Natural Family Planning for "Serious" Reasons

[bitterhope]

I don’t know about in your family, but my husband DOES experience morning sickness. It is a something that some men do go through and according to every OB I have ever had, it’s not really that uncommon of an occurrence. We ladies don’t have a monopoly on pregnancy related problems. Our husbands deserve more respect than to have their hardships discarded like that. They are a major part of this stage of life as well.

 

[Xantippe]

You might tell me that in real life as a former nfp teacher and an avid conversationalist it never surprises what people say to me. I know more about sex lifes and cycles of my friends and family than I should.

I’m a pretty private person in real life, so the chance of that happening would be 0.0000000001%.

In real life, I’m verbally very vague about family planning. I normally just give non-answers to nosy questions from well-wishers. The furthest I’ve gone, I think was when somebody (who actually reminds me a lot of you in terms of personality) seemed disappointed that we only had two kids at the time, I said something like “Big Girl is a tough kid.” (I.E., Big Girl has an autism spectrum diagnosis, was having multi-hour tantrums at the time, and had her teachers tied in knots.)

I know barely anything about any real life friends’ or relatives’ sex life and thank goodness for that.

 

[ThePCWife]

Continuously stating that people who have baby after baby despite poverty and severe health issues are always doing so for good, moral, licit reasons is also untrue and misleading. Some people are selfish and frivolous in the other direction, having children with no care as to even the immediate provision of the rest of the household.

Having two babies a year is physically possible, but the question of whether it’s really being open to life is a legitimate one, as having two babies a year can compromise the physical health of both babies and mother, as a common example of hiding behind a fig leaf while indulging a different kind of idol.

 

[pensmama87]

Continuously stating that people who have baby after baby despite poverty and severe health issues are always doing so for good, moral, licit reasons is also untrue and misleading. Some people are selfish and frivolous in the other direction, having children with no care as to even the immediate provision of the rest of the household.

Having two babies a year is physically possible, but the question of whether it’s really being open to life is a legitimate one, as having two babies a year can compromise the physical health of both babies and mother, as a common example of hiding behind a fig leaf while indulging a different kind of idol.

As I said earlier in the thread, I’m learning that I am not nearly as good at self-control as I thought I was, since the pregnancy/breastfeeding hormonal craziness has died down.

There are many ways to grow in virtue. For the first six years of our marriage DH and I did one way. Now we’re trying another.

 

[Xantippe]

Many people are very serious in their selfish and worldly desires and unafraid to share way too much. Many women won’t and some can’t take hormonal contraceptives and latex allergies are not that unusual. Others just don’t like the available ABC methods for whatever reason. I am not sure what makes posters on CAF so sure that everyone has trouble abstaining for reasons that aren’t serious or grave or life threatening. To many people, lifestyle threatening holds more weight than anything medical. They avoid, avoid, avoid and then they get medical help to have a baby. Often the try for a baby once their health is in decline rather than fear for their health. It’s all about being in control of every aspect of our worldly life, and for several couples that is the draw towards NFP. It puts them in control of all aspects, including their urges. Of course that isn’t the case for everyone and I agree many Catholic couples would not ever dream of that. Continuously stating it is next to impossible for anyone to misuse NFP, though, is simply untrue. And illogical.

Eh, I think there some issues with using over-sharers for one’s data pool.

People who don’t talk about their private business in real life are likely to be rather different than those who yack yack yack about it.

 

[Hoosier_Daddy]

Eh, if it doesn’t work out for them, they’ll get sterilized.

I don’t think it’s an apples to apples comparison.

Here is an Interesting nfp thing. As you know, we used abc then nfp, then nothing. When we started nfp there were three teaching couples in our state. The couple we learned from and then mentored us in our short lived teaching if nfp were Mormon. In our nfp class of 12 couples. Two were catholic including us . The rest were Mormon. The class was held in a local Catholic Church.

Fast forward to now. There is one teaching couple in our entire state and they rarely have a class. But yet I find many others who are not catholic who know and use nfp. Are they self taught? Perhaps, in fact I’m sure the “crunchy” ones are. But what if the high number of lds families that use nfp?

I was currious as to why so many people Seemed to practice it but finding a C2CL or other method class was almost impossible!

The answer. The lds churches have apparently taken the nfp idea “in house” My Mormon friends are learning it in thier wards.
I would love to get my hands on thier teaching materials just out of curiosity.

 

[bitterhope]

Continuously stating that people who have baby after baby despite poverty and severe health issues are always doing so for good, moral, licit reasons is also untrue and misleading. Some people are selfish and frivolous in the other direction, having children with no care as to even the immediate provision of the rest of the household.

Having two babies a year is physically possible, but the question of whether it’s really being open to life is a legitimate one, as having two babies a year can compromise the physical health of both babies and mother, as a common example of hiding behind a fig leaf while indulging a different kind of idol.

Who said that a couple having more kids is ALWAYS a good thing? Not a single poster has stated such a thing here. But one did say having X number on X income or less is selfish, and no exceptions were made by him/her.

 

[Mary_Gail_36]

Here is an Interesting nfp thing. As you know, we used abc then nfp, then nothing. When we started nfp there were three teaching couples in our state. The couple we learned from and then mentored us in our short lived teaching if nfp were Mormon. In our nfp class of 12 couples. Two were catholic including us . The rest were Mormon. The class was held in a local Catholic Church.

Fast forward to now. There is one teaching couple in our entire state and they rarely have a class. But yet I find many others who are not catholic who know and use nfp. Are they self taught? Perhaps, in fact I’m sure the “crunchy” ones are. But what if the high number of lds families that use nfp?

I was currious as to why so many people Seemed to practice it but finding a C2CL or other method class was almost impossible!

The answer. The lds churches have apparently taken the nfp idea “in house” My Mormon friends are learning it in thier wards.
I would love to get my hands on thier teaching materials just out of curiosity.

Maybe Billings?

I’m not very familiar with the Mormon faith, are they permitted to use contraceptives?

 

[AClaire11]

It’s hard because this subject in particular is do loaded, situational, and private. But judgement goes both ways here.
I think it’s better to not cite paycheck to paycheck as a reason. For the vast majority of the world and history we bring forth children into sheer opulence compared to others. God asks us to be generous with life. It’s up to a couple to judge what that means. Ultimately, God is the only one that reason matters to. I’d have a hard time telling him my first two didn’t have college paid for because we had four more and that is something I regret…

We have number six on the way. Paying for college went out the door a long time ago. So did private ski lessons.

I will never forget my mother somberly taking me aside when we announced our third and telling me I should think about the cost of three kids skiing. As if that should factor into my wife and I’s bedroom habits.

I said it’s a valid reason, not that people who don’t choose to do so are irresponsible. We’re living paycheck to paycheck and trying for #2. That said, I don’t think we will have more than three unless we can move somewhere much cheaper where we can live in a house.

 

[Hoosier_Daddy]

I don’t know about in your family, but my husband DOES experience morning sickness. It is a something that some men do go through and according to every OB I have ever had, it’s not really that uncommon of an occurrence. We have ladies don’t have a monopoly on pregnancy related problems. Our husbands deserve more respect than to have their hardships discarded like that. They are a major part of this stage of life as well.

Good point. This is one husband who has cleaned up more blood and “morning sickness” than anybody on these boards. I’d put money on that!

 

[Hoosier_Daddy]

Maybe Billings?

I’m not very familiar with the Mormon faith, are they permitted to use contraceptives?

Yes. They can but they seem to be really warming to nfp.

Can’t say the same for Catholics round these parts…:
In the Midwest however there was an nfp instructor on every corner!

 

[bitterhope]

I said it’s a valid reason, not that people who don’t choose to do so are irresponsible. We’re living paycheck to paycheck and trying for #2. That said, I don’t think we will have more than three unless we can move somewhere much cheaper where we can live in a house.

For the record, you were not the poster I was referring to in my other post.

 

[Xantippe]

Yes. They can but they seem to be really warming to nfp.

Can’t say the same for Catholics round these parts…:
In the Midwest however there was an nfp instructor on every corner!

Well, the Catholic NFP two-step can be pretty disorienting for the newbie.

First Step: You don’t need contraception–you can use NFP if you have serious reasons!

Second Step: There are no serious reasons!

 

[bitterhope]

Yes. They can but they seem to be really warming to nfp.

Can’t say the same for Catholics round these parts…:
In the Midwest however there was an nfp instructor on every corner!

Several instructors in the south as well. There are three teachers in our very small (under 250 people) parish. They are three of 12 in our diocese. However, they all complain they have no students. My sister teaches Creighton and has several students, but most are non Catholics.

 

[bitterhope]

Well, the Catholic NFP two-step can be pretty disorienting for the newbie.

First Step: You don’t need contraception–you can use NFP if you have serious reasons!

Second Step: There are no serious reasons!

That’s just silly. No one has stated that there are no serious reasons. Many posters, however, have stated that it is impossible to misuse.

 

[AClaire11]

Continuously stating that people who have baby after baby despite poverty and severe health issues are always doing so for good, moral, licit reasons is also untrue and misleading. Some people are selfish and frivolous in the other direction, having children with no care as to even the immediate provision of the rest of the household.

Having two babies a year is physically possible, but the question of whether it’s really being open to life is a legitimate one, as having two babies a year can compromise the physical health of both babies and mother, as a common example of hiding behind a fig leaf while indulging a different kind of idol.

Yes, I recently saw an article about the possibility that some quiverfull moms might be somehow addicted to pregnancy and babies.

And I am really tired of people acting like it’s selfish to only have the amount of kids you can provide with what you consider a decent standard of living. Not everyone wants to eat beans every day…

 

[Hoosier_Daddy]

This is a beautiful story. I will pray that the ending is as beautiful as the beginning.

Thank you.

 

[Mary_Gail_36]

That’s just silly. No one has stated that there are no serious reasons. Many posters, however, have stated that it is impossible to misuse.

I read it as a joke.

 

[Hoosier_Daddy]

I’m a pretty private person in real life, so the chance of that happening would be 0.0000000001%.

In real life, I’m verbally very vague about family planning. I normally just give non-answers to nosy questions from well-wishers. The furthest I’ve gone, I think was when somebody (who actually reminds me a lot of you in terms of personality) seemed disappointed that we only had two kids at the time, I said something like “Big Girl is a tough kid.” (I.E., Big Girl has an autism spectrum diagnosis, was having multi-hour tantrums at the time, and had her teachers tied in knots.)

I know barely anything about any real life friends’ or relatives’ sex life and thank goodness for that.

I have a hard time believing you are a private person.

 

[pensmama87]

Many posters, however, have stated that it is impossible to misuse.

Really?

I think there’s more nuance to it than that.

I will admit that I don’t find the “real life” examples of “selfish NFP” given on this thread very convincing as such. Evidence of misguided people still trying to do what they think is responsible, yes. Selfish, no.

ETA: Actually, I think I supplied the example of the spouse who withholds sex using NFP as the excuse. That I can readily see, if one uses it in this way at the expense of their spouse. But to me, that’s not about NFP but about the lack of trust and intimacy.

That’s not to say some couples don’t try it for a while and realize it’s not what they need and so quit. But I wouldn’t call that selfish, either - the starting or the quitting.