Nation Of Illegitimates

[Peace-bwu]

deaconswife:

Several years ago I was at the Smithsonian’s Museum of American History. They had an exhibit on life at the time of the Revolutionary War. The one fact that shocked me was that in the 1770’s approximately 25% of the population was born out of wedlock. There’s nothing new under the sun.

Did they give a reason for this?

Was it particularly high during the war?

There are historically baby booms surrounding wars, mainly because emotions and fear run high, young people in love thinking they may never see each other again, or thinking they will get married as soon as the soldier returns. Did it give the birth rate for married women, was it also exceptionally high? I would be willing to bet that the birth rate for both married and unmarried women was exceptionally high during and just after the war.

Or many of these children could have been born to prostitutes. Prostitution also runs high during war time. Men who feel they have no hope, sometimes turn to drugs, alcohol and sex to numb their fear and pain, and many women are so poor they are tempted to make a living by selling their bodies.

The sins of war also lead to social corruption. It would take some serious analysis to compare this birth rate during war time and the birth rate related to artificial birth control.

 

[Lilyofthevalley]

I would rather a girl have all the support she can after she is pregnant. Anything to help her to not feel pressured to abort her baby!

What about the girls who intentionally get pregnant because they know the system will help them?

 

[Jay74]

gksaoh:

While GWB is promoting his snake oil remedies for getting rich by privatizing Social Security

An off-topic, cheap shot at the president.

You don’t like GWB’s social security plan? Fine–don’t participate, it’s completely voluntary. But don’t’ advocate depriving others of chosing to participate if they want.

 

[Jay74]

Lilyofthevalley:

I would rather a girl have all the support she can after she is pregnant. Anything to help her to not feel pressured to abort her baby!

What about the girls who intentionally get pregnant because they know the system will help them?

A lot of people got mad at me on another thread for making this very point. They evidently thought my point was based on animosity towards those who fall pregnant accidentally, which couldn’t have been further from the truth. In fact, compassion for such incidents was very close to home to me.

You see, I have two younger sisters. The oldest of the two became pregant as a teenager. She was praised for not getting an abortion. They threw her a huge baby shower. They helped her get and pay for an apartment. Etc. This was all with the intent – noble, I will add – to make sure the baby was taken care of.

Well, my other sister, four years younger, saw all this. She saw the party, saw the gifts, saw my other sister being “honored.” She fell pregnant herself. She didn’t do it on purpose, but she admitted she was less cautious after seeing how her older sister was treated.

We, correctly, don’t want to drive someone to an abortion (if murdering the unborn wasn’t legal, this would be less of a problem). On the other hand, I think we have an obligation to our society, and to the unborn who will suffer because of illegitimacy, to be sure we don’t send the message that illegitimacy isn’t a very sad thing.

Blessings to all.

 

[Peace-bwu]

Lilyofthevalley:

I would rather a girl have all the support she can after she is pregnant. Anything to help her to not feel pressured to abort her baby!

What about the girls who intentionally get pregnant because they know the system will help them?

I can’t control the stupid things people do all I can do is promote what is best for the unborn, and at the same time promote chastity. There is much work to do. I can understand the objection, but this is a two part issue, and the first responsibility is toward saving women and babies.

Jay, didn’t your family explain to your younger sister that it was not an ideal situation? Surely she also saw your sister struggling with no husband. I can understand the objection, but the Welfare policies that put a cap on how many children a woman could have, etc. promote abortion, and so do the school policies that take various school privileges away from pregnant girls, they are forced to choose between opportunity and thier baby… granted they had that choice before conception, but policies that encourage abortion are unethical and do not solve any problems, they simply promote abortions. people will still do immature and irresponsible things, and if they are selfish enough to get pregnant chances are they are selfish enough to have an abortion if they have to give up school. women deserve better than abortion.

We have a sick culture. It would be better if we could teach real values such as abstinance and help girls to have a better self esteem, but unfortunately that is an uphill battle. Most schools teach a relative morality, so bandaids are needed after the mistakes are made. We have to do both at the same time.

 

[manualman]

None of God’s children are any less “legitimate” than any other.

This is an awful term that needs to be stomped out.

Don’t misunderstand me. We also need to stomp out fornication, but in the meantime our lingo should not put unfair derogatory labels on innocent children.

 

[katieq]

JUst a quick mention regarding a previously posted statement about girls getting pregnant because they “want attention.” Often what they really want is love, not simple attention (though in some families, attention has to suffice). Perhaps we should also be looking at parental support and upringing rather than focusing soley on the girl who get’s pregnant. This is meant, by no means, to condone intercourse out of wedlock, but we must also look to those who are raising these individuals. In our own lives, we perhaps we can learn to concentrate on setting up a good social network, supplying support and love for those who may need it, etc. But now I’m just rambling
God bless,
k

 

[Mimi]

JUst a quick mention regarding a previously posted statement about girls getting pregnant because they “want attention.” Often what they really want is love, not simple attention (though in some families, attention has to suffice). Perhaps we should also be looking at parental support and upringing rather than focusing soley on the girl who get’s pregnant. This is meant, by no means, to condone intercourse out of wedlock, but we must also look to those who are raising these individuals. In our own lives, we perhaps we can learn to concentrate on setting up a good social network, supplying support and love for those who may need it, etc. But now I’m just rambling
God bless,
k

Women (girls) give in to sex to feel loved; men (boys) say they love to get sex.

I’m forty-something and know for a fact that hindsight is 20/20! I’ve made a few mistakes and thank G_d that he’s let me live long enough to turn things around and live for Him and not for myself. Still working on that …

I do think our society sends a powerful message that being sexy (for girls/young women more than for guys). I’m sick of most of what I see portrayed on TV. Crime shows are titillating (CSI; Law and Order, SVU for example) in showing and telling of the details of sex crimes. Sometimes the bad guy gets caught, sometimes not. Commercials for Victoria’s Secret; Sports Illustrated; Bad Girls Gone Wild, etc.

I teach private lessons to young people, some of whom are in high school. I know they watch shows like Beverly Hills 90210 (which is off now, but was v popular), and Friends. Well, I decided to watch Friends for a few episodes in rerun to see what it was like. Was it really a witty comedy, well written? No. It portrayed young men and women in their mid to late 20’s, all with jobs and obviously living quite well and mostly in harmony. One blonde female dimwit, one male brunette dimwit amongst the cast. Having had rommates/housemates in college, I know this is not usually the case in real life. Their apt is well furnished, they are well dressed, and meet regularly at the coffee shop to catch up on who’s dating who. One of the characters gets pg, and I don’t know what happened to the baby; I’m pretty sure she gives birth, but not likely is married. The one played by Jennifer Anniston almost gets married, but not to the guy who really loves her. Then, she finds she’s pg (by the guy who really loves her, Ross), has the baby, looks forward to being a mom - don’t really know if abortion is even brought up on the show, maybe hinted at. While in labor, Ross comes to see her, wants to marry her, and she is confused (raging hormones maybe??). The way it is played, you can tell he is just aching for her to say “yes!” and melt into his arms. He truly loves her, but she keeps pushing him away. The Independent Woman - I-can-do-this-all-by-myself. I keep seeing this in sit-coms and it’s probably in soaps, too. I am sure this is a case of life influencing art which, in this case, may have some influence on how people expect to live their lives; what is viewed as ‘normal’.

Getting down off my soapbox!
Peace,
Mimi

 

[LindaS]

IIRC, recently, Bill Cosby spoke out to the African-American community regarding this very issue. He placed responsibility on parents to make sure their children got a good education and did not get caught in the “let’s have a baby” thing. He got hammered. People just don’t want to hear that there is responsibility involved in raising children to adulthood. How sad.
Peace.
Linda

 

[Lilyofthevalley]

manualman:

None of God’s children are any less “legitimate” than any other.

This is an awful term that needs to be stomped out.

Don’t misunderstand me. We also need to stomp out fornication, but in the meantime our lingo should not put unfair derogatory labels on innocent children.

:yup: :clapping: :tiphat: