Natural Family Planning dilemma

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Aaahm28 said:
A woman who has had too many children and has had no success with NFP is always exhausted in this selfish world. She begins to subconsciously despise her husband and decides to keep away from him as she realises that she is left with the big problem of raising children. She abstains from sex and if this couple never had a solid foundation their marriage will fall apart, they will get lonely and cracks will appear. The husband also tired by the children and lack of support from society and the church and work also willingly abstains by then. He to May resent her. They are both continually tired and arguments begin. Both of them revert to masturbation and the whole downward spiral begins. It ends up tragically and lonely, hardly what God wanted.

The Church promotes the ideal sexual act which is just that , an Ideal. The act ideally is a prayer and union with God where the man and the women deeply in love after the sacrament of marriage caress each other lovingly, in an unhurried manner and relaxed totally in freedom, until penetration occurs whereby the man especially must put in all the effort as an extra act of love to ensure for the woman to experience a massive transcendental multiple long lasting full body orgasm at the exact time as he does experience the same and ejaculation into the vagina occurs as both couples experience pleasure, love joy and relaxation as an expression of Gods gift to his creatures and the precious semen fertilises the egg and a holy baby is conceived in utter love.

Yes that is beautiful. Does it happen to everybody ? No. Does it happen every time ? No, it takes years of learning and loving to experience such love.

Sometimes the couple just needs a break from the stresses of daily life and worrying about NFP and want to pray together and make love for the evening without having to fear that children will result. When we were people living in a natural world thousands of years ago with natural diets and children were always required and the tribe looked after everybody and everyone lived like an extended family you just made love basically whenever with your wife or used breast feeding not to fall pregnant and infant mortality was high. Sure people were more in tune with their bodies and felt ovulation onset and perhaps avoided that time if they were still tired by life. Today children are placed in a high stress very demanding foreign world to produce workers and consumers of goods and to move progress along so that more wealth can be created for the rich hidden rulers of this world. There are too many unloved people being born and uncared for. The Church offers little support and pretends it doesn’t involve itself in state matters as it watches the family get decimated.

The church needs to support the marriage by supporting the sexual, communicative and child raising life as well as the spiritual life.
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Well, some people may agree with you, but as a mom of many close in age little ones I never despised my husband. I never blamed him for keeping me pregnant or viewed raising the kids as my job but instead as OUR job. Maybe a lot of women do feel that way. Enough here seem to post the disappointment in having so many unplanned kids and I’m reminded that it is a big problem. People say that all couples should be well versed in NFP to prevent feeling as you describe this wife feeling. I’ve been told that I’m the exception and not the rule in feeling that God’s plans are more important than mine so I just accept what He hands me. I find joy in living this life instead of allowing myself to give into the temptation to despair. No, it’s not always easy but what else can I do? Not one person here or in real life has been able to answer me when I ask: “What about those of us that NFP does not work for? What do you suggest we do?” My answer to myself has been that I just become thankful to God for the little lives He has entrusted to my husband and me, and now that it’s not possible to have more at the moment we will abstain. Life sucks, but I have hope that when this world is gone I will be in paradise with my loved ones. Hope brings about joy. People look at the Cross instead of the Reward and that is why so many become depressed. But still I would like someone to answer what a couple is supposed to do when NFP does not work for a couple and abstinence isn’t an option they are willing to embrace for one reason or another. And honestly even though it appears we as a couple will need to do just that, part of the vocation of marriage is intimacy between the spouses. We already are used to not having sex because we spend a lot of time apart, but a couple that is not used to that may experience huge problems.
 
Bitterhope I am sorry for the loss of your twins.

I would like to say to you that you are a hero. I will say a prayer from my heart for you and your family. An absolute hero.

Your question regarding what should a woman do if NFP does not work requires an answer.
It is what I am hammering on about on this forum. It is what I demand of the Church, the current Pope to answer. I suggest you write him a letter and explain your situation.

I would like to ask the other members of the forum who have ridiculed the topic, what is better?
  1. For a couple to have just enough children so that they can afford to raise them properly and feed, clothe and educate them, and have the time to spend with each one and allow them to experience their parents love?
Or
  1. Is it better for a couple to be completely tired, with not enough help, energy, resources to raise the children properly so that the children are raised instead by distant parents always busy with work or housework running the house for a large family and struggling to make ends meet.
If the answer is 1, and 2 is the only possibility for a woman for whom NFP does not work but still loves her husband, how can one say contraception that is not unhealthy is wrong?

Tell me is it more important that the Church teachings are followed or is it more important to raise the children properly.

Next thing is this.

For a priest to talk about family life like an authority is absolute rubbish. Only a priest that has himself helped make multiple children and who has to raise them with a woman knows what family life is about.

Yet one other thing:

Abstinence makes sense when you are abstaining from sex when you have no significant other person to love. Abstinence when you meet your spouse with whom you share a life and whom you deeply love takes on a sick character if it is for an extended period.

Tell me how can true lovers in God abstain from each other? It would be sick if they did. Love wants to unite, love wants to be one. The Church forces people for whom NFP does not work , but who are still open to children to abstain from each other if they cannot afford more children. THIS is sick. Some couples simply cannot have more children in order to love each of them as they should with material care, education and resources and time spent with with them forming bonds. How can you tell two religious people who love God dearly and one another to abstain from each other. To abstain from making Love indefinitely and then saying they will be saints? Ridiculous.

Do you think God would prefer to see a large family of unloved children or a smaller family of really loved children who’s parents use some form of contraception such as NFP.

I say it’s not ideal that contraception should be used , I say it’s even wrong in many circumstances to use contraception. However I believe flexibility and reason is required , if a couple has already got 4 kids in this overpopulated difficult world and do not really want anymore but won’t say no if it did happen, them a couple like that should have a reliable contraceptive method while not ideally fulfilling the sexual act is a necessary compromise to prevent a greater evil from occurring but that the sexual act should not be called sinful.
 
Aaahm28 said:
Bitterhope I am sorry for the loss of your twins.

I would like to say to you that you are a hero. I will say a prayer from my heart for you and your family. An absolute hero.

Your question regarding what should a woman do if NFP does not work requires an answer.
It is what I am hammering on about on this forum. It is what I demand of the Church, the current Pope to answer. I suggest you write him a letter and explain your situation.

I would like to ask the other members of the forum who have ridiculed the topic, what is better?
  1. For a couple to have just enough children so that they can afford to raise them properly and feed, clothe and educate them, and have the time to spend with each one and allow them to experience their parents love?
Or
  1. Is it better for a couple to be completely tired, with not enough help, energy, resources to raise the children properly so that the children are raised instead by distant parents always busy with work or housework running the house for a large family and struggling to make ends meet.
If the answer is 1, and 2 is the only possibility for a woman for whom NFP does not work but still loves her husband, how can one say contraception that is not unhealthy is wrong?

Tell me is it more important that the Church teachings are followed or is it more important to raise the children properly.

Next thing is this.

For a priest to talk about family life like an authority is absolute rubbish. Only a priest that has himself helped make multiple children and who has to raise them with a woman knows what family life is about.

Yet one other thing:

Abstinence makes sense when you are abstaining from sex when you have no significant other person to love. Abstinence when you meet your spouse with whom you share a life and whom you deeply love takes on a sick character if it is for an extended period.

Tell me how can true lovers in God abstain from each other? It would be sick if they did. Love wants to unite, love wants to be one. The Church forces people for whom NFP does not work , but who are still open to children to abstain from each other if they cannot afford more children. THIS is sick. Some couples simply cannot have more children in order to love each of them as they should with material care, education and resources and time spent with with them forming bonds. How can you tell two religious people who love God dearly and one another to abstain from each other. To abstain from making Love indefinitely and then saying they will be saints? Ridiculous.

Do you think God would prefer to see a large family of unloved children or a smaller family of really loved children who’s parents use some form of contraception such as NFP.

I say it’s not ideal that contraception should be used , I say it’s even wrong in many circumstances to use contraception. However I believe flexibility and reason is required , if a couple has already got 4 kids in this overpopulated difficult world and do not really want anymore but won’t say no if it did happen, them a couple like that should have a reliable contraceptive method while not ideally fulfilling the sexual act is a necessary compromise to prevent a greater evil from occurring but that the sexual act should not be called sinful.
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Thank you. But honestly I am not a hero. I have done nothing special. I don’t do anything that everybody else can do. It is really important for people to understand that it really is possible to raise a lot of kids and love them all, know them all, and be happy. Birth control is wrong, not accepting God’s will is wrong as well. It is hard. But you know, I’ve seen so many moms with two or three kids that have it just as hard or even harder. Artificial birth control is wrong and I don’t see it ever being allowed. I pray it never is. But I do hope that people will acknowledge that for some people, NFP does not work. Some women’s bodies do not show definitive signs of ovulation. Some women can and have ovulated more than once in a cycle–and not within 24 hours of each other. Sometimes God has more children in mind than we do. I have come to a point in life where I honestly believe that NFP works beautifully for people that truly need it to because God wills it, and doesn’t work for the rest of us. I wish people would acknowledge that it doesn’t work for all of us and offer support. Instead what happens in most circumstances is a mom says that she is tired and needs help, and is told that it’s OK to use NFP. When it becomes obvious that NFP is not “being done correctly” because it can’t be anything but the couples’ fault it’s not working, people tell the couple, “Surely in your case the church would say birth control is alright.”

Support in real life from people that truly care is what is needed. There are too many moms that struggle on their own with only 1 or 2 little ones and panic at the thought of another because there is no support for them. I would love more research done on human fertility–especially female fertility. Neither of these is likely to happen anytime soon, so in the mean time please just quit faulting couples that fail at NFP (it honestly fails them), stop faulting couples that decide to use ABC, and PLEASE STOP suggesting that it is the only solution! It is not. And ideally no one would use any type of family planning. It isn’t necessary for the majority of people if they had the support (see how it all comes back to that?) to begin with.
 
One other thing–my husband is struggling right now spiritually for several reasons. His faith is weakening. Please pray for him and his struggles. He has always been my main support and now we are both struggling and he is away from home on military duty. Please pray for him and our family. Thank you
 
Aaahm28 said:
For a priest to talk about family life like an authority is absolute rubbish. Only a priest that has himself helped make multiple children and who has to raise them with a woman knows what family life is about.
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Eh, I think that is incorrect.

While I had some downtown (husband and two kids gone on a trip) I have been going through the archives at No Longer Quivering, the group blog for former members of fundamentalist Quiverfull churches.

patheos.com/blogs/nolongerquivering/

I challenge you to read some of the stories and quotes from there and compare them with the average pastoral care Catholics get. The mere fact that some of these extreme pastors are fathers of large families does not qualify them to speak on family life–some of them are oppressive and unhelpful at home (see, for example, the series of blog reviews on the book “Called to Be His Helpmeet”). As anybody can tell you, the act of begetting children is a pretty minimal accomplishment–the test is what kind of father a man is to those children and what kind of husband he is to his wife.

In my experience, the average Catholic priest is far more sympathetic to family issues and women’s issues.

Go make an appointment with one and talk about your concerns.
 
Aaahm28 said:
Bitterhope I am sorry for the loss of your twins.

I would like to say to you that you are a hero. I will say a prayer from my heart for you and your family. An absolute hero.

Your question regarding what should a woman do if NFP does not work requires an answer.
It is what I am hammering on about on this forum. It is what I demand of the Church, the current Pope to answer. I suggest you write him a letter and explain your situation.

I would like to ask the other members of the forum who have ridiculed the topic, what is better?
  1. For a couple to have just enough children so that they can afford to raise them properly and feed, clothe and educate them, and have the time to spend with each one and allow them to experience their parents love?
Or
  1. Is it better for a couple to be completely tired, with not enough help, energy, resources to raise the children properly so that the children are raised instead by distant parents always busy with work or housework running the house for a large family and struggling to make ends meet.
If the answer is 1, and 2 is the only possibility for a woman for whom NFP does not work but still loves her husband, how can one say contraception that is not unhealthy is wrong?

Tell me is it more important that the Church teachings are followed or is it more important to raise the children properly.
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In other words, your argument is that since A leads to a difficult situation while B avoids it, B must therefore be moral.

The problem being Christ did not every say we would have easy pleasant lives here on earth, instead, he said we would be persecuted, that he was not bringing peace, but the sword, he told us to take up our cross, and follow him, not to do whatever it takes to have an easy pleasant life.

If your argument were sufficient to prove something moral then I can prove that all sorts of horrible things like divorce, murder, abortion, torture are moral. All I need to do is come up with a sufficiently remote hypothetical example where the consequences of not doing these things would make someones life too difficult, and then, according to your own method of argument, voila, all of a sudden murder must be moral.

For instance, what about the example of a poor homeless man whose family is starving, who has done everything he can to get aid both from the government and from others, to no avail. He does his best to get food through begging, but his children are still starving, its not enough. Now, this same man knows that he is the recipient of a distant relatives will and that if that distant relative would only die he would now be able to provide for his family. So, he is left with these two scenarios.

A: continue in his current state and watch his wife and children suffer horribly.

or

B: kill his distant relative so that he can provide for his family and end their suffering.

Since scenario A is a horribly difficult scenario, one that is clearly not the ideal that God wants, clearly that means option B must be moral, right?

(If you haven’t guessed already, the answer is no, that is not right, because this is not a valid way of arguing for or against the morality of an action. Its a great piece of rhetoric, pulling on people’s emotions, but it doesn’t actually argue for the morality of the action in question at all.)
Next thing is this.
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For a priest to talk about family life like an authority is absolute rubbish. Only a priest that has himself helped make multiple children and who has to raise them with a woman knows what family life is about.
Click to expand...
Do you hold marital and family therapists to the same standard? Do you insist that despite their training, unless they are married or have been married they have no authority to speak about family life? Or does the fact that they have studied and received training about these matters still give them some authority? If you agree that their study and learning has given them some authority here then you must grant the same for priests, to the extent that they have studied and learned about marriage and how different things affect it they have authority to speak about it. (Also, just FYI, not all Catholic priests are unmarried)

[cont…]
 
…cont]
Yet one other thing:
Click to expand...
Abstinence makes sense when you are abstaining from sex when you have no significant other person to love. Abstinence when you meet your spouse with whom you share a life and whom you deeply love takes on a sick character if it is for an extended period.
Click to expand...
Tell me how can true lovers in God abstain from each other? It would be sick if they did. Love wants to unite, love wants to be one. The Church forces people for whom NFP does not work , but who are still open to children to abstain from each other if they cannot afford more children. THIS is sick. Some couples simply cannot have more children in order to love each of them as they should with material care, education and resources and time spent with with them forming bonds. How can you tell two religious people who love God dearly and one another to abstain from each other. To abstain from making Love indefinitely and then saying they will be saints? Ridiculous.
Click to expand...
Do you think God would prefer to see a large family of unloved children or a smaller family of really loved children who’s parents use some form of contraception such as NFP.
Click to expand...
I say it’s not ideal that contraception should be used , I say it’s even wrong in many circumstances to use contraception. However I believe flexibility and reason is required , if a couple has already got 4 kids in this overpopulated difficult world and do not really want anymore but won’t say no if it did happen, them a couple like that should have a reliable contraceptive method while not ideally fulfilling the sexual act is a necessary compromise to prevent a greater evil from occurring but that the sexual act should not be called sinful.
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Again, you are using rhetoric and appealing to emotions to try and get people to say contraception can be ok without relying on a solid argument. God permits all kind of evils and expects His followers to suffer through them, to take up their cross and follow Him. There are children being beheaded by ISIS right now, as well as many innocents being shot and crucified simply because they are Christians and will not renounce their Christian faith. If it is sinful to renounce your faith and belief in Christ even in the face of torture and death then how can you claim that abstinence, even for a married couple, even for a long time, is a sufficient enough evil to allow them an exception to a set rule of morality. How does abstinence, even for an extended period of time, come even close to the evil of torture and death? The reality? It doesn’t. Yet it is still sinful to renounce Christ and His church, even in the face of torture and death. If torture and death isn’t enough to change the morality of renouncing the Christian faith you better believe abstinence isn’t enough of an evil to change the morality of the use of contraception. Sometimes life is just plain hard. And in those times all you can do is to turn to Christ, beg Him for the strength, and then pick up your cross and follow Him.
 
Aaahm28 said:
Bitterhope I am sorry for the loss of your twins.

I would like to say to you that you are a hero. I will say a prayer from my heart for you and your family. An absolute hero.

Your question regarding what should a woman do if NFP does not work requires an answer.
It is what I am hammering on about on this forum. It is what I demand of the Church, the current Pope to answer. I suggest you write him a letter and explain your situation.

I would like to ask the other members of the forum who have ridiculed the topic, what is better?
  1. For a couple to have just enough children so that they can afford to raise them properly and feed, clothe and educate them, and have the time to spend with each one and allow them to experience their parents love?
Or
  1. Is it better for a couple to be completely tired, with not enough help, energy, resources to raise the children properly so that the children are raised instead by distant parents always busy with work or housework running the house for a large family and struggling to make ends meet.
If the answer is 1, and 2 is the only possibility for a woman for whom NFP does not work but still loves her husband, how can one say contraception that is not unhealthy is wrong?

Tell me is it more important that the Church teachings are followed or is it more important to raise the children properly.

Next thing is this.

For a priest to talk about family life like an authority is absolute rubbish. Only a priest that has himself helped make multiple children and who has to raise them with a woman knows what family life is about.

Yet one other thing:

Abstinence makes sense when you are abstaining from sex when you have no significant other person to love. Abstinence when you meet your spouse with whom you share a life and whom you deeply love takes on a sick character if it is for an extended period.

Tell me how can true lovers in God abstain from each other? It would be sick if they did. Love wants to unite, love wants to be one. The Church forces people for whom NFP does not work , but who are still open to children to abstain from each other if they cannot afford more children. THIS is sick. Some couples simply cannot have more children in order to love each of them as they should with material care, education and resources and time spent with with them forming bonds. How can you tell two religious people who love God dearly and one another to abstain from each other. To abstain from making Love indefinitely and then saying they will be saints? Ridiculous.

Do you think God would prefer to see a large family of unloved children or a smaller family of really loved children who’s parents use some form of contraception such as NFP.

I say it’s not ideal that contraception should be used , I say it’s even wrong in many circumstances to use contraception. However I believe flexibility and reason is required , if a couple has already got 4 kids in this overpopulated difficult world and do not really want anymore but won’t say no if it did happen, them a couple like that should have a reliable contraceptive method while not ideally fulfilling the sexual act is a necessary compromise to prevent a greater evil from occurring but that the sexual act should not be called sinful.
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I agree with Aaahm 28, I think in those circumstances condoms should be allowed to be used.
 
Burdock said:
I agree with Aaahm 28, I think in those circumstances condoms should be allowed to be used.
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You both are not thinking with the Church and need to talk to a priest. When I sin, I know I am wrong and I don’t blame the Church for my sins or think the Church should accept my sins so I can go on sinning. God Bless, Memaw
 
SorryMemaw, buti wont be talking to a priest about it, its between me and god.I know its what the church teaches, people cant be expected to keep having children, and its not acceptable or natural to have to completely abstain.
 
thewanderer said:
In other words, your argument is that since A leads to a difficult situation while B avoids it, B must therefore be moral.

The problem being Christ did not every say we would have easy pleasant lives here on earth, instead, he said we would be persecuted, that he was not bringing peace, but the sword, he told us to take up our cross, and follow him, not to do whatever it takes to have an easy pleasant life.

If your argument were sufficient to prove something moral then I can prove that all sorts of horrible things like divorce, murder, abortion, torture are moral. All I need to do is come up with a sufficiently remote hypothetical example where the consequences of not doing these things would make someones life too difficult, and then, according to your own method of argument, voila, all of a sudden murder must be moral.

For instance, what about the example of a poor homeless man whose family is starving, who has done everything he can to get aid both from the government and from others, to no avail. He does his best to get food through begging, but his children are still starving, its not enough. Now, this same man knows that he is the recipient of a distant relatives will and that if that distant relative would only die he would now be able to provide for his family. So, he is left with these two scenarios.

A: continue in his current state and watch his wife and children suffer horribly.

or

B: kill his distant relative so that he can provide for his family and end their suffering.

Since scenario A is a horribly difficult scenario, one that is clearly not the ideal that God wants, clearly that means option B must be moral, right?

(If you haven’t guessed already, the answer is no, that is not right, because this is not a valid way of arguing for or against the morality of an action. Its a great piece of rhetoric, pulling on people’s emotions, but it doesn’t actually argue for the morality of the action in question at all.)

Do you hold marital and family therapists to the same standard? Do you insist that despite their training, unless they are married or have been married they have no authority to speak about family life? Or does the fact that they have studied and received training about these matters still give them some authority? If you agree that their study and learning has given them some authority here then you must grant the same for priests, to the extent that they have studied and learned about marriage and how different things affect it they have authority to speak about it. (Also, just FYI, not all Catholic priests are unmarried)

[cont…]
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1st point, go to that rich relative and tell him that your kids are starving and he is now responsible for saving their life or killing them. If he opts not to share his wealth which is not required for any purpose greater such as saving the lives of others deemed by him more important than your children, and it was really just that , that stops the children from starving to death , then by doing so he is murdering your children. You would be quite justified in stealing his wealth from him by force, to save innocent life. If you could not do that and you really need to feed your children, and killing him would save the children and not affect anybody else or anything else then I would say there could be a moral case.

For instance two innocent children are in a Hitler concentration camp and are dying, the only way to free them is to kill Hitler, do you do it to save their life?

2nd point, if your therapists have no children of their own and raise them properly as a child should be raised, no I would not regard their information as highly as I would a therapist who does have children
 
Your ISIS example is very relevant. That bunch of psychopaths are pure evil and I want to know where the heavy millions of dollars are coming from that is causing that false form of Islam to spread and become stronger. There is a group of incredibly intelligent and wealthy people that have helped form and organise ISIS and their hidden motives are not yet totally apparent, but they are creating an utterly false Islam that was never the intention of the prophet Mohammed.

If some ISIS guy came up to me and asked me to renounce my Christian faith or die I would very easily mouth the words required to survive, knowing that in my heart my faith stands rock solid. I am not Peter who could have shown his love for Jesus by being a companion in death. Jesus does not require this to be done anymore. Jesus loved Peter irrespective. Don’t forget that Peter did follow Jesus and tried to be close to him. Peter did not really betray Jesus in his heart and Jesus knew this.

If they ISIS are going to kill you anyway then no point in renouncing but while you have a chance to survive, to help someone another day and to later overthrow evil, that’s the moral thing to do. Not to be beheaded by an idiot so that tomorrow you can’t help a child stop being beheaded. One has to be smarter then evil and outwit it even by lying to it.

But that rubbish called ISIS would kill anyway.

There are marriages and break up and children that have a miserable life because NFP fails. Once a couple has been fruitful and multiplied and love each other , spacing children with a condom for instance and or by withdrawal and ejaculation outside the vagina should be no different then NFP for couples for whom NFP does not work. Especially if having more children would endanger the children. It’s not ideal but at least the unitive aspect is there. The most important thing is that they look after the children they have, not say they will never have more and never say that the ideal version of sex that the church promotes is evil or wrong. It’s should be enough to say God please forgive us that we occasionally use a condom but NFP does not work for us and we fear that abstinence would cause a greater harm and pregnancy at this time would be tragic. if that is not Good enough and I agree its not if alternate means are available, then The church should provide for these couples some medical intervention method alternative means so that the couple can go to a church medical doctor and retreat facility to see if the woman is ovulating and if she is not, to just make love right there in a private room prepared for that once a month so THAT the marriage does not break down due to lack of love expressed through sex. Where is that pastoral care for the couple with extreme problems with NFP where normal domestic methods do not work? Is it ludicrous?

Where is the care from the Church, not Church goers to children of large families who have to pay fees at catholic schools that are exorbitant?

You mentioned ISIS what about what the Church is responsible for. If you think the Church hierarchy cares so much about saving people from death look at the Church response to abortion, just words and letters to politicians, but they would never take the extreme actions that could stop abortion immediately? If the Pope wanted he could tell Catholics go and peacefully march to your parliament, Block the main city street or highway and don’t move until abortion is banned. If a million Catholics suddenly pitched up and blocked Wall Street do you think there wouldn’t be an immediate ban on abortions? If a million people pitched up and demolished an abortion centre brick by brick without harming anyone and the Pope said that any cop that arrested them would be excommunicated do you think they would listen? There are lots of non violent ways to shake a evil system down to a halt. None are promoted? Why?

I will tell you why because the Church knows that in a country like Australia if they banned abortion all of a sudden you would have 100000 adoptions to organise and they know that homes would not be found for the children and that the state would not provide the food and the education and care for those babies saved from abortion and neither would the Church. They know that the nuns they have are old ladies unable to look after so many children. They know that they would have to begin some form of forced labour using those children as they grow up to pay their own way as they have done in the past with catholic laundries or selling children at massive profits to rich couples and or supplying pedophiles as they have done in the past. That is why the Church does not really do what it should about abortions but accepts the sinful situation as a the lesser of two evils.

Why do you think they covered up child abuse so long! Pretended it was not happening? They did not want to loose the huge sums of money. They did not want people to stop paying at mass. Why should my parish be paying the court costs and settlements to abused children for a priest that the Church knew was a problem and did not arrest and defrock but allowed them to continue their evil? Let the priest pay.

I am just angry that the Church today in no way or form resembles the communities of love and care that Christ created. We are alienated and divided and it’s every man for himself.
 
Burdock said:
SorryMemaw, buti wont be talking to a priest about it, its between me and god.I know its what the church teaches, people cant be expected to keep having children, and its not acceptable or natural to have to completely abstain.
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Since you know more that the Church and God, I guess anything I could say would serve no purpose. I will keep you in my prayers and your misguided piety. God Bless, Memaw
 
Aaahm28,

At least you are consistent in believing that the ends justify the means and that a person must have a family of their own to be an authority on families. I disagree with you, as does the Church, but consistency is a good thing.

As for the rest of your post… where did all of that come from and why is it applicable to anything I said? Honestly, it sounds like you’re just here to rant against the Church because you have a bone to pick with Her. Do you actually want a discussion? Or are you just here to rant?
 
This topic is always going to cause difficulties. A large number of catholics do use some sort of contraception, I know its against church teaching . It is something that could be changed, a lot of catholics think the same.
 
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