Nathan Phillips rally attempted to disrupt Mass at DC’s National Shrine

[Jeanne_S]

How did they misbehave.?

 

[MagdalenaRita]

but I take strong exception to your characterization of my remarks as vilifying the young men.

I am very surprised and disappointed that that criticism is equated with vilification.

I am sorry if my using the word villify offended. I thought I should explain. The word has many meanings but in the context of our conversations and the Covington situation, I meant: to blame, to insult, to criticize, to speak ill of, or discredit. These are all synonyms of villify.

 

[FirstFiveEighth]

Because they were turned away from the Basilica by security. No one claimed they were able to get into the Cathedral, not that they attempted to do so.

 

[FirstFiveEighth]

Indeed. In all of those dictionaries the descriptions of “poor behavior” are the very last description of the adjective, after all the ones I listed. And as you will note, they describe inanimate things: handwriting, breath, accent, weather, etc. When describing behavior, the other descriptors apply. Cruel, evil, monstrous, etc. Context matters.

But, if you simply meant to say that the boys behaved poorly, feel free to do so. While the boys could have chosen a very few other approaches to being verbally harassed and having people get up in their personal space such as just continuing to stand there and listen to the insults, I think you will find that you are one of very few people who believe that chanting school cheers is “atrocious”. That comes across as “vilifying”. There is a line I am trying to remember that applies here…something like…”she was asking for it”…

 

[dvdjs]

Indeed. In all of those dictionaries the descriptions of “poor behavior” are the very last description of the adjective, after all the ones I listed. And as you will note, they describe inanimate things: handwriting, breath, accent, weather, etc.

ISTM that behavior is akin to speech, imitation, or ever writing. In any case, when one wants to know which of the definitions of some word a person has in mind, it is arguably better to ask than assume.

Context matters.

Yes it does. I wrote at some length in the closed thread what I thought was lacking in the conduct of this group of boys. And even responded to specific questions about proposed sanctions against them. All of that context matters.

I think you will find that you are one of very few people who believe …

I am not sure how true that is.
But my point was a simple one.

The boys felt the need to respond to the taunts of the off-beat Black Israelites. The chaperones should have simply told them to pay no heed. Instead there responded and escalated the tension. When Mr Philips walked over to tone things down, they, as children, should have deferred, given ground, listened, and certainly not mocked.

I may be old fashioned, but I see the respect for elders to be a very important component of civil culture. It really baffles me that this perspective is met with such objection.

 

[Allie1]

When Mr Philips walked over to tone things down, they, as children, should have deferred, given ground, listened, and certainly not mocked.

This is where I think the defense of Mr Phillips fall short, in his initial interview regarding this event. He described the teenage kids as “beasts” and the black protesters as “their prey.” When looking at the videos in total, this description is completely fallacious. Moreover the man went on to change his story additional times. To be blunt, I don’t believe Nathan Phillips in any capacity. Nor do I believe that he went up to a kid and banged a drum inches from his face to “tone things down.” As a logical person, if I was ever afraid of a physical altercation with you (for example) …the last thing I would do to “tone things down” is walk right up to you and bang a drum inches from your face. I actually would look at such behavior as a provocation, and I am truly impressed with Nick Sandmann, for responding the way he did.

 

[pnewton]

I am complaining about him.

Me too. Pretty much everyone is. I do not get the accusation.

 

[pnewton]

The boys did not misbehave.
Claiming they did so, particularly in light of the events, is vilification.

“Vilification” is such a strong word. One can disagree on the way they acted, or think some things could have been better without vilifying them. Claiming they misbehaved is not vilification.

 

[0Scarlett_nidiyilii]

I challenge every Catholic that reads this to pray one decade for him today.

You know what? I will.

 

[CradleRC58]

Deo gratis Jesus didn’t teach such.

When the initial news article was posted by the BBC, I confess I had a knee-jerk reaction and pointed a finger at the youth group.

Then when the facts surfaced I felt ashamed that I haven’t learned to wait a few days to react to news articles.

Speaking for myself, I think praying for Mr Phillips is something I may owe him at this point. And frankly I have displayed worse behaviour than him in the past.

ymmv

 

[dvdjs]

This is where I think the defense of Mr Phillips fall short,

I gave no defense of Mr. Phillips, whatsoever. His defense, or lack thereof, is completely irrelevant to the point I made.

 

[petra22]

But wait, I missed the thread that is closed. I wonder what you saw that was misbehavior of the high school children???

 

[mjm076]

So here’s a video of footage from Youtube related to this article.

 

[dvdjs]

But wait, I missed the thread that is closed.

The thread is closed, but not erased, in any case I summarized in post #46.

 

[MagdalenaRita]

Vilification” is such a strong word. One can disagree on the way they acted, or think some things could have been better without vilifying them. Claiming they misbehaved is not vilification.

So, I am the one who said villify first. It probably was too strong of a word. My meaning behind using the word was: to blame a person, to criticize or speak ill of someone. All of which are synonyms of villify.

I guess I am just very bothered by what happened to these youth. From what I see they were being bullied by the Black Israelites and then bullied by the Native Americans.
IMHO it looks as though Nathan Phillips was trying to scare Nick Sandmann. If he was meaning to bring peace, he should have spoke kindly, as he was the one who approached the youth and instigated the whole event and now has put children’s lives in danger.

If Nick Sandmann was my son I would have been very proud of him for standing there politely and listening to the man.

I also would have been proud of the others that despite the horrific insults hurled at them they stayed right where they were told to stay.

 

[petra22]

I have to tell you that when I saw the clip of the confrontation my first thought was WHERE are the chaperones?
I’ve been on field trips with teens and a chaperone has the duty to protect and defend. Why was there no adult stepping in between the boy and the Indian chief??? Not a good look… That boy should not have been left to deal with the onslaught. Still, I think he did a good job of standing. He was not disrespectful, his friends were laughing and causing a disturbance for him so naturally he smiled some… The Native American was out of line… unless he sees that boy as someone who should not even be there. An intruder, a white deplorable Catholic…

 

[prayerrider]

Predictably, there was a bomb scare at the diocese offices today.

 

[dvdjs]

I have to tell you that when I saw the clip of the confrontation my first thought was WHERE are the chaperones?

I agree.

his friends were laughing and causing a disturbance

I agree.

But I don’t agree on with what you are saying about what a child should do when approached by an adult, let alone you - shall I say villification - of the “chief”. I don’t see it as optional for children to defer to elders.
It wold appear that the chaperones didn’t think that Mr. Phillips was a danger, and also didn’t think that the child needed to show deference.

 

[Allie1]

I gave no defense of Mr. Phillips, whatsoever. His defense, or lack thereof, is completely irrelevant to the point I made.

What actions did Nathan Phillips exhibit to “tone things down?” moreover, with his lies, he’s the guy who blew this whole thing up into a firestorm

In what ways would you describe the kids not listening to him? Nathan Phillips wasn’t there to start a dialogue with them. He even had the opportunity to dialogue with Nick Sandmann who he was standing face to face with. Nathan Phillips presence there was not to dialogue. What do you expect the kids are obligated to listen to and in what ways are they wrong for not listening to what?

What ground do you think that these kids needed to give? I don’t understand this point
Also I do not see these kids as mocking him

 

[MagdalenaRita]

So here’s a video of footage from Youtube related to this article.

Okay, then. So after watching this video you can’t help but now question and suspect, did they approach those children because of their being Catholic.