Nativity scene

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Please tell us what you mean by “not portraying it accurately.” If you make a claim, you must fully explain what you mean by that claim, and then support it with evidence.

-ACEGC
 
I would suspect that much of our “Christmas lore” as found in nativity scenes is based on a need to “coordinate/blend” the two very different nativity stories as found in scripture…each story was related by different Christian communities…Luke has the holy family living in Nazareth and has to somehow get them to Bethlehem…from there Jesus is presented in the Temple and then Mary and Joseph return to Nazareth.

In Matthew, Mary and Joseph are already living in Bethlehem…the Magi visit to Bethlehem happened maybe when Jesus was two years old…so we have their visit…the slaughter of the innocents…Mary and Joseph escaping into Egypt and staying until it is safe to return to the holy land…then settling in Nazareth to “fulfil scripture” 'He will be called a Nazarene."

Both stories conflict…and when they are “blended”…we have a third version…“Luke’s”…“Matthew’s” and a “Third”…

Most of our Christmas traditions have ‘taken a life of their own’…so our Nativity scenes reflect the common "faith story’…a story that neither gospel supports.
 
Publisher said:
I would suspect that much of our “Christmas lore” as found in nativity scenes is based on a need to “coordinate/blend” the two very different nativity stories as found in scripture…each story was related by different Christian communities…Luke has the holy family living in Nazareth and has to somehow get them to Bethlehem…from there Jesus is presented in the Temple and then Mary and Joseph return to Nazareth.

In Matthew, Mary and Joseph are already living in Bethlehem…the Magi visit to Bethlehem happened maybe when Jesus was two years old…so we have their visit…the slaughter of the innocents…Mary and Joseph escaping into Egypt and staying until it is safe to return to the holy land…then settling in Nazareth to “fulfil scripture” 'He will be called a Nazarene."

Both stories conflict…and when they are “blended”…we have a third version…“Luke’s”…“Matthew’s” and a “Third”…

Most of our Christmas traditions have ‘taken a life of their own’…so our Nativity scenes reflect the common "faith story’…a story that neither gospel supports.
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See that is what I mean. We are blending things together and that is not the way it happen which in return makes people (children) believe that it happened that way. We try to be accurate in the rest of the stories in the Bible excapt this one.
 
edward_george said:
Please tell us what you mean by “not portraying it accurately.” If you make a claim, you must fully explain what you mean by that claim, and then support it with evidence.

-ACEGC
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Were there only 3 wise men. The Bible says some wise men. We assume there were only 3 wise men because of the 3 gifts. The wise men did not visit Jesus right after he was born. The Bible says “They (the wise men) entered the house where the child and his mother, Mary, were, and they (the wise men) fell down before him and worshiped him.”
See not accurate according to Scripture.
We portray it like this. Mary, Joseph, and baby Jesus are in a wooden structure and 3 wise men are there.
 
rev_kevin said:
Why do we not portray the Nativity Scene accuratly?
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Kevin, St. Francis was the first to make a Nativity likeness. He undoubtedly took the bible versions and decided which scenario he would use and did so.

We of these later times think of a stable as being an above ground structure. We have a difficult time imagining a stable cave.

I do not believe what type of shelter there was at the Nativity is important, the main point was the Nativity itself. It changed the world and all creation. It does not make any difference if it was in the desert, in a hillside, or in a pine forrest. The birth of our King is the point.

God Bless!!!
 
It’s art. It’s not mean to be literal.

And, if you are going to claim to be an “independant (sic) minister” you should really learn how to spell independent.
 
Norval said:
Kevin, St. Francis was the first to make a Nativity likeness. He undoubtedly took the bible versions and decided which scenario he would use and did so.

We of these later times think of a stable as being an above ground structure. We have a difficult time imagining a stable cave.

I do not believe what type of shelter there was at the Nativity is important, the main point was the Nativity itself. It changed the world and all creation. It does not make any difference if it was in the desert, in a hillside, or in a pine forrest. The birth of our King is the point.

God Bless!!!
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Sure the birth of our King is the point but shouldn’t we be accurate in the telling or showing of his birth instead of telling or showing others a falsehood about his birth?
I don’t have a hard time believing our King was born in a cave because that would be more accurate.
 
1ke said:
It’s art. It’s not mean to be literal.

And, if you are going to claim to be an “independant (sic) minister” you should really learn how to spell independent.
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Thanks for the spelling lesson. Like you never mispelt a word. So now the birth of our King has been lowered down to art. Now if you must claim or call me (sic) which I take as (sick) then our discussion is over. Thanks for the reply. Have a good day.
 
When I was an “independent Baptist minister”😉 I did an in-depth study of the nativity. And yes, it does destroy our ‘romantic’ view of what is currently sitting under my tree. If I remember correctly (the notes are long gone) in all likelihood:
  1. The ‘Inn’ was a large cave with separate crevices that were the ‘rooms’.
  2. The animals would have been donkeys, no cudley sheep or cows.
  3. A ‘manger’ is actually a feeding trough for animals.
  4. The Wise Men came much later and probably numbered more than three. I think the legend of “three” came from Lew Wallace’s classic book Ben Hur.
Now, I might be all wet with all this…I mean none of us were there and the Gospels only give us info on a ‘need to know’ basis.
But ah…the Navity under my tree ain’t goin’ anywhere soon. 😃
 
rev_kevin said:
See that is what I mean. We are blending things together and that is not the way it happen which in return makes people (children) believe that it happened that way. We try to be accurate in the rest of the stories in the Bible excapt this one.
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Actually, serious Catholics portray the Nativity at least somewhat in order - Mary and Joseph appear first, at some point during Advent, then Baby Jesus and the shepherds on Christmas Eve, and then the Wise Men appear on January 6th.
 
JustaServant said:
When I was an “independent Baptist minister”😉 I did an in-depth study of the nativity. And yes, it does destroy our ‘romantic’ view of what is currently sitting under my tree. If I remember correctly (the notes are long gone) in all likelihood:
  1. The ‘Inn’ was a large cave with separate crevices that were the ‘rooms’.
  2. The animals would have been donkeys, no cudley sheep or cows.
  3. A ‘manger’ is actually a feeding trough for animals.
  4. The Wise Men came much later and probably numbered more than three. I think the legend of “three” came from Lew Wallace’s classic book Ben Hur.
Now, I might be all wet with all this…I mean none of us were there and the Gospels only give us info on a ‘need to know’ basis.
But ah…the Navity under my tree ain’t goin’ anywhere soon. 😃
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That is also what I have come up with in my study of the Nativity. Thats why I asked the question. And like you the Nativity under my glass coffee table ain’t going anywhere. My wife likes it.
 
jmcrae said:
Actually, serious Catholics portray the Nativity at least somewhat in order - Mary and Joseph appear first, at some point during Advent, then Baby Jesus and the shepherds on Christmas Eve, and then the Wise Men appear on January 6th.
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I can go with everything except the January 6th part.
 
A ‘manger’ is actually a feeding trough for animals.
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This is only a suprise to those who have never been to a farm!

I think the answer is the same as why we celebrate the Nativity on Dec 25th.
 
I think the most important thing here is not producing Nativity scenes of textbook historical accuracy, but instead making art which depicts the realities of the faith in such a way as to inspire devotion. When the average person looks at a Nativity, they don’t whip out their Bible and go “hmm this isn’t EXACTLY how the Gospels depict this, is it?” Rather, most are inclined to reflect upon the poverty into which the King of Glory was born, the reverence shown by all peoples–from the highest state to the lowest–and of the beauty of the love of the Holy Family. The question should not be “how exactly correct is my Nativity scene when it comes to history,” but “does this art inspire me to lift my thoughts toward God?”

-ACEGC
 
rev_kevin said:
I can go with everything except the January 6th part.
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As a former Catholic, you should know that January 6th in the liturgical year is celebrated as the Epiphany.

Of course this happened later, but we DO have a liturgical calendar. If we celebrated it in spring, for example, it would conflict with Lent, and we DO know when Easter Sunday is celebrated.

You might want to go back and read the Church Fathers to get what their opinion is, but we also know that Herod killed the innocent babies 2 and below, so we also know that they couldn’t have come after that time.
 
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