. No longer. What changed my mind? Thinking about the Incarnation and thinking about the Communion of Saints.

Chances are you will not understand what I am about to write, but I’m going to write it anyway–sound devotion to the God-bearer Mary is the surest safeguard against misunderstandings regarding the Incarnation of our Lord.

Mary can only be Mother of God if Jesus is God. Think about the Incarnation for a moment, then think about the nature of Jesus’ flesh–whose flesh is it? From whom did it come? Isn’t the answer to that question “His Mother”?

Consider that we are called to be the Body of Christ. Where did he get this Body? His Mother. This is why Mary is such a cleart embodiment of the Christian way–what happens to Mary is meant to happen to us as well–why? Because Mary is the example of the Christian life. Why? Because it is our job to bear the Word of God in our souls just as Mary bore him in her body and in her soul.

You deny catholic traditions re: Mary at your own theological peril, therefore. Why is Mary crowned Queen of Heaven? Because she represents the Eighth Day of Creation, the Renewal of Creation, and the point of Creation is to be the Bride of God and to show forth God. What does that have to do with you and me? We have been pre-destined by Grace to be crowned in Heaven.

Why pray to Mary or to the other saints? Do you ask other people to pray for you? If you do, the same principle is at work in asking the Saints for their prayers–only they have been knit by grace into the Life of God, through Christ, in the Spirit. They are not insensible lumps of clay–to believe as much is to believe that death is greater than Life–specifically, Life in Christ. It is to believe that death is too great a barrier to be overcome by Life–which has been disproven in the Resurrection! Time is penetrated by Eternity, and the Saints have crossed over into the Eternal. On the other side of the veil, they embody Grace and pass on the Grace they receive to us. Does that make them sources of that Grace, and thereby worthy of worship? No. It makes them instruments of God’s good Grace, and that makes them just plain good Christians! Do they intercede for us of their own power? No! They intercede for us out of the Love that dwells in them. Whose Love is this? Christ’s Love!

Your objections to Mary and the Communion of Saints have real theological consequences of which you may not be aware–these consequences include an unwitting denial of many central points of Christian theology. In order to appreciate the church’s veneration of Mary, a right understanding of the Incarnation is in order. Coupled with a right understanding of the classical Creeds of the church, your misgivings should be answered. I hope you will consider cultivating such an understanding. Until you do, I suggest that you stop posting in this thread. Your misunderstanding of Mary and her place in the church has already caused you to utter shameful things with regard to our Mother.

Under the Mercy,
Mark

Deo Gratias!

 

[Ani_Ibi]

I think we may be well over the border Mannyfit. But, the question was asked, “Name reasons”. In # 153 he said the “Pope bows to the will of people, not God.” Those who honor Mary are idolators, the RCC is “off the deep end”. In $ 155 he says that Mary is the focus of the Church and not Jesus. In # 175 He describes Mary as “just wrapping paper” for Jesus, and asserts that, if she were not interested in conceiving, God would have “taken another virgin from around there”. Mary is a detour from Christ. in # 176 he says that believing Mary is free from sin is blasphemous and the RCC is a "man made and makes God into (it’s) own image. From some other posts on the thread:

All that tells me is the kujo is cruising for a personal encounter with Our Lady. A person can’t say those sorts of things about the Mother of Jesus without Jesus setting him straight.

Hey, the higher the horse he’s riding, the harder the fall when it comes.

 

[Goth_Catholic]

All that tells me is the kujo is cruising for a personal encounter with Our Lady. A person can’t say those sorts of things about the Mother of Jesus without Jesus setting him straight.

Hey, the higher the horse he’s riding, the harder the fall when it comes.

Amen. He might just become one of our greatest advocates If our Lady appears to him.

 

[kujo313]

kujo313;2251567:

The New Testament was not collected either after 300 yrs because it was in the Council of Carthage, and Hippo canonize the book of the 27 NT into part of the Canon of Scripture. It also took 300 yrs to have the Church proclaim the Trinity, which is not found in the Bible.

If that is true, then how can Irenaues, who lived from 130-202 AD, quote from twenty-four of the twenty-seven books of the New Testament taking over 1800 quotations from the New Testament alone?
Clement of Alexandria lived from 150-215 AD. He cited all the New Testament books except Philemon, James and 2 Peter. He gave 2400 citations from the New Testament.
Tertullian lived from 160-220 AD. He made over 7200 New Testament citations.
Origen lived from 180-254 AD. He made nearly 18,000 New Testament citations.

By the end of the 3rd century, virtually the entire New Testament could be reconstructed from the writings of the church fathers.

 

[kujo313]

Amen. He might just become one of our greatest advocates If our Lady appears to him.

If your lady appears to me and says “wear this scapular and you’ll escape hellfire”, I’ll pull out different versions of the Bible and ask, “Where is it written?”
Ever notice that in the Bible that angels do not want to be worshipped? Neither did Peter.
I’ll also ask “her” why does teaching about her contradict Scripture.

 

[kujo313]

Grace & Peace!

Kujo313, it seems your main complaint about Roman Catholicism regards Mary and the saints. I used to have a similar complaint. No longer. What changed my mind? Thinking about the Incarnation and thinking about the Communion of Saints.

Chances are you will not understand what I am about to write, but I’m going to write it anyway–sound devotion to the God-bearer Mary is the surest safeguard against misunderstandings regarding the Incarnation of our Lord.

Mary can only be Mother of God if Jesus is God. Think about the Incarnation for a moment, then think about the nature of Jesus’ flesh–whose flesh is it? From whom did it come? Isn’t the answer to that question “His Mother”?

Consider that we are called to be the Body of Christ. Where did he get this Body? His Mother. This is why Mary is such a cleart embodiment of the Christian way–what happens to Mary is meant to happen to us as well–why? Because Mary is the example of the Christian life. Why? Because it is our job to bear the Word of God in our souls just as Mary bore him in her body and in her soul.

You deny catholic traditions re: Mary at your own theological peril, therefore. Why is Mary crowned Queen of Heaven? Because she represents the Eighth Day of Creation, the Renewal of Creation, and the point of Creation is to be the Bride of God and to show forth God. What does that have to do with you and me? We have been pre-destined by Grace to be crowned in Heaven.

Why pray to Mary or to the other saints? Do you ask other people to pray for you? If you do, the same principle is at work in asking the Saints for their prayers–only they have been knit by grace into the Life of God, through Christ, in the Spirit. They are not insensible lumps of clay–to believe as much is to believe that death is greater than Life–specifically, Life in Christ. It is to believe that death is too great a barrier to be overcome by Life–which has been disproven in the Resurrection! Time is penetrated by Eternity, and the Saints have crossed over into the Eternal. On the other side of the veil, they embody Grace and pass on the Grace they receive to us. Does that make them sources of that Grace, and thereby worthy of worship? No. It makes them instruments of God’s good Grace, and that makes them just plain good Christians! Do they intercede for us of their own power? No! They intercede for us out of the Love that dwells in them. Whose Love is this? Christ’s Love!

Your objections to Mary and the Communion of Saints have real theological consequences of which you may not be aware–these consequences include an unwitting denial of many central points of Christian theology. In order to appreciate the church’s veneration of Mary, a right understanding of the Incarnation is in order. Coupled with a right understanding of the classical Creeds of the church, your misgivings should be answered. I hope you will consider cultivating such an understanding. Until you do, I suggest that you stop posting in this thread. Your misunderstanding of Mary and her place in the church has already caused you to utter shameful things with regard to our Mother.

Under the Mercy,
Mark

Deo Gratias!

Hebrews 9:27
Deu 18: 10-12
1 Timothy 2:5, 1 Peter 2:5

I posted before the miracle that a sinless Savior can be born from a woman born with a sinful nature and needed a Savior. Perfection born from imperfection.
The prophet said that a virgin shall give birth and says nothing about her after that. Jesus opened up the Scriptures to His disciples concerning Himself. Surely He’d mention Mary. If she was as important as your denomination makes her out to be, then from Acts 1 to Jude, Mary would’ve been mentioned a alot more.
But she isn’t. Why?

Because in the Bible, that’s all we need to know. Using your reasoning, I can clearly ask, “what about the ‘Holy Step-father’?” or “What about the Holy Grandparents?”
You loved your grandparents? HOW can you diss Jesus’ grandparents?

You see, it’s way out of focus. The main reason for the prophecy was to look for the Messiah.

 

[LilyM]

Mannyfit75;2251586:

If that is true, then how can Irenaues, who lived from 130-202 AD, quote from twenty-four of the twenty-seven books of the New Testament taking over 1800 quotations from the New Testament alone?
Clement of Alexandria lived from 150-215 AD. He cited all the New Testament books except Philemon, James and 2 Peter. He gave 2400 citations from the New Testament.
Tertullian lived from 160-220 AD. He made over 7200 New Testament citations.
Origen lived from 180-254 AD. He made nearly 18,000 New Testament citations.

By the end of the 3rd century, virtually the entire New Testament could be reconstructed from the writings of the church fathers.

Big deal. So, probably, could the book called the Didache, the Shepherd of Hermas, the Letters of Clement (one of Peter’s successors as Pope by the way - the fact that his letters are treasured and preserved and not those of most other bishops says something about Rome’s importance even then).

All of these three were read in the Christian liturgy in at plenty of places too. And in plenty of the same places some or all of the Epistles or Gospels of the Canon weren’t read in liturgy. So again, how do you know which are canonical and which arent, which are inspired and which aren’t, if so many extrabiblical writings are treated as being of equal weight, hmmm?

 

[fellowChristian]

If you love truth, then you must really love Jesus.
But what keeps you from the truth,keeps you from Jesus.
The Catholic Church is not either or.
With the Catholic Church it is not Faith or Works, it is both.
With the Catholic Church baptism is not initiation or washes away sin it is both.
We have the fullness. Protestants subtracted.You still have homework to do. Just keep saying yes to Jesus. But don’t neglect God the Father or God the Holy Spirit.

1 Timothy 3:15:
if I am delayed, you will know how people ought to conduct themselves in God’s household, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and foundation of the** truth**.

The Catholic Church is guided by the Holy Spirit.

More about Mary in scripture
scripturecatholic.com/blessed_virgin_mary.html

 

[kujo313]

kujo313;2255009:

Big deal. So, probably, could the book called the Didache

, the Shepherd of Hermas, the Letters of Clement (one of Peter’s successors as Pope by the way - the fact that his letters are treasured and preserved and not those of most other bishops says something about Rome’s importance even then).

All of these three were read in the Christian liturgy in at plenty of places too. And in plenty of the same places some or all of the Epistles or Gospels of the Canon weren’t read in liturgy. So again, how do you know which are canonical and which arent, which are inspired and which aren’t?

This we DO know:

Some group of people decided that what is in the Bible we carry today is inspired by God. Books that didn’t make it was either not inspired or repeats of what was already in there.
If there was ANY book that shared the same faith of the “catholics” of that day, they would’ve put them in there. For example, if one book centered around the life of Mary.
The books that ARE inspired by God centers the focus on Jesus and seems to give Mary an “honorable mention”. It’s your denomination who “looks between the lines” when it comes to Mary.
The pattern, or “tradition”, seems to remain the same throughout the whole Bible:

God:

Exodus 20:3-5; Deu 5:8-9

“You shall have no other gods before Me. “You shall not make for yourself a carved image—any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth; you shall not bow down to them nor serve them. For I, the LORD your God, am a jealous God"

(say! Ain’t Mary supposed to be in Heaven? A statue is a “likeness”.)

Jesus

John 14:6

“I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me."

John 10:7-10

7 Then Jesus said to them again, “Most assuredly, I say to you, I am the door of the sheep. 8 All who ever came before Me[a] are thieves and robbers, but the sheep did not hear them. 9 I am the door. If anyone enters by Me, he will be saved, and will go in and out and find pasture. 10 The thief does not come except to steal, and to kill, and to destroy. I have come that they may have life, and that they may have it more abundantly."

The Holy Spirit

1 Timothy 2:5

For there is one God and one Mediator between God and men, the Man Christ Jesus.

 

[BelFarfalla]

Therefore, the catholic religion could teach what they wanted and nobody could look it up for themselves. The rcc did not want the Bible translated into other languages in fear of losing control of the people.
It may be true that 90% of the “church” was illiterate… in Latin. In studying Scripture, the Reformation was about using Scripture alone.

The Catholic Church offered a free education from childhood all the way up to master and doctorate level to any male who asked. The monasteries were forbidden to ask for payment. Part of this education was Latin, Greek, catechism and theology. When I was a child these were still part of a formal education.
Before the printing press, every Church had a bible. They had to chain them down because they were extremely hard to get and expensive. It took a monk 6 months to a year to produce a hand written bible. The Church’s version was usually the only one in town. Thieves regularly tired to steal the bibles as they sold for a good price. A bible in those days cost about the equivalent of $8,000 in today’s money.
After the printing press was invented it was used to print and make available affordable Catholic Bibles in both Latin. It was at this time that the Church stated to authorize some translations. These translations were also printed and made available. There were as many as 100 editions of some bibles printed before Luther came along. Once bibles became affordable they were readily available to all Catholics.