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maryjk
Guest
You might want to check your attitude. You will find the reason there.
Hint: You joined the forum today. You also attacked Catholic priests and bishops. Oh, and Catholic teaching.
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Hint: You joined the forum today. You also attacked Catholic priests and bishops. Oh, and Catholic teaching.
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white_sheep
Guest
The Church has not banned contraception, it has merely advised you that its use will cause you to go to Hell.
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PennyinCanada
Guest
I wonder what single adults, who follow the teaching of the church and abstain, think of married couples complaining they can’t have sex for certain days of the month. This topic must become very tiresome, especially if they have always wanted to marry and have children.
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Thorns
Guest
Abstinence prevents them from becoming one flesh too. Kissing, getting turned on, and not following up with sex thwarts the act and also prevents them from becoming one flesh.
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Thorns
Guest
In the OP scenario, it wasnt talking about abstaining for a few days a month. It stated that the only seemingly “viable solution” would be for a 22 year old couple to abstain until menopause.
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Gia_B
Guest
As an unmarried person, I find it very annoying when married couples complain about not being able to have sex of a few days a month. It’s especially annoying when combined with the advice from premarital sex threads. According to CAF, if a young woman’s boyfriend can’t stand being in a relationship without sex, he doesn’t love her enough and she should dump him because sex is not what a relationship/marriage is truly about, but the second they get married, their relationship will fall apart if they can’t have as much sex as they like. What!? :ehh:
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Thorns
Guest
How do you feel about fasting from food for 40 years?
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Thorns
Guest
Can you explain why?
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PaulGH
Guest
A couple in this situation has a long list of problems, and needs help and prayers. But it seems strange to me to point to the church’s teaching on contraception as the major problem for this couple, when it seems obvious that their real problems are health, finances, lack of family support, and so on.
If this couple is real, and not just hypothetical, have they tried the Marquette Method, which uses a fertility monitor to track the level of a certain hormone in the urine, in order to p(name removed by moderator)oint the most likely day of ovulation? Or what about seeing a doctor who is trained in the Creighton Model of NFP? Or would they be interested in learning about ecological breastfeeding so that their babies could be spaced about two years apart, instead of one per year which they almost had to have done to have six children by age 22?
This is not what the Catholic Church teaches. If this were true, then the Catholic Church would have to condemn the use of natural family planning to avoid pregnancy, which it does not.
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pensmama87
Guest
:doh2:
Yes, sexual acts that stand alone and do not result in intercourse CAN be sinful, if the intention was not to include them as part of a sex act. Again, it’s turning what sex is on its end to serve the selfish needs of the people engaging in it.
But abstinence is simply NOT engaging in sex if the people involved determine it’s not prudent to accept all that sex is at that point in time. That can be because of the risks of pregnancy, or sex is too painful, or if they’re not married, or a bunch of other reasons.
I should be more patient about this because I used to think this way too, but it really, really isn’t that hard to understand. Our society has just done a really good job brainwashing us all to think of sex as more important than air - and we “deserve” it whenever, however, with whoever, no limitations. :hypno:
ETA:
To sum up Catholic teaching on sexuality:
- What is sex for? What is its purpose? You don’t even have to be Catholic to know this, just have an understanding of biology. Sex creates new people.
- So don’t change sex in an attempt to avoid what it is for, and don’t engage in it if you can’t accept its natural consequences, because new people are a big responsibility.
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Lorelei12
Guest
I did not really understand this either until I got married, but being single and chaste and being married and chaste are two very different things. Once you are married, sharing your body and your home, your bed, finances, maybe children, basically everything, with your spouse, there is much more temptation. I can tell you that it IS more difficult, being married, when you need to abstain. And that is a good thing, because it means that you’re forced to re-examine all the time the reasons why.
If threads about NFP annoy you, you can always refrain from reading them. It is a concern particular to the married state of life. It annoys ME slightly when people say things like “well at least you get to have sex” or “at least you were able to get pregnant” or “at least you have a job” or “at least you get to be a SAHM”. Everyone has concerns, valid ones, about their own particular situation, and comparing two very different things or telling people to just be grateful isn’t helpful. We should all try to count our blessings, but that doesn’t mean that people don’t have their own particular crosses.
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Xantippe
Guest
That’s just not biologically very plausible, even if we allow the OP his hypothetical 22 year old mother of 6.
If the woman is ovulating (even very occasionally), there should be post-ovulatory phases available now and then–probably something in the neighborhood of 7-10 clearly infertile days at a time. Granted, if the woman has extremely irregular cycles and only a few ovulations a year (as perhaps might happen with PCOS), that might mean long gaps. But it’s definitely not going to be total abstinence from 22 until menopause.
Also, I have to point out that the OP assumes that the hypothetical couple can’t afford a cheap thermometer (which can be used for a very, very long time) but can afford 30 years of condoms. Weird.
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Memaw
Guest
Being in the state of serious sin for any reason is always very unhealthy. God Bless, Memaw
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ela2
Guest
What does this hypothetical mother feed her babies? Formula or breast milk? If formula…then she can also afford a fertility monitor. If breastfeeding, then she wouldn’t have had 6 babies in 9 years, maybe but very very rare. 
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PaulGH
Guest
And 9 years would assume she got married at 13, right, since the OP said she is 22? I was assuming she got married maybe at 17, and had 6 babies in 5 or 6 years, including at least one set of twins (if this couple is even real, which I am guessing they are not.) But in that case, your point about breastfeeding is even more relevant.What does this hypothetical mother feed her babies? Formula or breast milk? If formula…then she can also afford a fertility monitor. If breastfeeding, then she wouldn’t have had 6 babies in 9 years, maybe but very very rare.
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Aaahm28
Guest
A woman who has had too many children and has had no success with NFP is always exhausted in this selfish world. She begins to subconsciously despise her husband and decides to keep away from him as she realises that she is left with the big problem of raising children. She abstains from sex and if this couple never had a solid foundation their marriage will fall apart, they will get lonely and cracks will appear. The husband also tired by the children and lack of support from society and the church and work also willingly abstains by then. He to May resent her. They are both continually tired and arguments begin. Both of them revert to masturbation and the whole downward spiral begins. It ends up tragically and lonely, hardly what God wanted.
The Church promotes the ideal sexual act which is just that , an Ideal. The act ideally is a prayer and union with God where the man and the women deeply in love after the sacrament of marriage caress each other lovingly, in an unhurried manner and relaxed totally in freedom, until penetration occurs whereby the man especially must put in all the effort as an extra act of love to ensure for the woman to experience a massive transcendental multiple long lasting full body orgasm at the exact time as he does experience the same and ejaculation into the vagina occurs as both couples experience pleasure, love joy and relaxation as an expression of Gods gift to his creatures and the precious semen fertilises the egg and a holy baby is conceived in utter love.
Yes that is beautiful. Does it happen to everybody ? No. Does it happen every time ? No, it takes years of learning and loving to experience such love.
Sometimes the couple just needs a break from the stresses of daily life and worrying about NFP and want to pray together and make love for the evening without having to fear that children will result. When we were people living in a natural world thousands of years ago with natural diets and children were always required and the tribe looked after everybody and everyone lived like an extended family you just made love basically whenever with your wife or used breast feeding not to fall pregnant and infant mortality was high. Sure people were more in tune with their bodies and felt ovulation onset and perhaps avoided that time if they were still tired by life. Today children are placed in a high stress very demanding foreign world to produce workers and consumers of goods and to move progress along so that more wealth can be created for the rich hidden rulers of this world. There are too many unloved people being born and uncared for. The Church offers little support and pretends it doesn’t involve itself in state matters as it watches the family get decimated.
The church needs to support the marriage by supporting the sexual, communicative and child raising life as well as the spiritual life.
The Church promotes the ideal sexual act which is just that , an Ideal. The act ideally is a prayer and union with God where the man and the women deeply in love after the sacrament of marriage caress each other lovingly, in an unhurried manner and relaxed totally in freedom, until penetration occurs whereby the man especially must put in all the effort as an extra act of love to ensure for the woman to experience a massive transcendental multiple long lasting full body orgasm at the exact time as he does experience the same and ejaculation into the vagina occurs as both couples experience pleasure, love joy and relaxation as an expression of Gods gift to his creatures and the precious semen fertilises the egg and a holy baby is conceived in utter love.
Yes that is beautiful. Does it happen to everybody ? No. Does it happen every time ? No, it takes years of learning and loving to experience such love.
Sometimes the couple just needs a break from the stresses of daily life and worrying about NFP and want to pray together and make love for the evening without having to fear that children will result. When we were people living in a natural world thousands of years ago with natural diets and children were always required and the tribe looked after everybody and everyone lived like an extended family you just made love basically whenever with your wife or used breast feeding not to fall pregnant and infant mortality was high. Sure people were more in tune with their bodies and felt ovulation onset and perhaps avoided that time if they were still tired by life. Today children are placed in a high stress very demanding foreign world to produce workers and consumers of goods and to move progress along so that more wealth can be created for the rich hidden rulers of this world. There are too many unloved people being born and uncared for. The Church offers little support and pretends it doesn’t involve itself in state matters as it watches the family get decimated.
The church needs to support the marriage by supporting the sexual, communicative and child raising life as well as the spiritual life.
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Thorns
Guest
I understand that, but can you explain why a condom is a serious sin within a marriage? And why its still sin if the couple has a serious reason for it?
Is it because a condom is an artificial barrier? Are artificial barriers inherently evil and sinful? Look, even the Church shuts and locks its doors at night. That is an artificial barrier. Its also called being prudent to do so. Clothes are artificial barriers that prevent a man and wife from “becoming one flesh.” But clothes are not sinful either. But what if the man and woman engage in kissing and keep their clothes on? Then, the sex act and the completion of it are thwarted by this artificial barrier, yet the Church doesn’t have a problem with clothes.
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pensmama87
Guest
Choosing not to do something is not sinful. Deliberately changing how sex works is sinful.
I get the feeling you are being purposefully ridiculous.
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WingsOfEagles
Guest
I actually think it was a legit question. It’s a line of reasoning for a lot of Catholic’s who use birth control. I for years had this line of reasoning and had trouble with Church teaching on birth control.
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Thorns
Guest
Passionate kissing is sexual in nature and is part of the sex act. Kissing with clothes on and not moving past that is preventing intercourse while still participating in some of the aspects of sex.
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