Name one Catholic teaching that contradicts Scripture

[MariaG]

kujo313:

Jesus said “Follow Me” and “I am the Way”. Mary said “Do what He says.”

Pardon me if I listen to Jesus.

And ironically, listening to Mary.

All generations will call me Blessed.

I am still looking for the contradiction to Scripture in the teachings of the Catholic Church.

The Church teaches that Mary is the handmaiden of the Lord, not a deity. So does Scripture.

The Church teaches that all things are possible with God. So does Scripture.

The Church teaches that there is a communion of Saints, told to pray for one another, we are one body of Christ. So does Scripture.

Where are the contradictions?

God Bless,
Maria

 

[MariaG]

kujo313:

Actually, I see going any other way to God but through Jesus as diluted joy. Because of Jesus, we can go directly to God ourselves. In God’s presence is FULLNESS of joy.
I’d rather do that than have it second-hand.

Since the Church does not teach that we cannot or should not go directly to God, I am still looking for contradictions?

This isn’t a thread about how a person prefers to pray to God, (straight to Chris of ask friends to do it for you). It is about showing where Catholic teaching contradicts Scripture.

 

[Kirane]

The Scriptures say that the Jewish customs and Laws shall be eternal and perpetually observed for all generations. this is commanded twenty-four times in Scripture. However, according to Catholic teaching these laws do not have to be observed at this time. So it is a contradiction:

1. The Old Testament says that these Jewish customs and Laws must be observed perpetually and forever.“This is an eternal law for all generations”
2. The Catholic teaching is that they do not have to be observed.
   (Exodus 12:14, 12:17, 12:43, 27:21, 28:43, Leviticus 3:17, 7:36, 10:9, 16:29, 16:31, 16:34, 17:7, 23:14, 23:21, 23:31, 23:41, 24:3, Numbers 10:8, 15:15, 19:10, 19:21, 18:23, 35:29, Deuteronomy29:28)

 

[kujo313]

Kirane:

The Scriptures say that the Jewish customs and Laws shall be eternal and perpetually observed for all generations. this is commanded twenty-four times in Scripture. However, according to Catholic teaching these laws do not have to be observed at this time. So it is a contradiction:

1. The Old Testament says that these Jewish customs and Laws must be observed perpetually and forever.“This is an eternal law for all generations”
2. The Catholic teaching is that they do not have to be observed.
   (Exodus 12:14, 12:17, 12:43, 27:21, 28:43, Leviticus 3:17, 7:36, 10:9, 16:29, 16:31, 16:34, 17:7, 23:14, 23:21, 23:31, 23:41, 24:3, Numbers 10:8, 15:15, 19:10, 19:21, 18:23, 35:29, Deuteronomy29:28)

Why don’t they have to be observed? Do you pay tithe?

 

[kujo313]

MariaG:

Since the Church does not teach that we cannot or should not go directly to God, I am still looking for contradictions?

This isn’t a thread about how a person prefers to pray to God, (straight to Chris of ask friends to do it for you). It is about showing where Catholic teaching contradicts Scripture.

Yep, I’m in the wrong thread. TY

Besides, the contradictions could be shown to you and you’ll explain it away anyway.

 

[MariaG]

kujo313:

Yep, I’m in the wrong thread. TY

Besides, the contradictions could be shown to you and you’ll explain it away anyway.

Ever consider they will be explained away because there is no contradiction?

 

[MariaG]

Kirane:

The Scriptures say that the Jewish customs and Laws shall be eternal and perpetually observed for all generations. this is commanded twenty-four times in Scripture. However, according to Catholic teaching these laws do not have to be observed at this time. So it is a contradiction:

1. The Old Testament says that these Jewish customs and Laws must be observed perpetually and forever.“This is an eternal law for all generations”
2. The Catholic teaching is that they do not have to be observed.
   (Exodus 12:14, 12:17, 12:43, 27:21, 28:43, Leviticus 3:17, 7:36, 10:9, 16:29, 16:31, 16:34, 17:7, 23:14, 23:21, 23:31, 23:41, 24:3, Numbers 10:8, 15:15, 19:10, 19:21, 18:23, 35:29, Deuteronomy29:28)

Hi Kirane,

Although you have lumped all of these together, clearly not all of them were declared as “all generations”, and may be changed under “rule change” but still, let’s go point by point.

Exodus 12:14 is about the passover. The passover was a foreshadow of the Mass. We still celebrate it, just in Christ revealed, not hidden.

Exodus 12:17 unleavened bread. The Eucharist host is unleavened bread.

Exodus 12:43 no foreigner may partake of it. The Eucharistic celebration is a closed communion that no Non-Catholic is allowed to partake in.

Exodus 27:21 a perpetual ordinance for the Isralites. This will take a little more research. I do not wish to just say this falls under a rule change, for I do not know. I’ll have to get back to you on this or maybe someone else can give the history.

Exodus 28:43 perpetual ordinance for Aaron and his descendants. Ahh, this may be the explanation for this one and the previous one. What happened to the descendants of Aaron? Isralites? Since we are not Isralites, but Christians, these ordinaces would not apply to us? Just a guess.

I have to go for now. I need to take my son swimming. I hope someone else will go point by point with you.

God Bless,
Maria

 

[kujo313]

MariaG:

Ever consider they will be explained away because there is no contradiction?

Nope. I’m sure that we both can get scholars in here and watch them go back and forth.
I have much better things to do with my time than to get involved with it.

I know that there IS teaching that contradicts Scripture. One proof that I will only give is that Catholics do not believe in “Sola Scriptula”. The traditions of the Catholic church is supposed to fill in the “holes” that is in Scripture.
Instead of filling in the holes, I wish that they’d just not look at the holes but at God alone.

 

[Mickey]

kujo313:

I know that there IS teaching that contradicts Scripture. One proof that I will only give is that Catholics do not believe in “Sola Scriptula”.

But sola Scriptura is not Scriptural!

kujo313:

I have much better things to do with my time than to get involved with it.

So this means you are resigning from the forum?

 

[MariaG]

kujo313:

Nope. I’m sure that we both can get scholars in here and watch them go back and forth.
I have much better things to do with my time than to get involved with it.

I know that there IS teaching that contradicts Scripture. One proof that I will only give is that Catholics do not believe in “Sola Scriptula”. The traditions of the Catholic church is supposed to fill in the “holes” that is in Scripture.
Instead of filling in the holes, I wish that they’d just not look at the holes but at God alone.

That is false. There are no holes in Scripture nor is it a teaching of the Catholic Church that there are.

But I find it ironic that you use SS to “prove” contradiction since there is absolutely not one scripture that tells us to look to scripture alone.

2Thes 2:14Therefore, brethren, stand fast; and hold the traditions which you have learned, whether by word, or by our epistle.

Where in Scripture does it tell us it has all been written down now, only follow the written words?

And which Church is the Church to even claim to follow those oral words?

God Bless,
Maria

Note: This is the Duay-Rheims Bible. Some other translations the verse may be 2Thes 2:15.

 

[MariaG]

Kirane:

The Scriptures say that the Jewish customs and Laws shall be eternal and perpetually observed for all generations. this is commanded twenty-four times in Scripture. However, according to Catholic teaching these laws do not have to be observed at this time. So it is a contradiction:

1. The Old Testament says that these Jewish customs and Laws must be observed perpetually and forever.“This is an eternal law for all generations”
2. The Catholic teaching is that they do not have to be observed.
   (Exodus 12:14, 12:17, 12:43, 27:21, 28:43, Leviticus 3:17, 7:36, 10:9, 16:29, 16:31, 16:34, 17:7, 23:14, 23:21, 23:31, 23:41, 24:3, Numbers 10:8, 15:15, 19:10, 19:21, 18:23, 35:29, Deuteronomy29:28)

Leviticus 3:17 do not drink blood. Blood drinking was forbidden since the animal blood was used for sacrifice for atonement of sins. Now Jesus is the perfect sacrifice and His blood is the atonement for sin. No contradiction, just another foreshadowing in OT that is fully revealed in NT. For a better detailed explanation go here to Ask the Apologist where it has been answered.

Leviticus 10:9 rules on what foods can be eaten. In the NT, Peter was given a dream from God telling him that there is no unclean food. Rules were changed, and since authority to change the rules of this type were given, no contradiction.

Leviticus 16:29 fasting, See above answer.

I’ll try to do more later.

Although I wonder why since you never comment on points like rule changes and whether or not you think it is a valid point or not. If you don’t think it is a valid point, I am wasting my time with you, since many of these fall under the authority Christ gave to His Church to make and change the rules.

God Bless,
Maria

 

[Kirane]

MariaG:

Although I wonder why since you never comment on points like rule changes and whether or not you think it is a valid point or not. If you don’t think it is a valid point, I am wasting my time with you, since many of these fall under the authority Christ gave to His Church to make and change the rules.

There is a disagreement here because Jesus said:“Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill…” {Matthew 5:17,18}
The rules as you call them are know as the Law to Jews. This Law is an eternal covenant that God has made and is to be observed for all generations, according to the Scripture. The contradiciton comes in when the RCC says it can change the command of Scripture to obey the Law perpetually for all generations.

 

[Kirane]

kujo313:

Besides, the contradictions could be shown to you and you’ll explain it away anyway.

This is correct. People are shown passages which contradict Catholic teaching and the response is that if you look somewhere else in the Bible you will see something a little bit different.

 

[Prayer_Warrior]

Kirane:

This is correct. People are shown passages which contradict Catholic teaching and the response is that if you look somewhere else in the Bible you will see something a little bit different.

That is because the Bible is to be taken in context! A single passage might sound as if it is contradictory to another passage or Catholic teaching until it is taken in context. There could be ten or twenty verses touching on the same subject with each verse revealing a piece of the truth. But when you read only one verse you only get that one piece. This is one reason 2 Peter 3:16 warns about private interpretation.

 

[kujo313]

Mickey:

But sola Scriptura is not Scriptural!
So this means you are resigning from the forum?

Neither is Mary ascending to Heaven.

 

[kujo313]

MariaG:

That is false. There are no holes in Scripture nor is it a teaching of the Catholic Church that there are.

But I find it ironic that you use SS to “prove” contradiction since there is absolutely not one scripture that tells us to look to scripture alone.

2Thes 2:14 Therefore, brethren, stand fast; and hold the traditions which you have learned, whether by word, or by our epistle.

Where in Scripture does it tell us it has all been written down now, only follow the written words?

And which Church is the Church to even claim to follow those oral words?

God Bless,
Maria

Note: This is the Duay-Rheims Bible. Some other translations the verse may be 2Thes 2:15.

Mmm! Gotta answer this one!
2 Thes 2:14 Tell all of us: What was the “traditions” that Paul was referring to? In Galatians, he says to keep the “traditions” that he, himself, taught. He didn’t say “Make up some more traditions and keep them, for they are your traditions.”
So you have to read the letters from Paul to find out what he taught.

 

[tdandh26]

kujo313:

Mmm! Gotta answer this one!
2 Thes 2:14 Tell all of us: What was the “traditions” that Paul was referring to? In Galatians, he says to keep the “traditions” that he, himself, taught. He didn’t say “Make up some more traditions and keep them, for they are your traditions.”
So you have to read the letters from Paul to find out what he taught.

My question is, is Paul the teacher or is Jesus? If Jesus then my answer to what you ask what Paul means is what John says and that is “not everything which Jesus did or taught is written down, for if it were, I do not think all the books in the world could contain them.” Therefore some autoritative persons had to pass down by tradition what those things which were not written down were.

 

[kujo313]

tdandh26:

My question is, is Paul the teacher or is Jesus? If Jesus then my answer to what you ask what Paul means is what John says and that is “not everything which Jesus did or taught is written down, for if it were, I do not think all the books in the world could contain them.” Therefore some autoritative persons had to pass down by tradition what those things which were not written down were.

John is writing the Gospel, his witness to Jesus, the Messiah! Paul, by the Holy Ghost, is instructing believers and answering letters from them.

If there was an “unwritten tradition”, then it would show in the lives and letters of the disciples.

 

[Church_Militant]

kujo313:

John is writing the Gospel, his witness to Jesus, the Messiah! Paul, by the Holy Ghost, is instructing believers and answering letters from them.

If there was an “unwritten tradition”, then it would show in the lives and letters of the disciples.

But it’s there!
Ignatius of Antioch shows it in his letters!
CHAP. VII.–LET US STAND ALOOF FROM SUCH HERETICS.

They abstain from the Eucharist and from prayer,(7) because they confess not the Eucharist to be the flesh of our Saviour Jesus Christ, which suffered for our sins, and which the Father, of His goodness, raised up again. Those, therefore, who speak against this gift of God, incur death(11) in the midst of their disputes.

The whole letter clearly parrallels the New Testament with what it teaches. so the oral teachings of St. John, St. Peter, and the other apostles were passed down to the churches through Polycarp and Ignatius and Clement and Linus, and their writings speak of these things for the very reasons that you just used.
Pax tecum,

 

[rciadan]

carol marie:

It just seems like Mary being sinless is such a HUGE part of our faith… I just wish that of all the thousands of verses in the Bible, just one said, "Mary remained sinless… " The full of grace… can’t we all be full of grace? Like right after confession? When the Priest says our sins are forgiven… aren’t WE full of grace then?

Yes we all can be full of grace, and we are at the moment of our baptism and when we leave the confessional. The difference is that we were not preserved from the stain of origional sin. Our origional sin was washed away at our baptism.
Mary was not just free from sin. She was specifically preserved from the stain of origional sin. God effected her baptism so to speak in anticipation of her “yes”.
Mary is not only the Immaculate Conception and it helps to understand Mary when you take her other titles into account, such as her being the Ark of the Covenant. Mary is where God lived for almost a year. This makes her womb a holy place, which will remain so for all time and beyond. This holy space has been kept free of sin by the very fact that God Himself resided there and because of that so sin will ever be present.
And remember, Mary was preserved from the stain of origional sin and remained sinless through the merits of her son, who is God. It was because of God her Savior, not her own merits. Without Jesus it would not have been possigle, thus her need of the Savior.