National Sunday Law Takes Affect!

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Well, personally, I plan to:D jump into my time machine & hightail it back to the 21st century, leaving the Puritans to fight it out over witches & spectral evidence & skirt lengths & all that miscellaneous 17th century carp.
And yourself???:rolleyes:
CARP…!?

What’s so special about 17th century Carp?

Is is especially TASTEY?
 
So it’s pretty obvious that the final great controversy will be over
God’s Law, and in that law only the Sabbath issue, since nobody
quibbles about lying, stealing, murdering, and adultery,although
they will certainly try to quibble more and more.
Oh really?

“Current issues in…”

Lying: people have always debated whether we must ALWAYS tell the truth. Can there be a “noble lie” to spare ones feelings? Today, A LOT of people say “yes.” Hence, we have Christians who think its better to remain silent on the truth (a type of lie) or to endorse someones action, despite the fact that they know it to be immoral, to avoid “hurting their feelings” or “appearing judgmental.”

Stealing: Stop by the head quaters of any record or video label and ask them what they think about music and video piracy, they’ll tell you it’s stealing and a crime. Go to any college campus and ask a random student what they think, and they’ll call it “sharing” and that it is perfectly acceptable.

Murder: abortion. Game;set; match. Millions say it’s murder. Millions say it’s not.

Adultery: watch any court show during the day. Judge Alex, Divorce Court, etc.

I don’t know what is more amazing, that you seem to be so detached from reality that we have a consensus on these issues, or that you think that evidence that the early Church was Catholic , worshiped on Sundays, and celebrated the Eucharist actually SUPPORTS your argument. That post was tantamount to saying “If the ground is not wet, then it did not rain. But the ground is wet, therefore it must not have rained!”
 
Exactly…You all follow Church and traditions of man. Hey just as you follow Sunday around the world, we follow Sabbath around the world. 7 days runs different here than it does on the otherside. No one said that it has to be the whole world at the sametime.
So… its not sabbath everywhere at the same time. So, you have to decide when sabbath begins and ends where you are living. So, you do the best you can and hope you got it right.

Yet Sunday keepers are wrong for meeting for worship on Sunday, simply because anything called Sunday cannot be Saturday… yet if I live east of Jerusalem and west of the dateline, then i’m probably keeping the right day if I go to church on Sunday, but maybe I can’t call it Sunday, because that might give the wrong impression to someone, so sabbatarians go to church on Saturday east of Jerusalem and west of the dateline, knowing its probably the wrong day, but that if they went to church on Sunday, oh my goodness, how would that LOOK. :confused:

You are the one saying we must worship on Saturday… yet you can’t tell me how to be sure i’ve found it. You sidestepped this question like every other sabbatarian I’ve talked too. The Bible is not specific on exactly what ‘seventh’ day means, how exactly you can identify it wherever in the world our out of this world you might be.
Yes an SDA help me with my studies. In fact he is my brother-in-law. But you cannot back up your statements from scripture, oh wait Sunday is mentioned how manytimes? Sabbath is mentioned more in the NT than the first day of the week is. Did Jesus tell you that Sunday is the day…NO!! Men did! Oh to the post of Jesus following the feasts, of course he did he was a Jew too. He wasn’t dead yet, he didn’t fulfill the Mosaic laws yet.
Right, the law had not been fulfilled yet. There is not one command that Christians should observe the sabbath AFTER the law was fulfilled. NOT ONE.

However many times the sabbath is mentioned in the New Testament, there is no command for CHRISTIANS to keep it, quite the contrary, we shouldn’t judge each other over what day we worship. As I explained, Catholics are obligated to attend mass on Sunday because the Church asks that of us. We are NOT obligated to keep a Saturday sabbath (although we may do so if we choose), because we are not under the old covenant. Our sabbath rest is today and all days, in Jesus, not in a slice of time that only comes round once a week.

You have to rely on your ideas about what scripture means, or take someone else’s opinion as fact. I have a Church with the authority to clarify questions about doctrine without having to resort to weighing different opinions and picking the one I like best. Who guarantees that what we like or agree with is indeed Truth?

continued next post…
 
Continued from previous post.
No I was not a drug addict, but I did experiment with drugs, and I was poor too. Sorry about the typo, I left the church at 16 not 19. But I paid attention in church. Catholic is a hard pill to swallow alright, that’s because most of it’s doctrines are not in the bible. A few texts taken out of context, anyone can do. You are expected to believe what the church tells you in order to believe. At least SDA’s show you in the bible everything they teach. Oh yeah I forgot Catholics have the Apocrypha the uninspired doctrine. Need proof do some searches the only people who back up the Aprocrypha are Catholics…HMMM
I’m sorry you had a hard time in life, but Catholic doctrine is very biblical, all you have to do is look at it with a willingness to understand it from a Catholic perspective. Hard to do for a protestant. Yet protestants bring their own assumptions and meanings to their undersanding of scripture. How many times as a protestant did I fall into the trap someone (wish I could remember who) described as the ‘of course we know’ habit. When reading a scripture that seemingly contradicts something else, or seems hard to understand, the little 'of course we know that…" tape plays in their mind and they dismiss it without really thinking it through. Read about Jesus giving the Apostles the power to forgive sins? no problem, “of course we know” only God can forgive sin…" and then move on to something more comfortable to think about… Read that St. Paul says the sabbath is only a shadow? no problem, “of course we know” thats only refering to the ceremonial sabbaths…" ( hm… try to find ‘ceremonial sabbaths’ in the bible)

Problem is, all those ‘of course we knows’ are every bit as much a tradition of man as you claim Catholicism is. The difference is, do you know where those ideas came from, and what authority the originators had to decide those things for you?

Without authority, how can you identify a reliable source of teaching and instruction?

I was an SDA for many years growing up, I attended their schools in high school and College. What they teach is an interpretation that depends on a person accepting their versions of history and methods of scripture study. They also teach a version of Catholicism that is distorted from the actual teachings of the Church. That was what started my own research and journey out of Adventism. If the Adventist church has to distort and misrepresent Catholic history and teaching to justify their theology, how can it really be true?

SDAs are happy to ‘show you in the bible’ . Yes… in a carefully controlled way that presents their views. Yes… out of their own version of the bible called the ‘Clear Word’ or in heavily footnoted KJV versions they publish with their own cross referencing and notes to guide you into their pre conceived conclusions.

No one comes up with ideas like the Investigative Judgement, or that E.G. White is the latter day prophet all on their own. Think about it.

MarysRoses
 
I just got a “National Sunday Law” booklet in the mail.

It’s a hoot!:rotfl:
 
Please go back and read what is written on the front of that sites home page. thank u
alright, here goes.

I am happy that someone posted that question in this forum. I tried so hard to read through all the comments but i couldn’t. it just didn’t seem to be proceeding objectively. more like attack, attack, attack.

Now, i knw i run the risk of going over some points that were previously made but please bear with.
i am jumping into the hornets nest.

Lets go!

Have you ever seen a counterfeit $99 bill before?

Do you honestly think that satan does’nt knw how to wage war? Hasn’t he been doing it for over 6000 years?

In these, the last days, there are only two groups of people.
Code:
    1) those who accept the mark of the beast
and 2) those who keep the commandments of God and have the testimony of Jesus Christ (the spirit/ gift of prophesy)

Rev. 14, 19:10

You will not find such a bill because a real one doesn’t exist.
the counterfeit of the Lords day as knwn by the world today was brought about primarily by the beast of Rev. 14 and the christians of the first who feared the lost of their lives by the hands of a persecuting Roman government who, at the time slaughtering all jews all juwdaizers. so they hid from their own deaths but the Waldenses fled to the mountains where the were kept by the hand of God. Rev. 12:6.

For centuries the roman government did this even when the dragon gave the papacy it throne and great authority the continued their massacre of those who resisted them. up rooting the Vandals and the other two horns that stood in their way of gaining full control. Dan. 7:8. more than 50,000,000 people were slain in the dark ages. why did the Roman reign lasted only 1260 years as predicted by the bible ( 538ad to 1798) when the French general place the then pope in exile.

consider and tell me this. why do you worship a man who claims to be the Vicar of Christ that has explicitly held that the church has authority to change Gods law and hold sunday, the counterfeit sabbath, as the of its great eccleasiastical Mark. REad Dan 7 especially vr 25.

i do not presume in any way that this is easy to swallow but if u break one of God’s command an teach men to do the same … Matt 5: 19.

Oh, this colo. 2:16 thing you all love to quote should be viewed in light of Lev 23 that explains what sabbath days are.

i have a lot more to say but i gotta go to church. i will pick up when i get back. in the mean time check out

Ezek 20:20
Isaiah 58: 13-14

read the whole chapter(s)
oh if you are in Christ, you are Abraham’s seed. The sabbath in a memorial of creation. Blessed and holy. What God bless, let no man curse. Mark 7 :7
 
Please go back and read what is written on the front of that sites home page. thank u
So it’s an anti-ellen white site. This some how disproves what it says? What a surprise that those opposed to ellen white and the SDAs will make a website with articles detailing why their wrong :rolleyes:
 
alright, here goes.
In these, the last days, there are only two groups of people.
Code:
    1) those who accept the mark of the beast
and 2) those who keep the commandments of God and have the testimony of Jesus Christ (the spirit/ gift of prophesy)

Rev. 14, 19:10

You will not find such a bill because a real one doesn’t exist.
the counterfeit of the Lords day as knwn by the world today was brought about primarily by the beast of Rev. 14 …
Dude, if you’re going to misquote scripture, at least reference the right chapter. It’s Rev 13.
For centuries the roman government did this even when the dragon gave the papacy it throne and great authority the continued their massacre of those who resisted them.
Prove that the “dragon gave rome the papacy.” The burden of proof is on you. can you prove it through history, rather than manipulating Scripture?
more than 50,000,000 people were slain in the dark ages.
Again, prove this number.
consider and tell me this. why do you worship a man who claims to be the Vicar of Christ that has explicitly held that the church has authority to change Gods law and hold sunday, the counterfeit sabbath, as the of its great eccleasiastical Mark. REad Dan 7 especially vr 25.
First, Catholics do not worship the pope. If you continue to spout this dribble, people will continue to ignore you. If you want to refute Catholic theology, refute what we actually believe.

“And upon the first day of the week, when the disciples came together to break bread, Paul preached unto them, ready to depart on the morrow; and continued his speech until midnight.” Acts 20:7 KJV. Sure, the Church changed the day of worship-but this was done by the Apostles.

Did the early Christians continue to worship on the Sabbath? Sure! Did they worship on Sunday, too? You bet! The Sunday worship was specifically designed to remember the resurrection.

What you SDAs just DO NOT understand is that Catholics are called to worship EVERY SINGLE DAY OF THE WEEK! Sunday’s are to SPECIFICALLY to remember the resurrection, the most important event in Christianity, so that is why THAT DAY is set aside. But other days, esp. Friday, have special meaning, too, as remembering it as the day that Christ died.
 
So it’s an anti-ellen white site. This some how disproves what it says? What a surprise that those opposed to ellen white and the SDAs will make a website with articles detailing why their wrong :rolleyes:
Let’s be fair…

There are plenty of anti-catholic sites…

Is it true that “anti” sites are wrong? YES
Is it true that ALL “anti” sites are wrong? NO

However a strong “anti” source will not be seen as an “authorative” {sp?} source by the other half of the discussion.http://www.clicksmilies.com/s1106/travesmilies/smilie_quatschen1.gif

“Anti” Catholic Sources are not accepted by Catholics as “prove”.
(After all we know the garbage it is loaded with)http://www.clicksmilies.com/s1106/travesmilies/smilie_muell1.gif

So I’m sure the same would be true for Adventist regarding sources that are seen as “Anti” Adventist or “Anti” Ellen White……

I’m sure there are other sites that can critic the TRUTH without being an “anti” site.
(Anti-Catholic or Anti-Adventist)


[SIGN]http://www.clicksmilies.com/s1106/t...clicksmilies.com/s1106/trave_abc/smilie_d.gif BLESS[/SIGN]
 
You will not find such a bill because a real one doesn’t exist.
the counterfeit of the Lords day as knwn by the world today was brought about primarily by the beast of Rev. 14 and the christians of the first who feared the lost of their lives by the hands of a persecuting Roman government who, at the time slaughtering all jews all juwdaizers. so they hid from their own deaths but the Waldenses fled to the mountains where the were kept by the hand of God. Rev. 12:6.
OOPs - Waldenses were not Sabbath keepers as a Church. Perhaps you could give us another group to prove your point. Chapter 4 of EGW’s Great Controversy is not historical - it is all wrong.
 
Dude, if you’re going to misquote scripture, at least reference the right chapter. It’s Rev 13.

Prove that the “dragon gave rome the papacy.” The burden of proof is on you. can you prove it through history, rather than manipulating Scripture?

Again, prove this number.

wow!

first of all i didn’t miss quote the scripture. the mark of the beast bit in deed in chap 13, however the two groups i spoke of are found where?

the burden of proof of that number is not on me. but it’s for u to prove that it wasn’t more.

by the way let me make this clear. I am Not Anti anyone. i have nothing against individuals, it’s that i do not worship idols, dead people, popes(past or present). I have no need to fair any of you. it’s that this system of beliefs you hold dear are not scriptural. i have friends from all faith based religions and agnostics too.

you can throw stones at the sabbath time. whether u like it or not the only reason the world today has a seven day week still is because of creation. yes attempts were made to change the weekly cycle and governments and pope have changed the calender but the seven day cycle still stands. again whether you are in China or Jamaica (where I am) doesn’t matter. we all knw that the sun sets in different places at differnt times but we all knw how to count 1 2 3 4 5 6 7.

Did the early Christians continue to worship on the Sabbath? Sure! Did they worship on Sunday, too? You bet! The Sunday worship was specifically designed to remember the resurrection.

What you SDAs just DO NOT understand is that Catholics are called to worship EVERY SINGLE DAY OF THE WEEK! Sunday’s are to SPECIFICALLY to remember the resurrection, the most important event in Christianity, so that is why THAT DAY is set aside. But other days, esp. Friday, have special meaning, too, as remembering it as the day that Christ died.
So you build a entire empire on one verse? Christ’s birth was foretold centuries before His birth and as He declares mat. 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to
destroy, but to fulfil. 18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no
wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. 19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least
commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but
whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven

and where are in the bible (NT )we can find a charge to keep the law?

rev. 12:17
rev. 14: 12
rev 22: 14
1 john 5: 3
hebrews 8: 10
matt 19:17
luke 1:6
john 14: 15,21
" 15: 10
1john 2:3-6
" 3: 22-24
" 5:2-3

james 1:25
" 2: 10-13
when was the last time u read this?

Exo 20: 2 I am the LORD thy God, which have brought
thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage. 3 Thou shalt have no other gods before me.

4 Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or
that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth:
 
5 Thou shalt not bow down thyself to
them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the
children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me;

6 And shewing mercy unto thousands of
them that love me, and keep my commandments. 7 Thou shalt not take the name of the LORD thy God in
vain; for the LORD will not hold him guiltless that taketh his name in vain. 8 Remember the sabbath day, to
keep it holy. 9 Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work: 10 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the
LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy
maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates: 11 For in six days the LORD made
heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed
the sabbath day, and hallowed it. 12 Honour thy father and thy mother: that thy days may be long upon the
land which the LORD thy God giveth thee. 13 Thou shalt not kill. 14 Thou shalt not commit adultery. 15 Thou
shalt not steal. 16 Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour. 17 Thou shalt not covet thy
neighbour’s house, thou shalt not covet thy neighbour’s wife, nor his manservant, nor his maidservant, nor
his ox, nor his ***, nor any thing that is thy neighbour’s.

think about it Our great Creator Made us, decleared Himself unto us and stated explicitly that we should have no other gods before Him. He then told u why u should honour the Sabbath He created. and how to relate to each other

all of Gods laws are under attack. however, if u look closely u will see that the Sabbath command stand out as proof of his creatorship. and trough His example on earth he taught the jews, who the importance there of, that there not burdensome.

see the irony
1: The jews kept the law so rigidedly that they lost sight of the Measiah

2: now, the law was abolished

Tell me if their is no LAW what is Christ saving us from?
 
I do believe that the national sunday law will be past.
have u watched the news lately?
Do u knw who the Evangelicals are?
What is ur take on the ecumenical movement?
tell us about the jesuites?

and where is it in the bible that states that ur church has the right to interpret, change or make amendments to scripture.

remember i said i have nothing against an individual, it is ur system of beliefs that i don’t support.
 
OOPs - Waldenses were not Sabbath keepers as a Church. Perhaps you could give us another group to prove your point. Chapter 4 of EGW’s Great Controversy is not historical - it is all wrong.
prove they weren’t.
 
remember i said i have nothing against an individual, it is ur system of beliefs that i don’t support.
Here is the “core” of my beliefs:

I believe in one God,
the Father, the Almighty,
maker of heaven and earth,
of all that is, seen and unseen.

I believe one Lord, Jesus Christ,
the only Son of God,
eternally begotten of the Father,
God from God, Light from Light,
true God from true God,
begotten, not made,
one in Being with the Father.
Through Him all things were made.

For us men and for our salvation,
He came down from heaven: by the
power of the Holy Spirit He was
born of the Virgin Mary,
and became Man.

For our sake He was crucified
under Pontius Pilate;
He suffered, died, and was buried.

On the third day He rose again
in fulfillment of the Scriptures;

He ascended into heaven,
and is seated at the right hand of the
Father. He will come again in glory
to judge the living and the dead,
and His kingdom will have no end.

I believe in the Holy Spirit,
the Lord, the Giver of life,
Who proceeds from the Father and
the Son. With the Father and the Son
He is worshiped and glorified.
He has spoken through the prophets.

I believe in one, holy, catholic,
and apostolic Church.

I acknowledge one Baptism
for the forgiveness of sins.
I look for the resurrection of the dead,
and the life of the world to come.

What exactly do you not agree with?
 
Here is the “core” of my beliefs:

I believe in one God,
the Father, the Almighty,
maker of heaven and earth,
of all that is, seen and unseen.

I believe one Lord, Jesus Christ,
the only Son of God,
eternally begotten of the Father,
God from God, Light from Light,
true God from true God,
begotten, not made,
one in Being with the Father.
Through Him all things were made.

For us men and for our salvation,
He came down from heaven: by the
power of the Holy Spirit He was
born of the Virgin Mary,
and became Man.

For our sake He was crucified
under Pontius Pilate;
He suffered, died, and was buried.

On the third day He rose again
in fulfillment of the Scriptures;

He ascended into heaven,
and is seated at the right hand of the
Father. He will come again in glory
**to judge the living and the dead,
and His kingdom will have no end.
**judgement already began in heaven: I Christ is bringing His reward with Him, must He not first pass judgement as to who will be saved or lost

I believe in the Holy Spirit,
the Lord, the Giver of life,
Who proceeds from the Father and
the Son. With the Father and the Son
He is worshiped and glorified.
He has spoken through the prophets.

**I believe in one, holy, catholic,
and apostolic Church.
**under this sign go conquer: baptised paganism, Worship of idols and dead people presumed to be in heaven (eccl. 9: 5,6,10 psalm 146: 4, confessional (we are saved through faith in Christ Jesus), worshipof the so called vicar of Christ, immortality of the soul
I acknowledge one Baptism
for the forgiveness of sins.
I look for the resurrection of the dead,
and the life of the world to come.

What exactly do you not agree with?
don’t u see that this system fits the prophecy of daniel, Rev., etc perfectly.
 
don’t u see that this system fits the prophecy of daniel, Rev., etc perfectly.
Okay so there are 2 parts of that seem to be an issue.
Part 1: to judge the living and the dead, and His kingdom will have no end.
judgement already began in heaven: I Christ is bringing His reward with Him, must He not first pass judgement as to who will be saved or lost
The creed states that Christ judges and Christ determines who is saved and who is lost. So I’m not sure what the issue you have here is…

Also it states that Christ’s kingdom has NO end. Do you believe that Christ’s kingdom will end?

Part 2: I believe in one, holy, catholic, and apostolic Church.
under this sign go conquer: baptised paganism, Worship of idols and dead people presumed to be in heaven (eccl. 9: 5,6,10 psalm 146: 4, confessional (we are saved through faith in Christ Jesus), worshipof the so called vicar of Christ, immortality of the soul
Okay I’m not sure what all of this has to do with one, holy, catholic, and apostolic Church.
These are the 4 “marks” of the True Church 1) one 2) holy 3) catholic 4) apostolic.

What does one, holy, catholic, and apostolic Church mean?
I will refer you to this (only because I can’t do a better job of explaining it)
The Church Is One (Rom. 12:5, 1 Cor. 10:17, 12:13, CCC 813–822)
Jesus established only one Church, not a collection of differing churches (Lutheran, Baptist, Anglican, and so on). The Bible says the Church is the bride of Christ (Eph. 5:23–32). Jesus can have but one spouse, and his spouse is the Catholic Church.
His Church also teaches just one set of doctrines, which must be the same as those taught by the apostles (Jude 3). This is the unity of belief to which Scripture calls us (Phil. 1:27, 2:2).
Although some Catholics dissent from officially-taught doctrines, the Church’s official teachers—the pope and the bishops united with him—have never changed any doctrine. Over the centuries, as doctrines are examined more fully, the Church comes to understand them more deeply (John 16:12–13), but it never understands them to mean the opposite of what they once meant.
The Church Is Holy (Eph. 5:25–27, Rev. 19:7–8, CCC 823–829)
By his grace Jesus makes the Church holy, just as he is holy. This doesn’t mean that each member is always holy. Jesus said there would be both good and bad members in the Church (John 6:70), and not all the members would go to heaven (Matt. 7:21–23).
But the Church itself is holy because it is the source of holiness and is the guardian of the special means of grace Jesus established, the sacraments (cf. Eph. 5:26).
The Church Is Catholic (Matt. 28:19–20, Rev. 5:9–10, CCC 830–856)
Jesus’ Church is called catholic (“universal” in Greek) because it is his gift to all people. He told his apostles to go throughout the world and make disciples of “all nations” (Matt. 28:19–20).
For 2,000 years the Catholic Church has carried out this mission, preaching the good news that Christ died for all men and that he wants all of us to be members of his universal family (Gal. 3:28).
Nowadays the Catholic Church is found in every country of the world and is still sending out missionaries to “make disciples of all nations” (Matt. 28:19).
The Church Jesus established was known by its most common title, “the Catholic Church,” at least as early as the year 107, when Ignatius of Antioch used that title to describe the one Church Jesus founded. The title apparently was old in Ignatius’s time, which means it probably went all the way back to the time of the apostles.
The Church Is Apostolic (Eph. 2:19–20, CCC 857–865)
The Church Jesus founded is apostolic because he appointed the apostles to be the first leaders of the Church, and their successors were to be its future leaders. The apostles were the first bishops, and, since the first century, there has been an unbroken line of Catholic bishops faithfully handing on what the apostles taught the first Christians in Scripture and oral Tradition (2 Tim. 2:2).
These beliefs include the bodily Resurrection of Jesus, the Real Presence of Jesus in the Eucharist, the sacrificial nature of the Mass, the forgiveness of sins through a priest, baptismal regeneration, the existence of purgatory, Mary’s special role, and much more —even the doctrine of apostolic succession itself.
Early Christian writings prove the first Christians were thoroughly Catholic in belief and practice and looked to the successors of the apostles as their leaders. What these first Christians believed is still believed by the Catholic Church. No other Church can make that claim.
CCC is short hand for “Cathecism of the Catholic Church”
Here is a web-link to the CCC for reference: usccb.org/catechism/text/
 
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