I think you are mixing apples and oranges. Aren’t we talking about the fasting traditions of the Eastern Catholic Churches? Midnight Mass in “the Filipino tradition” is a tradition of the Latin Church.I see. So it won’t conflict with the Filipino tradition then
We usually have a midnight meal for Christmas which of course comes after midnight Mass.
Right, as Canon 1251 says it should be for all Fridays. But most Episcopal Conferences doesn’t really enforce abstinence (maybe I should say dispensed?) for Fridays outside of Lent.Your statements aren’t entirely clear to me. Here are some references that might clarify for readers, re the Latin Church (not the ECs).
Code of Canon Law of the Latin Church
HH PAUL VI Apostolic Constitution on Penance
Yes, but the meal really is more cultural than religious. Does this mean I would have to break my cultural tradition if I am to observe Eastern traditions on Fasting?I think you are mixing apples and oranges. Aren’t we talking about the fasting traditions of the Eastern Catholic Churches? Midnight Mass in “the Filipino tradition” is a tradition of the Latin Church.
Not dispensed because if you read the quote from the Apostolic Constitution on Penance from HH PAUL VI he states it “intends to ratify with its prescriptions other forms of penitence as well, provided that it seems opportune to episcopal conferences **to replace **the observance of fast and abstinence with exercises of prayer and works of charity.”
Problem is I never hear any Bishop or priest even encourage people to continue to abstain outside of Lent, nor to have exercises of prayer and works of charity.Not dispensed because if you read the quote from the Apostolic Constitution on Penance from HH PAUL VI he states it “intends to ratify with its prescriptions other forms of penitence as well, provided that it seems opportune to episcopal conferences **to replace **the observance of fast and abstinence with exercises of prayer and works of charity.”
I think this is a topic to take elsewhere in the Forum, outside the EC forum since it isn’t related to us.
What is the spirit of the fast? Does it seem likely you’d be breaking the spirit of the fast by having a meal after Eucharist in a midnight Mass?
Several of the podcasts referenced in my OP are done by women.
Thank you.I guess thats the issue because our culture is intertwined with Roman Catholicism that everything is scheduled according to RC disciplines and traditions.What is the spirit of the fast? Does it seem likely you’d be breaking the spirit of the fast by having a meal after Eucharist in a midnight Mass?
Our priest in his homily yesterday said he wishes he could put us on the old calendar so we could be better separated from all the cultural “stuff” around “Christmas”. It struck a chord among the faithful.
Again, fasting, from an Eastern perspective is undertaken with the guidance of a spiritual father, i.e. an Eastern spiritual father. That term of course often includes Eastern spiritual advisers who are women, typically the wives of deacons and priests, like our Matushka priestswife here.
I’d like to redirect myself back to the joy of the fast, the anticipation of the Incarnation, and how we are encouraged to be in a different time and space than that around us as we prepare. Let’s put ourselves on the “old calendar” in a metaphorical sense.
I really like what Matushka priestswife did there with Psalm 31
Yes there are Divine Liturgies on the eve of feasts. These are Liturgies for the eve NOT for the feast itself.
While to me I know giving these up isn’t such a bid deal as I will always be Filipino, I want my son who is born and will be raised here in Canada to partake of traditions of the culture he comes from. This is a lot to ingest and I guess prayer and meditation and spiritual guidance is needed.
The Byzantine tradition has a few ways of calculating time. One for ordinary days, this changes during lent and fasting periods. Like said earlier the fasting periods end with receiving communion on the feast day itself.
Heheheh. To tell you the truth I’ve always envied the Chinese who 3 or 4 generations removed from their homelands still matain their cultural identity. I’ve had classmates in college who still speak fluent Chinese in their dialect, and its not a popular dialect. And I compare to Filipinos who even the immigrants themselves stop speaking Filipino in favor of English. I know its more important to be citizens of Christ’s kingdom. Filipinos are spiritual by nature and spirituality is intertwined with our culture. I want my son and other future children to inherit that, especially most of our cultural practices revolve around Roman Catholic traditions. Case in point, its customary to visit dead relative’s graves during Holloween, some even camp in the cemetery from the 31st to the 2nd. I thought it was just merely a cultural thing until I learned this year that the Church grants indulgences to those who would visit the grave and pray for the dearly departed during the first week of November. I would be surprised if more than 10% of those in cemeteries during this time of year even realize this. I’ve been doing this since birth until my move here to Canada and didn’t know until 2 weeks ago.The Byzantine tradition has a few ways of calculating time. One for ordinary days, this changes during lent and fasting periods. Like said earlier the fasting periods end with receiving communion on the feast day itself.
As far as your son goes you can bring him up with the religious traditions being more important then the cultural ones, he won’t be in the situation you are now. Isn’t living in a multicultural environment fun?
I think you just made my point. If you want your kids to be culturaly Filipino, and part of that culture is being RC, maybe it’s not the best thing in the world to bring them up in the Byzantine church. As araw ng mga Pagay, Todos losSantos, Simbang Gabi, and many other Filipino feasts just are not part of the Byzantine world.
Indeed. That is why I shared my side of the story here, so people who are thinking of switching Churches would know its not all about the beauty of the Divine Liturgy.
I believe that the church must breath with both lungs, but as individuals we must choose a church and live within the tradition of that church. Not that we can’t appreciate the beauty of other churches or learn from their traditions. But to try to live within more then one tradition would make you schitzo. Or even to try and combine traditions is not a good idea in my opinion.
I guess my perspective on it is different. As an immigrant I know I can absorb all of Canadian culture I can, but I can never be fully Canadian and I will always be Filipino. But then again the longer I stay in Canada, the less Filipino I seem compared to those in the Philippines. I don’t think I’m a schizo right now. Besides, isn’t the underlying faith the same? The traditions may be different but ultimately the faith is the same. When I first came to Divine Liturgy, I was expecting something radically different. But instead it was something familiar. Like what the poster says, East and West doesn’t contradict each other, they complement each other. I want what the poster says
Traditionally, only 2 or 4 (depending upon tradition). And that includes Christmas Eve.
Eastern Catholics are called upon to observe the same fasting rules as the Orthodox, but local bishops may “dispense” from such. My parish encourages everyone to observe the full Orthodox rule of fasting, including the Wednesday Fast throughout the year.
Yes, but breaking the fast is serious sin in the East. And St Seraphim of Sarov once counselled that we are not even to speak to those who do not observe the fasts . . .We fast and practice asceticism because we love God, not because someone enforces it. It really is a different way of looking at things then in the West (even in the Philippines which is East but still West).
But it would for me as a Canonical Roman Catholic, right?Traditionally, only 2 or 4 (depending upon tradition). And that includes Christmas Eve.
Modern UGCC and Ruthenian use both have provisions for doing so, but it’s not tradition until it’s been done 200 years, at least according to the council of Trent.
Modern Orthodox in the US also have such provisions; it’s an economia for modern secularist society.
Also, the Christmas Eve Divine liturgy doesn’t fulfill the Christmas obligation, but is a separate obligation, traditionally.