National Sunday Law Takes Affect!

[Mommyof02green]

under this sign go conquer: baptised paganism, Worship of idols and dead people presumed to be in heaven (eccl. 9: 5,6,10 psalm 146: 4), worshipof the so called vicar of Christ,

Who do Catholic’s worship? Short answer GOD and ONLY God!

For support for this I will direct you to the CCC.

Paragraph 178 of the CCC
see: usccb.org/catechism/text/pt1sect1chpt3.htm

Paragraphs 2096; 2110; 2112; 2113 and 2135 of the CCC
see: usccb.org/catechism/text/pt3sect2chpt1.htm#art1

Immortality of the soul

69. How do the soul and body form a unity in the human being?

The human person is a being at once corporeal and spiritual. In man spirit and matter form one nature. This unity is so profound that, thanks to the spiritual principle which is the soul, the body which is material, becomes a living human body and participates in the dignity of the image of God.

70. Where does the soul come from?

The spiritual soul does not come from one’s parents but is created immediately by God and is immortal. It does not perish at the moment when it is separated from the body in death and it will be once again reunited with the body at the moment of the final resurrection.

Source: vatican.va/archive/compendium_ccc/documents/archive_2005_compendium-ccc_en.html#“I%20believe”%20–%20“We%20believe”

Also this might help:

In Revelation 6:9-10, John writes, “When he [Christ] opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain for the word of God and for the witness they had borne; they cried out with a loud voice, ‘O Sovereign Lord, holy and true, how long before thou wilt judge and avenge our blood on those who dwell upon the earth?’”

Here John sees the disembodied souls of early Christian martyrs. The fact they are disembodied is known because they have been slain. Thus disembodied souls exist. The fact they are conscious is known because they cry out to God for vengeance. Unconscious people can’t do that. Thus conscious, disembodied souls exist.

In Revelation 20:4 John sees these souls again: “Then I saw . . . the souls of those who had been beheaded for their testimony to Jesus and for the word of God and who had not worshipped the beast or its image and had not received its mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life and reigned with Christ a thousand years.”

Here again we have disembodied souls (they had been beheaded). John sees them coming to life to reign with Christ–hence they are in a pre-resurrection state. Some scholars argue that this is a spiritual resurrection rather than a physical one. Even if that were so, it would only strengthen the case for conscious, disembodied souls because, after having been beheaded, they would be reigning with Christ in heaven in a disembodied state.

Source catholic.com/thisrock/1995/9503qq.asp

 

[Mommyof02green]

(we are saved through faith in Christ Jesus)

Please see this link for Catholic View of Salvation: catholic.com/library/pillar.asp

Here are some key points from the above link:

• Jesus died on the cross to save us all from sin and the eternal separation from God that sin causes. When he saves us, he makes us part of his Body, which is the Church (1 Cor. 12:27–30).
• Best of all, the promise of eternal life is a gift, freely offered to us by God. Our initial forgiveness and justification are not things we “earn”. Jesus is the mediator who bridged the gap of sin that separates us from God (1 Tim. 2:5); he bridged it by dying for us. He has chosen to make us partners in the plan of salvation (1 Cor. 3:9).
• We are saved by grace alone, but not by faith alone (which is what “Bible Christians” teach; see Jas. 2:24).
• When we come to God and are justified (that is, enter a right relationship with God), nothing preceding justification, whether faith or good works, earns grace. But then God plants his love in our hearts, and we should live out our faith by doing acts of love (Gal. 6:2).
• Jesus said it is not enough to have faith in him; we also must obey his commandments. “Why do you call me ‘Lord, Lord,’ but do not do the things I command?” (Luke 6:46, Matt. 7:21–23, 19:16–21).
• We do not “earn” our salvation through good works (Eph. 2:8–9, Rom. 9:16), but our faith in Christ puts us in a special grace-filled relationship with God so that our obedience and love, combined with our faith, will be rewarded with eternal life (Rom. 2:7, Gal. 6:8–9).
• Since no gift can be forced on the recipient—gifts always can be rejected—even after we become justified, we can throw away the gift of salvation. We throw it away through grave (mortal) sin (John 15:5–6, Rom. 11:22–23, 1 Cor. 15:1–2). Paul tells us, “The wages of sin is death” (Rom. 6:23).
• Sins are nothing but evil works. We can avoid sins by habitually performing good works. Every saint has known that the best way to keep free from sins is to embrace regular prayer, the sacraments (the Eucharist first of all), and charitable acts.
• Paul told the Christians of his day: “If we have died with him [in baptism; see Rom. 6:3–4] we shall also live with him; if we persevere we shall also reign with him” (2 Tim. 2:11–12).

If we do not persevere, we shall not reign with him. In other words, Christians can forfeit heaven.

• The Bible makes it clear that Christians have a moral assurance of salvation (God will be true to his word and will grant salvation to those who have faith in Christ and are obedient to him [1 John 3:19–24]), but the Bible does not teach that Christians have a guarantee of heaven. There can be no absolute assurance of salvation. Writing to Christians, Paul said, “See, then, the kindness and severity of God: severity toward those who fell, but God’s kindness to you, provided you remain in his kindness, otherwise you too will be cut off” (Rom. 11:22–23; Matt. 18:21–35, 1 Cor. 15:1–2, 2 Pet. 2:20–21).

Note that Paul includes an important condition: “provided you remain in his kindness.” He is saying that Christians can lose their salvation by throwing it away. He warns, “Whoever thinks he is standing secure should take care not to fall” (1 Cor. 10:11–12).

Again these are just some of the key points from this link: catholic.com/library/pillar.asp

 

[Mommyof02green]

confessional

Please see this link: biblechristiansociety.com/2min_apologetics.php?id=12

 

[adventistnomore]

don’t u see that this system fits the prophecy of daniel, Rev., etc perfectly.

“I believe in one God”

Wow… You’re right! This is totally what the Bible condemns. My apologies; I will return to the Adventist Church now.

 

[SDA2RC]

prove they weren’t.

SayNoToBabylon,
The beauty is that the SDA Church Historian Dr. Bacchiocchi, (easily the most prominent Church Historian in the SDA Church) has already proven that the Waldenses did not keep the Sabbath. So… we don’t have to

"Did the Waldenses Observe the Sabbath?
A second example of existing inaccuracies in *the Great Controversy, *is the reference to the observance of the Sabbath by the Waldenses. Ellen White wrote: “Through ages of darkness and apostasy there were Waldenses who denied the supremacy of Rome, who rejected image worship as idolatry, and who kept the true Sabbath. Under the fiercest tempests of oppositions they maintained their faith.” 32
…
Did some of the Waldenses observe the Sabbath? I spent several hours searching for an answer in the two scholarly volumes Storia dei Valdesi - (History of the Waldenses), authored by Amedeo Molnar and Augusto Hugon. These two books were published in 1974 by the Claudiana, which is the official Italian Waldensian publishing house. They are regarded as the most comprehensive history of the Waldenses. To my regret I found no allusion whatsoever to Sabbathkeeping among the Waldenses.
Sabbathkeepers or Sandal-Wearers?
The same search for historical evidences of Sabbathkeeping among the Waldenses has been conducted by other Adventist scholars. What they have found in some documents are references to the insabbati, a common nickname for the Waldenses. In the past some uninformed readers have taken this term to mean that the Waldenses were Sabbathkeepers. It is possible that Ellen White was influenced by this old interpretation.
Unfortunately the term insabbati has no connection to Sabbathkeeping. As Adventist Church Historian, Daniel Augsburger explains in the symposium *The Sabbath in Scripture and History, *the Waldenses were often called insabbati, not because they kept the Sabbath, but because the wore sandals. "The Latin word for *sandals *is sabbatum, the root of the Spanish zapato and the French sabot. …In other words, the Waldenses were often called insabbati - (sandal-wearers), because many of them wore sandals cut away at the top in their itinerant ministry of preaching the Gospel.
Another inaccurate statement about the Waldenses is found in The Great Controversy pages 65-66: "Behind the lofty bulwarks of the mountains . … the Waldenses found a hiding place. Here the light of truth was kept burning amid the darkness of the Middle Ages. Here for *a thousand years, *witnesses for the truth maintained the ancient faith.“35
The problem with this statement is that the Waldensian movement was established by Peter Valdes in 1173. This means that the Waldenses did not exist for “a thousand years,” during “the darkness of the Middle Ages.” It is surprising that the editorial helpers did not catch this inaccuracy. It was simply a matter of checking the name “Waldenses” in a Dictionary of Church History.
… After all, Adventists are committed to search and proclaim truth, and not to cover up traditional inaccurate interpretations.”

ENDTIME ISSUES No 87

A Reply To Criticism: Part I “The Use of […]

www.biblicalperspectives.com

 

[Mommyof02green]

baptised paganism

I didn’t touch on this last night. Therefore I thought I would touch on it this morning.

So long as the baptism is performed with the proper matter (water), form (“In the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit”) and intention (to baptize), the Church recognizes the validity of non-Catholic Christian baptisms. Since these baptisms are valid, it is fine to attend the baptism of a non-Catholic Christian.

Source: forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=723968&postcount=2

Catholics also see an Adventist baptism as a “valid” baptism.

By virtue of their valid baptism, and their belief in Christ’s divinity and in the doctrine of the Trinity, Seventh-Day Adventists are both ontologically and theologically Christians.

Source: catholic.com/library/Seventh_Day_Adventism.asp

So what is a baptism? It is the use of water and the words “I baptize you in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit”

Take Care and God Bless

 

[ABostonCatholic]

So you build a entire empire on one verse?

I didn’t realize that there is a verse in the bible that tells us how many verses there must be before we can “build an entire empire on it” - of course, there must be several verses to confirm it, right?

Perhaps we should forget about this do not kill commandment, since there are SO many cases in the Bible where killing seems to be acceptable, right?

Come on now.

What you don’t understand is that for Christians there are certain aspects of the law which no longer apply. For instance, Jesus abolished the food requirements saying that all food is clean (this was a change in the law which said that some food is unclean). Peter, James and the other leaders of the Church in the book of Acts did away with circumcision for gentiles, which was the sign of the sacred covenant between God and man! Channing the Sabbath PALES in comparison to that change!

Your whole argument rests on the notion that none of the law can change, but obviously it did, therefore that basis of your argument fails and you need to start all over.

BTW, just what exactly did Jesus himself say about the Sabbath, and who was it that made a fuss about JESUS not properly observing it?

 

[JoeyWarren]

True faith avoids the sword

Recently, I got a book in the mail, addressed ‘‘occupant.’’ It was a little book called ‘‘National Sunday Law’’ by the Rev. A. Jan Marcussen. He’s a pastor in the Seventh Day Adventist Church, and he’s written an interesting book.

‘‘National Sunday Law’’ concerns Revelation and the End Times. Over 30 million of these books are in circulation. The Left Behind series of End Times books must have sold more than twice that. These writers are talking to a lot of people.

Marcussen gets right to work telling us whom to watch out for. The Satanic number of 666 is produced by adding up the Roman numerical values (if any) of the letters that make up VICARIUS FILII DEI: ‘‘Vicar for the Son of God,’’ supposedly inscribed on the pope’s mitre. It seems the anti-Christ is the Roman Catholic Church. Marcussen is afraid that the Catholic Church will align itself with Evangelical Protestants to break down the separation of church and state and turn America into a theocracy.

Under other circumstances, I’m not sure Marcussen would object to that, but there’s a hitch. Most Christians observe the Sabbath on the wrong day. Based on scriptures, Marcussen is convinced it’s supposed to be on Saturday. But the new American theocracy will require universal Sunday observance. If, when Jesus returns, otherwise good Christians are observing the Sabbath on the wrong day, they’ll have yielded to the anti-Christ (the Catholic Church), and they’ll all be sent to hell. Thirty million Americans are reading this.

Marcussen joins a number of Last Times writers who are convinced that near the End, our government will be arresting and killing Christians. In the hands of scholars like Marcussen, scriptures become a funhouse mirror. Depending where you stand, you can make the image into anything you like.

Were Marcussen a violent man, he’d have the capabilities of Osama bin Laden - but because he’s not, he fears instead the violence of others. And in his fear, Marcussen turns for protection to the separation of church and state, which he begs his readers to defend.

Triumphalists take note, in a future America where one sect has seduced government into a theocratic alliance, you’ll never know who will be up and who will be down. Marcussen, after chronicling a history of Christians persecuting one another, concludes that once the faithful have tasted the blood of nonbelievers, there’ll be no going back. And so, one of the most extreme Christians I’ve ever read offers the only advice he can: If you don’t want to go somewhere, don’t take a single step in its direction. Jesus, it turns out, has a friend in Thomas Jefferson.

Reading ‘‘National Sunday Law’’ makes me sad. Part of me feels that Marcussen isn’t a bad man. Then the rest of me points out that this man thinks so little of his fellow human beings that he thinks they are - over a billion of them - the very embodiment of evil. (It makes you wonder whether there’s any room left in his hell for all the Muslims.)

In the recent election, the Republicans lost more than the Evangelicals did. The Christians got off lucky. This offers Evangelicals a far less painful lesson than Marcussen has in mind: When faith is tempted by the sword of power, it can perish when the sword arm weakens. It has already happened in Europe. What could have dimmed the ardor of the very folks who brought us the Hundred Years War but the very horror of it itself…followed by the collapse of moral authority churches experienced in the 1940s when the states to whom they’d been allied disgraced themselves. In Old Europe today, regular church attendance is under 15 percent.

I am reminded that Martin Luther King died to advance the cause of justice and compassion, not that of Baptist Christianity. Roman Catholic priests in Latin America who lay down their lives for their down-trodden flocks don’t do it for the Vatican; they do it for the poor. True faith does not reach for the sword of power; it reaches to touch the face of God - or at least the hem of His garment.

 

[JoeyWarren]

In my honest opinion, if there was such a law, it would be the “National Saturday Law” or the “National Sabbath Law”, but since the Antichrist will be the leader of Global World Power it would then be “International Saturday Law” or “International Sabbath Law”

The Anti-christ will no doubt be someone with ties to the Muslims.

Any law about restricting worship to a certain day will have to have approval of the Israel. The only Day that Israel will approve of in a Treaty that will be broken 3 1/2 years later would be their Sabbath?

1. Well the Allah followers use Friday.
2. Israel uses a portion of Friday.
3. SDA’s I think would have no problem of adopting the Jewish model of the Sabbath,
4. The Allah followers could actually follow the Israel model because of some New Revelation by the Anti-Christ.

Either way, it will be Friday or Saturday, not Sunday.

France is on the verge of being a Muslim majority. When this happens, the Muslims will vote in Muslim politicians. Once the Politicians reach a Muslim majority, then the Muslim nation will have control of the France Nuclear Program which estimates say they have 350 nuclear bombs.

The ramifications of this should not be too hard to fathom.

The Muslim nation will subjugate with a true “Holy Jihad” the European Nation. Doing so, they will acquire more nuclear weapons from the other nuclear countries they have conquered.

At some point the issue of only one authorized day of worhship will come into play.

etc. etc. etc.

 

[ABostonCatholic]

JoeyWarren,

Whether you are right or not about your prediction (yours seems much more reasonable), your post underlies the fact that so many of these SDAs are in their own world detached from reality, that they fail to see that Christians, especially conservative Christians who would want to enact such a sunday law, have lost or are losing power to liberals with no regard for sunday, saturday, or any day of the week as special, or to people of other faiths for whom Sunday is not a holy day.

 

[JoeyWarren]

JoeyWarren,

Whether you are right or not about your prediction (yours seems much more reasonable), your post underlies the fact that so many of these SDAs are in their own world detached from reality, that they fail to see that Christians, especially conservative Christians who would want to enact such a sunday law, have lost or are losing power to liberals with no regard for sunday, saturday, or any day of the week as special, or to people of other faiths for whom Sunday is not a holy day.

Yes I agree whole-heartily. They can not or will not deal with the reality of liberals.

As for my predictions. I don’t know what to classify them as. I just look at populations % of countries and the change in populations and compare that to the population of nuclear devices of those countries.

The side affect of being a Programmer/Analyst is the tendacy to look at the future based on current trends.

 

[drdude]

Here is an interesting link that I think should be read by all.

biblehistory.com/The%20Origin%20of%20Sunday%20Worship.html

 

[drdude]

Here is another good one.

freewebs.com/bubadutep75/

 

[RNRobert]

I recall reading on a website somewhere that in the 1870s-80s, there was a bill in Congress to make Sunday a national holiday. It was shot down because it was seen to violate the separation of church and state, and that the Supreme Court would strike it down as unconstitional. This is where the SDAs get their paranoia for a National Sunday Law. Of course, our country is so secularized that it would never happen.

 

[JoeyWarren]

Here is an interesting link that I think should be read by all.

biblehistory.com/The%20Origin%20of%20Sunday%20Worship.html

Kenneth A. Strand - another SDA with a twisted sense of history and scripture.

 

[drdude]

JoeyWarren,

Whether you are right or not about your prediction (yours seems much more reasonable), your post underlies the fact that so many of these SDAs are in their own world detached from reality, that they fail to see that Christians, especially conservative Christians who would want to enact such a sunday law, have lost or are losing power to liberals with no regard for sunday, saturday, or any day of the week as special, or to people of other faiths for whom Sunday is not a holy day.

I for one am not detached from reality. I am quite aware of what’s going on in this world. I to believe the Muslims will be a major role in the end-time events. Are you aware of the Churches attendance after 9/11? The records show that the chruches experienced record highs. It’s amazing what those terrorists caused. Look at some of the freedoms we have lost after 9/11 (they were for good reason) But one more major terror attack and watch how everyone will hand over more control for the sense of security.

Now onto the power of Chrisitianity today in America. I’m sure you are aware of Pat Roberston and other such evangelists. Well they began to speak out about a new political religion that would direct its efforts toward taking control of all institutions, including mainstream denominations and the government. It’s stated goal was to use the United States to create a global Christian empire. what is the percentage of Christians in the US today? Somewhere between 70-86% I believe, not exact but close enough. Might I mention that Pat Roberston has a huge following today. This movement is in politics more than you have stated. Forty-five senators and 186 members of the House before the last elections earned approval ratings of 80 to 100 percent from the three most influential Christian right advocacy groups, The Christian Coalition, Eagle Forum, and Family Resource Council. President Bush has handed hundreds of millions of dollars in federal aid to these groups and dismantled federal programs in science, reproductive rights, and AIDS research to pay homeage to the Christian rights groups. Once these self-absorbed, power hungry politicos realized the voting power of the Christian movement, you would be suprised at what can be accomplished. You familiar with the FCC issues back a few years with Howard Stern, etc. Who do you think was behind that? The Christian Movement! Howard Stern was on for a long time until Bush put Powell’s son the head of FCC.
Are you aware of the ACLJ with Jay Sekulow check them out at aclj.org/ look at what the Christian’s are accomplishing with him. Here are some more links to check out. To give you a good idea of what’s coming down the pipe.

ldausa.org/
tencommandmentsday.com/ (notice the day)
cc.org/
christianchurchestogether.org/ (click on the what we do link and look at # 7)

 

[JoeyWarren]

Here is another good one.

freewebs.com/bubadutep75/

Obviously another SDA site. It is full of errors as well.

 

[JoeyWarren]

9/11 is past history. The liberals are tired of the conservative front lines. The liberal democrats will take office in 2008. All efforts made by the conservatives will be lost. We are way too secular. The number of non-christians outweigh us Christians 10 to 1. A snowball has a better chance in hell than our government passing a “Sunday Only” Law.

Dr Dude, you need a reality check.

 

[drdude]

Kenneth A. Strand - another SDA with a twisted sense of history and scripture.

No one has twisted scripture to control and delude people more than the RCC system has. Just take a look at where the RCC got it start from. Rome, one of the biggest persacuting powers, which was Pagan.

Idoltry, just drive around and look at all the Mary statues on the lawns. Look at all the statues in the church. The Rosary, don’t see that in the Bible.

Purgatory. no such thing! Just a way to make money off of the people. Also makes Jesus’ sacrifice not Once and for all.

Mary Immaculate Conception. States that Mary was preserved exempt from all stain of original sin at the first moment of her animation, and sanctifying grace was given to her before sin could have taken effect in her soul. Which means that Jesus was not born of our flesh He was not born in a sinful flesh as the bible states. Hence the spirit of the Antichrist denies that Christ is born of our flesh. 1 John 4:2-3
Matthew 26:41 Mark 14:38 Romans 1:3 Romans 7:18
and the big one Romans 8:3.

Papacy. Holy Father, Vicar of Christ. First off the Holy Spirit is the Vicar of Christ, and Second there is only 1 Holy Father and that is God Almighty! Catholics claim they don’t worship the pope which is true to some degree, there are no prayers for the Pope that I know of. But do you see the masses that flock to the Vatican to hear him speak. Do you see the millions-upon-millions who bow down to him and kiss his ring.

Someone want to please explain to me their interpretation of the Woman apon the beast, the little horn. Purple and Scarlot, gold and silver ontop of 7 hills. That all fits the description of the Vatican to me. Thinks to change the times and laws. Now you claim that RCC did not change the Sabbath to Sunday but the Vatican sure did claim to have and boast of it. All Calendar changes were done by who? Rome and Popes. Where did Papacy stem from? Rome!

I’m sorry you cannot make a good argument with the overwhelming Historical facts against you. Using a man made International dateline against the Sabbath is weak as well. It’s better to make an effort to worship God on his Holy Day than to outrightly admit to not having to, based on two bible texts that clearly don’t say that Sunday is now the day of worship. If you take the claim of the church and follow a church that tells you to than you are following the traditions and commandments of men. Breaking Bread does not state a worship service. You forget to look at the real reason that Acts 20:7-12 was included in the bible. Paul through the power of God had risen the young man who fell to his death. I think to use that vers 20:7 to claim that Sunday is now the Holy Day is weak. Again please show me in the bible where God, Jesus or the apostles preached to anyone that Sunday is now the new day of worship. Show me in the bible where God, Jesus, or the apostles preached that Sabbath was no longer binding. Please don’t use Col 2:14-16 either because that verse when read with the rest of the chapter clearly shows that Paul was talking about the the Ceremonial Laws (Mosaic Laws). Did not the Pharisees judge Jesus and the apostles for things they were doing on the Sabbath? Things which were of no importance to Jesus. The Jews had some riduculous rules for observing the Sabbath, and Jesus was showing them that those ridiculous rules were man made.

So in short aside from some admitting that they follow what the church demands of them and not really God, using ridiculous man made timelines, Versus taking out of context that contradict the whole bible, Some books that are only included in Catholic books that support their claims, which contradict the rest of the bible, and yes the aprocrypha (Vulgate if you wish). Or using Didache and such. Show me where I’m wrong. I think the evidence against the Catholic Church is suffecient enough to say Come out of Babylon! God is calling to you he loves you and wants you to see the truth. don’t let your human pride keep you from hearing God’s word.

 

[drdude]

9/11 is past history. The liberals are tired of the conservative front lines. The liberal democrats will take office in 2008. All efforts made by the conservatives will be lost. We are way too secular. The number of non-christians outweigh us Christians 10 to 1. A snowball has a better chance in hell than our government passing a “Sunday Only” Law.

Dr Dude, you need a reality check.

Reality, watch what happens when the Democrats allow Gay Marriage rights, Abortion rights, and totally run this country into the hole. The Vatican has this country where it wants it. To destroy it from the inside. And you cannot deny that this country is falling apart by the hands of the small percentage of secular people. Wait and see what will happen when there is another major terrorist attack. Because it’s not a matter of if…It’s a matter of when. Vatican does not like the idea of a Country with the USA’s power of seperation of church and state. Liberals play right into the hands of the RCC. I bet some on this forum feel there is nothing wrong with Gay/Lesbian marriage. You want a reality check, stop watching the Liberal controlled media for reality.