Nancy Pelosi mistates the Church's position

[valient_Lucy]

ON THE SEPARATION OF SENSE AND STATE:
A CLARIFICATION FOR THE PEOPLE OF THE CHURCH
IN NORTHERN COLORADO
To Catholics of the Archdiocese of Denver:

Catholic public leaders inconvenienced by the abortion debate tend to take a hard line in talking about the “separation of Church and state.” But their idea of eparation often seems to work one way. Infact, some officials also seem comfortable in the role of theologian. And that warrants some interest,not as a “political” issue, but as a matter of accuracy and justice.

Speaker of the House Nancy Pelosi is a gifted public servant of strong convictions and many professional skills. Regrettably, knowledge of Catholic history and teaching does not seem to be one of them.

Interviewed on *Meet the Press *August 24, Speaker Pelosi was asked when human life begins. She said
the following:

*"I would say that as an ardent, practicing Catholic, this is an issue that I have studied for a long time.And what I know is over the centuries, the doctors of the church have not been able to make that definition. . . St. Augustine said at three months. We don’t know. The point is, is that it shouldn’t have *an impact on the woman’s right to choose."

Since Speaker Pelosi has, in her words, studied the issue “for a long time,” she must know very well one of the premier works on the subject, Jesuit John Connery’s

Abortion:

*The Development of the **Roman Catholic Perspective *(Loyola, 1977). Here’s how Connery concludes his study:

*"The Christian tradition from the earliest days reveals a firm antiabortion attitude . . . The condemnation *
*of abortion did not depend on and was not limited in any way by theories regarding the time of *fetal animation. Even during the many centuries when Church penal and penitential practice was based on the theory of delayed animation, the condemnation of abortion was never affected by it. Whatever one would want to hold about the time of animation, or when the fetus became a human being in the strict sense of the term, abortion from the time of conception was considered wrong, and the time of animation was never looked on as a moral dividing line between permissible and impermissible abortion."

Or to put it in the blunter words of the great Lutheran pastor Dietrich Bonhoeffer:

*"Destruction of the embryo in the mother’s womb is a violation of the right to live which God hasbestowed on this nascent life. To raise the question whether we are here concerned already with a *human being or not is merely to confuse the issue. The simple fact is that God certainly intended tocreate a human being and that this nascent human being has been deliberately deprived of his life. And that is nothing but murder."

Ardent, practicing Catholics will quickly learn from the historical record that from apostolic times, the
Christian tradition *overwhelmingly *held that abortion was grievously evil. In the absence of modernmedical knowledge, some of the Early Fathers held that abortion was homicide; others that it was tantamount to homicide; and various scholars theorized about when and how the unborn child might be animated or “ensouled.” But *none *diminished the unique evil of abortion as an attack on life itself, and the early Church closely associated abortion with infanticide. In short, from the beginning, the believing Christian community held that abortion was always, gravely wrong.

Of course, we now know with biological certainty exactly when human life begins. Thus, today’s religious
alibis for abortion and a so-called “right to choose” are nothing more than that - *alibis *that break radically with historic Christian and Catholic belief.

Abortion kills an unborn, developing human life. It is always gravely evil, and so are the evasions employed to justify it. Catholics who make excuses for it - hether they’re famous or not - fool only themselves and abuse the fidelity of those Catholics who do sincerely seek to follow the Gospel and live their Catholic faith.

The duty of the Church and other religious communities is moral witness. The duty of the state and its officials is to serve the common good, which is always rooted in moral truth. A proper understanding of the “separation of Church and state” does not imply a separation of faith from political life. But of course, it’s always important to know what our faith actually teaches.

Archbishop Chaput
August 25, 2008

Thanks for posting this. I just sent Archbishop Chaput an e-mail thanking him for writing this.

 

[duskyjewel]

HOLD THE PHONE!!!

A person who is merely preventing conception, even using immoral means, is not KILLING BABIES nor advocating for them to be killed. And don’t start on the ABC as abortifacient… I know that and do not argue with that. Hormonal birth control can cause early pregnancy loss/abortion.

The Church will say that a person who is sterilized or using a condom is in mortal sin, just as a person who has had an abortion or advocates abortion. But I personally see a huge amount of moral difference between preventing conception and actually killing a child that is already living.

But the embryo killed by the pill or IUD is just as alive as the child at 20 weeks gestation. So - I don’t really see a difference. If there is one, please show me, I’d love to learn about it.

~Liza

:banghead: Please READ my posts before you respond. I agree with you about life being just as human and precious at conception, as at 20 weeks, as at birth, as at 10 or 20 or 90 years. All human lives. All equal. All should be protected.

Read carefully what duskyjewel said; she is speaking specifically about “preventing conception”; therefore, there would be no embryo. She stated clearly in a previous post that she well understood the abortifacient qualities of certain methods of contraception, however.

While abortion and contraception are both intrinsic evils, preventing conception, while wrong, is clearly a lesser evil than abortion (destroying an embryo or fetus at any time, from conception on.)

Thank you, dixieagle. People read two words of a post and then go off half-cocked, disagreeing with something I never said!

I applaud the bishops for refusing to stay silent, for entering the fray in defense of life. It’s about time they stopped ceding the floor to people who lie about the Church’s teachings.

 

[TMC]

In the interest of accuracy, Pelosi is wrong about Augustine’s position, but it is not true that Augustine believed life begins at conception. Augustine said that when life begins is a topic for discussion, but that it was unlikely we would ever really know the answer. His writings suggest that like most people in his time he believed life began no later than the quickening (4-5 months). Check E85-E86.

 

[Lovemyfaith]

"Bishops respond to House Speaker Pelosi’s misrepresentation of Church teaching against abortion

WASHINGTON–Cardinal Justin F. Rigali, chairman of the U.S. Bishops’ Committee on Pro-Life Activities, and Bishop William E. Lori, chairman of the U.S. Bishops’ Committee on Doctrine, have issued the following statement:

In the course of a “Meet the Press” interview on abortion and other public issues on August 24, 2008, House Speaker Nancy Pelosi misrepresented the history and nature of the authentic teaching of the Catholic Church against abortion.

The Church has always taught that human life deserves respect from its very beginning and that procured abortion is a grave moral evil. In the Middle Ages, uninformed and inadequate theories about embryology led some theologians to speculate that specifically human life capable of receiving an immortal soul may not exist until a few weeks into pregnancy. While in canon law these theories led to a distinction in penalties between very early and later abortions, the Church’s moral teaching never justified or permitted abortion at any stage of development.

These mistaken biological theories became obsolete over 150 years ago when scientists discovered that a new human individual comes into being from the union of sperm and egg at fertilization. In keeping with this modern understanding, the Church has long taught that from the time of conception (fertilization), each member of the human species must be given the full respect due to a human person, beginning with respect for the fundamental right to life. "

usccb.org

That would be our wonderful Archbishop of Philadelphia, Cardinal Rigali. I think this should take care of any questions about the matter.

 

[estesbob]

In the interest of accuracy, Pelosi is wrong about Augustine’s position, but it is not true that Augustine believed life begins at conception. Augustine said that when life begins is a topic for discussion, but that it was unlikely we would ever really know the answer. His writings suggest that like most people in his time he believed life began no later than the quickening (4-5 months). Check E85-E86.

Augustine believed it was a mortal sent to procure abortion regardless of the how long the woman had been pregnant. The discussion about the quickening resolved around the pennance to be given to a woman who confessed to having an abortion. Augustine believed the pennance should be less for a woman who had an abortion before the quickening

 

[thereseozi]

catholicleague.com/release.php?id=1476

PELOSI DENIES CATHOLICISM OPPOSES ABORTION

August 25, 2008

On yesterday’s NBC-TV show, “Meet the Press,” House Speaker Nancy Pelosi was asked to comment on when life begins. Here is what she said: “I would say that as an ardent, practicing Catholic, this is an issue that I have studied for a long time. And what I know is, over the centuries, the doctors of the Church have not been able to make that definition.”

When Tom Brokaw told her that the Catholic Church “feels very strongly” that life begins at conception, Pelosi said, “I understand. And this is like maybe 50 years or something like that. So again, over the history of the Church, this is an issue of controversy.”

Catholic League president Bill Donohue responded as follows:

“Here is what the Catechism of the Catholic Church says: ‘Human life must be respected and protected absolutely from the moment of conception.’ It also says, ‘Since the first century the Church has affirmed the moral evil of every procured abortion. This teaching has not changed and remains unchangeable.’ Looks like Pelosi didn’t study the subject long enough. But not to worry: We are sending her a copy of Catholicism for Dummies today (the Catechism is like maybe a bit advanced).

“Whether Joe Biden is as ignorant of what his religion teaches remains to be seen. What is not in doubt is the enthusiasm which NARAL showed when he was selected to join the ticket. The radical pro-abortion group was delighted, as were the radical pro-abortion delegates to the Democratic convention: as reported in today’s New York Times, 64 percent of Americans reject abortion-on-demand, yet only 23 percent of the delegates do. It is only fitting, then, that NARAL’s president will speak today at the Convention and Planned Parenthood’s president will speak tomorrow.

“So there we have it: the man running for president on the Democratic ticket supports selective infanticide, his running mate is a pro-abortion Catholic, the delegates are wildly out of step with Americans on abortion and the Speaker of the House hasn’t a clue what her religion teaches on the subject.”

 

[Lucania]

“So there we have it: the man running for president on the Democratic ticket supports selective infanticide, his running mate is a pro-abortion Catholic, the delegates are wildly out of step with Americans on abortion and the Speaker of the House hasn’t a clue what her religion teaches on the subject.”

Priceless ! I only pray that American Catholics wake up:doh2: :newidea: .

 

[buffalo]

Priceless ! I only pray that American Catholics wake up:doh2: :newidea: .

The “lost generation” will not wake up. Anyone speaking up is only being shut out becuase for most of their life they have been poorly catechized and believe what they want anyway.

Consistent clear teaching, every day is what is required, from the pulpit, the family and school.

Pray for the youngsters to get it. Our Catholic leaders must teach, teach and teach.

 

[Deacon_Ed_B]

I applaud the Bishop and Cardinal for speaking out. I just wish the entire USCCB would do so as a body. Pray for those who are misguided and for those who guide.
Prayers & blessings
Deacon Ed B

 

[buffalo]

I guess we should petition Brokaw to invite the Bishop on this week.

 

[Lucania]

I guess we should petition Brokaw to invite the Bishop on this week.

Done. I am sure you will understand if I don’t hold my breath in anticipation for that to happen, though.

 

[PaulinVA]

It would be nice to hear it on Meet the Press, but for now, this will have to do:

adw.org/news/news.asp?ID=569&Year=2008

"On Meet the Press this past Sunday, August 23, 2008, Speaker of the House Nancy Pelosi made statements regarding the teaching of the Catholic Church, human life and abortion that were incorrect.

Speaker Pelosi responded to a question on when life begins by mentioning she was Catholic. She went on to say, “And what I know is, over the centuries, the doctors of the Church have not been able to make that definition…” After Mr. Tom Brokaw, the interviewer, pointed out that the Catholic Church feels strongly that life begins at conception, she replied, “I understand. And this is like maybe 50 years or something like that. So again, over the history of the church, this is an issue of controversy.”

We respect the right of elected officials such as Speaker Pelosi to address matters of public policy that are before them, but the interpretation of Catholic faith has rightfully been entrusted to the Catholic bishops. Given this responsibility to teach, it is important to make this correction for the record.

The Catechism of the Catholic Church is clear: the current teaching of the Catholic Church on human life and abortion is the same teaching as it was 2,000 years ago…From the beginning, the Catholic Church has respected the dignity of all human life from the moment of conception to natural death."

Let’s all email this to Pelosi’s office…

 

[comebacktome]

I’ll bet Tim Russert would’ve cited the Catechism right then and there for Ms. Pelosi.

 

[Nordar]

Let’s all email this to Pelosi’s office…

Great idea! although what really needs to happen is to have Pelosi and Wuerl on Meet The Press together. I would love to see how she would answer The Bishop, would be real interesting.

I just e mailed it to her

 

[pnewton]

Now would be the time for Pelosi to realize she has been wrong as a Catholic and line up her actions with the Church’s moral teaching. As a faithful Catholic, I am sure she will soon be in the news to announce her repentance.

 

[comebacktome]

Now would be the time for Pelosi to realize she has been wrong as a Catholic and line up her actions with the Church’s moral teaching. As a faithful Catholic, I am sure she will soon be in the news to announce her repentance.

 

[Confiteor]

Interestingly, the Archdiocese of SF web site now has a link to the Cardinal Rigali response on behalf of the USCCB, but nothing to add from the Archbishop of SF (which she represents). I suppose he could be away as there isn’t much else of recent vintage from him either. If so, what timing…

Anyway, for what it’s worth, I added my comments to Meet the Press’s email box to encourage them to let one of the prelates correct the misstatement next week. Watching it, I actually felt as though Tom Brokaw was uncomfortable being a part of Speaker Pelosi’s charade.

 

[Jennifer_J]

I applaud the Bishop and Cardinal for speaking out. I just wish the entire USCCB would do so as a body. Pray for those who are misguided and for those who guide.
Prayers & blessings
Deacon Ed B

Didn’t the all the Bishops do that here, Deacon Ed??
usccb.org/
<<Bishops respond to House Speaker Pelosi’s misrepresentation of Church teaching against abortion

WASHINGTON–Cardinal Justin F. Rigali, chairman of the U.S. Bishops’ Committee on Pro-Life Activities, and Bishop William E. Lori, chairman of the U.S. Bishops’ Committee on Doctrine, have issued the following statement:

In the course of a “Meet the Press” interview on abortion and other public issues on August 24, House Speaker Nancy Pelosi misrepresented the history and nature of the authentic teaching of the Catholic Church against abortion.

In fact, the Catechism of the Catholic Church teaches, “Since the first century the Church has affirmed the moral evil of every procured abortion. This teaching has not changed and remains unchangeable. Direct abortion, that is to say, abortion willed either as an end or a means, is gravely contrary to the moral law.” (No. 2271)

In the Middle Ages, uninformed and inadequate theories about embryology led some theologians to speculate that specifically human life capable of receiving an immortal soul may not exist until a few weeks into pregnancy. While in canon law these theories led to a distinction in penalties between very early and later abortions, the Church’s moral teaching never justified or permitted abortion at any stage of development.

These mistaken biological theories became obsolete over 150 years ago when scientists discovered that a new human individual comes into being from the union of sperm and egg at fertilization. In keeping with this modern understanding, the Church teaches that from the time of conception (fertilization), each member of the human species must be given the full respect due to a human person, beginning with respect for the fundamental right to life.

More information on the Church’s teaching on this issue can be found in our brochure “The Catholic Church is a Pro-Life Church”. PDF Text

Statement on Responsibilities of Catholics in Public Life

“Happy Are Those Who Are Called to His Supper”:
On Preparing to Receive Christ Worthily in the Eucharist>>

 

[Jennifer_J]

Let’s all email this to Pelosi’s office…

speaker.house.gov/contact/

 

[tracydaisy]

Let’s all email this to Pelosi’s office…

I just emailed Pelosi.