Nancy Pelosi mistates the Church's position

[buffalo]

Here is the Biblical way to handle the Pelosi situation:
Matthew 18
15"If your brother sins against you,** go and show him his fault, just between the two of you. If he listens to you, you have won your brother over. 16But if he will not listen, take one or two others along, so that ‘every matter may be established by the testimony of two or three witnesses.’[c] 17If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church; and if he refuses to listen even to the church, treat him as you would a pagan or a tax collector.
18"I tell you the truth, whatever you bind on earth will be[d]bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be[e] loosed in heaven.

19"Again, I tell you that if two of you on earth agree about anything you ask for, it will be done for you by my Father in heaven. 20For where two or three come together in my name, there am I with them."

This is what Jesus taught. Pelosi was told during the interview she was incorrect but didn’t budge. The Bishop told her she is incorrect she still will not budge. It is at the point where the Church needs to step in and do something. Make an example. Perhaps if the Church stands up and does actually discipline she will come back. When I was a child and my parents disciplined me I came back to them and loved them more. You discipline those you love and care about, you ignore and spoil the child you care nothing about. If the Church cares for Pelosi and others who are following her lead it needs to stand up and say you have crossed the line. Communion with the Church is forfiet to you till you repent and acknowledge your fault. There is nothing wrong with holding her to this. Jesus rebuked Peter in Public and then he praised him in Public when he came back.**

 

[estesbob]

Pelosi gets unwanted lesson in Catholic theology

By RACHEL ZOLL
P { MARGIN: 12px 0px 0px}
Politics can be treacherous. But House Speaker Nancy Pelosi walked on even riskier ground in a recent TV interview when she attempted a theological defense of her support for abortion rights.
Roman Catholic bishops consider her arguments on St. ugustine and free will so far out of line with church teaching that they have issued a steady stream of statements to correct her. The latest came Wednesday from Pittsburgh Bishop David Zubik, who said Pelosi, D-Calif., “stepped out of her political role and completely misrepresented the teaching of the Catholic Church in regard to abortion.”

It has been a harsh week of rebuke for the Democratic congresswoman, a Catholic school graduate who repeatedly has expressed pride in and love for her religious heritage.
Cardinals and archbishops in Washington, D.C., Philadelphia, New York and Denver are among those who have criticized her remarks. Archbishop George Niederauer, in Pelosi’s hometown of San Francisco, will take up the issue in the Sept. 5 edition of the archdiocesan newspaper, his spokesman said.

Sunday, on NBC’s “Meet the Press” program, Pelosi said “doctors of the church” have not been able to define when life begins. She also cited the role of individual conscience. “God has given us, each of us, a free will and a responsibility to answer for our actions,” she said. Brendan Daly, a spokesman for Pelosi, said in a statement defending her remarks that she “fully appreciates the sanctity of family” and based her views on conception on the “views of Saint Augustine, who said, ‘The law does not provide that the act (abortion) pertains to homicide, for there cannot yet be said to be a live soul in a body that lacks sensation.’”

But whether or not parishioners choose to accept it, the theology on the procedure is clear. From its earliest days, Christianity has considered abortion evil.

“This teaching has remained unchanged and remains unchangeable,” according to the Catechism of the Catholic Church. “Direct abortion, that is to say, abortion willed either as an end or a means, is gravely contrary to the moral law.”
The Rev. Douglas Milewski, a Seton Hall University theologian who specializes in Augustine, said Pelosi seems to be confusing church teaching on abortion with the theological debate over when a fetus receives a soul.
“Saint Augustine wondered about the stages of human development before birth, how this related to the question of ensoulment and what it meant for life in the Kingdom of God,” Milewski said.

Questions about ensoulment related to determining penalties under church law for early and later abortions, not deciding whether the procedure is permissible, according to the U.S. Bishops’ Committee on Pro-Life Activities.

Augustine was “quite clear on the immorality of abortion as evil violence, destructive of the very fabric of human bonds and society,” Milewski said.
**Regarding individual decision-making, the church teaches that Catholics are obliged to use their conscience in considering moral issues. However, that doesn’t mean parishioners can pick and choose what to believe and still be in line with the church. **
**Lisa Sowle Cahill, a theologian at Boston College, said conscience must be formed by Catholic teaching and philosophical insights. “It’s not just a personal opinion that you came up with randomly,” she said. **
Catholic theologians today overwhelmingly consider debate over the morality of abortion settled. Thinkers and activists who attempt to challenge the theology are often considered on the fringes of church life.

However, there is a rigorous debate over how the teaching should guide voters and public officials. Are Catholics required to choose the candidate who opposes abortion? Or can they back a politician based on his or her policies on reducing, not outlawing, the procedure?

The U.S. bishops addressed this question in their election-year public policy guide, “Forming Consciences for Faithful Citizenship.”

They said that voting for a candidate specifically because he or she supports “an intrinsic evil” such as abortion amounts to “formal cooperation in grave evil.” In some cases, Catholics may vote for a candidate with a position contrary to church teaching, but only for “truly grave moral reasons, not to advance narrow interests or partisan preferences,” according to the document.

It is a complex discussion. The Rev. Thomas Reese, senior fellow at the Woodstock Theological Center at Georgetown University, has some advice for candidates who seek to join the debate: Stick to politics - and support programs that truly help reduce the number of abortions. “It is a big mistake,” Reese said, “for politicians to talk theology.”

 

[Nordar]

This needs to happen more and needs to be known in the Media. I know some Catholics that think the same way Pelosi feels.

And is exactly why Pelosi needs to be called to account in public. She has made her believes known very publicly, she refuses to back down despite the fact that she has been told in no uncertain terms that she is wrong.
The Bishpos would not be doing their jobs if they did not address this publicly so that the ones who DO think like her are told NO she is wrong.
Pelosi has made this very public, she needs to be held accountable publicly!

 

[Deacon_Ed_B]

Is it just me or have any of you noticed that when the bishops did not act fast enough with the scandal that hit the Church, everyone said they did not do anything fast enough. But when a politician says something on national television that misrepresents the teachings of the Church, then when the bishops correct this publicly, there are those who say that this should be handled in private,. Even though this misrepresentation of Church teaching could lead many to false conclusions and possible jeopardize their souls. Go figure…
I say this fully acknowledging the bishops should have acted faster and stricter than they did is the first instance.
Prayers & blessings
Deacon Ed B

 

[Nordar]

Is it just me or have any of you noticed that when the bishops did not act fast enough with the scandal that hit the Church, everyone said they did not do anything fast enough. But when a politician says something on national television that misrepresents the teachings of the Church, then when the bishops correct this publicly, there are those who say that this should be handled in private,. Even though this misrepresentation of Church teaching could lead many to false conclusions and possible jeopardize their souls. Go figure…
I say this fully acknowledging the bishops should have acted faster and stricter than they did is the first instance.
Prayers & blessings
Deacon Ed B

No it is not just you, I was just thinking the exact same thing, in fact I was thinking how contradictory some people are!

 

[dixieagle]

Is it just me or have any of you noticed that when the bishops did not act fast enough with the scandal that hit the Church, everyone said they did not do anything fast enough. But when a politician says something on national television that misrepresents the teachings of the Church, then when the bishops correct this publicly, there are those who say that this should be handled in private,. Even though this misrepresentation of Church teaching could lead many to false conclusions and possible jeopardize their souls. Go figure…
I say this fully acknowledging the bishops should have acted faster and stricter than they did is the first instance.
Prayers & blessings
Deacon Ed B

I think this all relates to that old statement about “it all depends on whose ox is being gored” (or whose toes are being stepped on, or whether we happen to agree with the action at hand or not.)

 

[Fitswimmer]

If we go by your standards then the religious that abused the youth should also not be called out in public. Criminals should not have there names or crimes made public. How then do we protect the public from further harm?

Misstating the Church’s teaching on abortion is NOT a crime and cannot be compared to people who abused children or who KNEW that children were being abused and did nothing.

Nancy was wrong, and she continues to be wrong, but it’s just not the same thing. Those were criminal acts.

 

[TexCatholic4JMJ]

Re: Post 279, last paragraph.
The comments given by Rev. Thomas Reese are the comments
or “talking points” by the party who has pro-death in their
platform.
These types of comments from priests do a lot to keep people in
their wrong understanding of Catholic teaching. Thank God there
are priests who teach faithfully, but even a few who don’t cause
great harm.

 

[dmelosi]

Misstating the Church’s teaching on abortion is NOT a crime and cannot be compared to people who abused children or who KNEW that children were being abused and did nothing.

Nancy was wrong, and she continues to be wrong, but it’s just not the same thing. Those were criminal acts.

Misstating the Church’s teaching on abortion by a person who can pursuade people’s hearts and minds is one of the most horrific crimes to humanity that can be done.

It is making killing another human being acceptable.

The only way that you can think any thing else is to agree with her that abortion is not killing a human being.

Her continuing to do this is making killing our fellow humans more and more acceptable.

What she is doing is encouraging others to do the most selfish thing possible, take a life for convenience.

And I agree, there is no excuse for child abuse, but there is no reason that it is either or.

 

[KenEOTE]

Misstating the Church’s teaching on abortion is NOT a crime and cannot be compared to people who abused children or who KNEW that children were being abused and did nothing.

Nancy was wrong, and she continues to be wrong, but it’s just not the same thing. Those were criminal acts.

I agree those were criminal acts. But Nancy continues to be wrong and is leading others into the wrong as well. People are being misguided and the Church needs to be the LIght in the world. It needs to stand strong. If they do not make a public statement and call her out, it is not doing the Job of the Church. She made it public but saying what she said on National Television.

 

[Nordar]

Misstating the Church’s teaching on abortion is NOT a crime and cannot be compared to people who abused children or who KNEW that children were being abused and did nothing.

Nancy was wrong, and she continues to be wrong, but it’s just not the same thing. Those were criminal acts.

Abortion may not be a legal crime but is very much a criminal act. Killing a baby is most certainly a crime in Catholic teaching, it is one of the ultimate mortal sins. Abusing children is a henious crime and a legal criminal act. However to say that Abortion can not be compared to the abuse of children is erronious.

 

[estesbob]

Abortion may not be a legal crime but is very much a criminal act. Killing a baby is most certainly a crime in Catholic teaching, it is one of the ultimate mortal sins. Abusing children is a henious crime and a legal criminal act. However to say that Abortion can not be compared to the abuse of children is erronious.

If Nancy Pelosi had said it was okay to kill seven-year-olds because we don’t know when life begins I am sure there would be outrage from all quarters. I’m also sure we would be seen posts that seem to be saying the Catholic Church should mind its own business because of the homosexual priest scandal.

 

[buffalo]

If Nancy Pelosi had said it was okay to kill seven-year-olds because we don’t know when life begins I am sure there would be outrage from all quarters. I’m also sure we would be seen posts that seem to be saying the Catholic Church should mind its own business because of the homosexual priest scandal.

You want a real reaction - say its OK to kill 7 year old pets!

We had a TV news report last night about animal negligence and the secondary part of the story was they were also charged with child endangerment.

 

[Nordar]

If Nancy Pelosi had said it was okay to kill seven-year-olds because we don’t know when life begins I am sure there would be outrage from all quarters. I’m also sure we would be seen posts that seem to be saying the Catholic Church should mind its own business because of the homosexual priest scandal.

It seems that no one should repremand these Catholic politicians who misrepresent the Church by saying abortion is Ok. However the abuse scandal is constantly used against The Church ( it was horrific), but it seems the ones who do not want Pelosi brought to task for this are ignoring the fact that not only is abortion against Catholic teaching, it is the ultimate form of child abuse!

 

[maggiemay2u]

Misstating the Church’s teaching on abortion is NOT a crime and cannot be compared to people who abused children or who KNEW that children were being abused and did nothing.

Nancy was wrong, and she continues to be wrong, but it’s just not the same thing. Those were criminal acts.

Aren’t both crimes of morality, Fitz? The Church is often on the other side of what the secular world holds legal. Pornography is not a crime, but it is morally wrong. Prostitution is legal, gay marriage (in a couple of places) is legal. There are lots of examples.

Our bishops are called to recognize and correct aberrant behavior among the faithful. In the case of public figures who give scandal by their action, they are most likely counseled in private. If private counsel fails to impact the individual, and that person is publicly called to account, who is responsible for the public action?

 

[Nordar]

You want a real reaction - say its OK to kill 7 year old pets!

We had a TV news report last night about animal negligence and the secondary part of the story was they were also charged with child endangerment.

Sadly that is so true,

 

[stbruno]

Bishops respond to House Speaker Pelosi’s misrepresentation of Church teaching against abortion **
** taken from usccb.org website

WASHINGTON–Cardinal Justin F. Rigali, chairman of the U.S. Bishops’ Committee on Pro-Life Activities, and Bishop William E. Lori, chairman of the U.S. Bishops’ Committee on Doctrine, have issued the following statement:

In the course of a “Meet the Press” interview on abortion and other public issues on August 24, House Speaker Nancy Pelosi misrepresented the history and nature of the authentic teaching of the Catholic Church against abortion.

In fact, the Catechism of the Catholic Church teaches, “Since the first century the Church has affirmed the moral evil of every procured abortion. This teaching has not changed and remains unchangeable. Direct abortion, that is to say, abortion willed either as an end or a means, is gravely contrary to the moral law.” (No. 2271)

In the Middle Ages, uninformed and inadequate theories about embryology led some theologians to speculate that specifically human life capable of receiving an immortal soul may not exist until a few weeks into pregnancy. While in canon law these theories led to a distinction in penalties between very early and later abortions, the Church’s moral teaching never justified or permitted abortion at any stage of development.

These mistaken biological theories became obsolete over 150 years ago when scientists discovered that a new human individual comes into being from the union of sperm and egg at fertilization. In keeping with this modern understanding, the Church teaches that from the time of conception (fertilization), each member of the human species must be given the full respect due to a human person, beginning with respect for the fundamental right to life.

More information on the Church’s teaching on this issue can be found in our brochure “The Catholic Church is a Pro-Life Church”. PDF Text

• Statement on Responsibilities of Catholics in Public Life

 

[maggiemay2u]

Congressman Higgins appeals to the Catholic voter in WNY becuase he is Irish and Catholic. He is pro-death. He votes pro-death in Congress yet is seen as a devout Catholic and sucks in the voter. He was called out.

This is what happened:

Bishop and Priest Hasten to Apologize to Pro-Abortion Politician for Homily Calling Him to Account

Congressman voted for embryonic stem cell research and allowing abortions in military hospitals

I wrote an email to the diocese to voice my disappointment in the actions of the pastor and bishop.

It’s an interesting website, by the way. The order of voting information available is curious, to say the least.

I remember a radio show from awhile back where the members of conservative parishes claimed their church was being closed, despite being better attended then the “progressive” parishes that were to remain open. If my memory is accurate, it explains a lot. Any Buffaloans to enlighten me?

 

[Nordar]

Bishops respond to House Speaker Pelosi’s misrepresentation of Church teaching against abortion **
** taken from usccb.org website

WASHINGTON–Cardinal Justin F. Rigali, chairman of the U.S. Bishops’ Committee on Pro-Life Activities, and Bishop William E. Lori, chairman of the U.S. Bishops’ Committee on Doctrine, have issued the following statement:

In the course of a “Meet the Press” interview on abortion and other public issues on August 24, House Speaker Nancy Pelosi misrepresented the history and nature of the authentic teaching of the Catholic Church against abortion.

In fact, the Catechism of the Catholic Church teaches, “Since the first century the Church has affirmed the moral evil of every procured abortion. This teaching has not changed and remains unchangeable. Direct abortion, that is to say, abortion willed either as an end or a means, is gravely contrary to the moral law.” (No. 2271)

In the Middle Ages, uninformed and inadequate theories about embryology led some theologians to speculate that specifically human life capable of receiving an immortal soul may not exist until a few weeks into pregnancy. While in canon law these theories led to a distinction in penalties between very early and later abortions, the Church’s moral teaching never justified or permitted abortion at any stage of development.

These mistaken biological theories became obsolete over 150 years ago when scientists discovered that a new human individual comes into being from the union of sperm and egg at fertilization. In keeping with this modern understanding, the Church teaches that from the time of conception (fertilization), each member of the human species must be given the full respect due to a human person, beginning with respect for the fundamental right to life.

More information on the Church’s teaching on this issue can be found in our brochure “The Catholic Church is a Pro-Life Church”. PDF Text

• Statement on Responsibilities of Catholics in Public Life

 

[LRThunder]

Misstating the Church’s teaching on abortion is NOT a crime and cannot be compared to people who abused children or who KNEW that children were being abused and did nothing.

Nancy was wrong, and she continues to be wrong, but it’s just not the same thing. Those were criminal acts.

Misstating the Church’s teachings may not be a secular crime, but it’s no less devious than a clergy member committing abuse.