Natural Family Planning (NFP) method of spacing conception is approved by the Church for grave reasons and only for a short time?

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We read that the latest scientific finding says that “men think love is physical contact” and women think love is…" and then we all jump on the bandwagon and say. “Yeah, that must be true.”
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But it’s not just scientific findings, it’s what you see in nature. I see the girls in the family always talking on the phone, and men at the bars falsely looking for love and sex. Which are basic gender differences/traits, and I think the self-control moves us away from nature and basic desires. Which isn’t a bad thing, the self control helps us to grow.

After duking it out with my sister I finally get the “being open to god about my kids”. So is it a loophole, if after two kids I start practicing NFP rigorously even though I would be open to a third? I do see how beautiful that type of mindset (open to life) would be to a marraige. And what if I’m 50? Isn’t it irresponsible to bring a kid into the world after a certain age?

Trust me I have a lot of hurdles to overcome. My family is in California so my goal is to stay here. I’ve got to save up $60,000 for a down payment on a tiny studio. I don’t want my kids to go to daycare, so that is going to be on a single income family.
 
one thing that has been nice for us is we’ve hardly HAD to practice NFP. i read a book called Breastfeeding and Natural ChildSpacing by Sheila Kippley. her advice worked for me and i’ve had count them: 9 periods in 4 years of marriage. I am going to resume charing right now though as i just got my first cycle since giving birth last year.

another thought: try to be open to where God wants you to raise your family. we began a daily rosary on new years for God to show us where the best place to raise our family was…a whirlwind came and we are now living 5 states away from where we were on new year’s. all our family is back in the other state but this is clearly where God thinks is the best place for us and I couldn’t agree more. it is funny how God’s will for you is what will make you the happiest;)

i think the main lesson in all of it is being open to God’s will in all areas of life
 
**This all brings to mind *(for me at least) the church hymn titled “Be not Afraid”. The next words are “I go before you always, come follow me…” My point here is that we cannot live in fear of what the future may/may not hold. Only God knows how many kids we should have, only God knows where we will be living in 5 years (you’d be surprised at what may happen), only God knows if your kids will want to go to college. Basically so many people these days live in constant fear and worry of what the future holds. Let go and let God! :dancing: If you practice NFP, you are still open to the possibility of new life, however only God knows if that time is the right time for your family to have more children or not, NFP does work, I will say that. But through practicing it, you are still obeying the teachings of the CC and in doing so strengthening your marriage at the same time. :extrahappy: Nobody said you should have 3, 4, or 5 kids, that is not what we are saying. But by practicing NFP you are telling God that you will do His will. 😉 **
 
This may seem irrelevant to the discussion but I sometimes take issue with the statement: “I do such and such (or believe this, or practice something) because I am a Catholic.”

Let me know if this is heresy but I do not do Catholic things because I am a Catholic. Rather I am a Catholic because these things are the sanest and truest beliefs, practices, and actions that I have ever found in this imperfect world, and these things bring me closer to happiness and purpose and THAT brings me closer to God.

Many Catholic practices, such as NFP, are practiced by other people in the world, not always with the same focus or intent but nonetheless in an individual’s or group’s desire to be open to life. The concepts of respect for life, while strongly defended by the Church, are not like rules for an elite group but rather are natural laws that create the most harmony and truth for the most people, Catholic or not. And many people of the world understand this, and respect this, even if they are not of our Church…except some of the more affluent who have tried to make a big dent in our thinking and behavior in the last 50 years or so. Incidentally, my mother’s role model for a large family was a Jewish family of 12.

Anyone care to disagree or lecture me on obedience? I have always felt that the best way to abide by the law is to understand the deeper meaning of the law.
 
One always has to realize that the Catholic interpretations of marriage and sex and contraception have been made by celibate males. It is like non-drivers making all the traffic rules. With all due respect, Bishops don’t have a clue about marriage and sex. I have been married for 54 years , have seven children and can bring more experience to the subject of marriage and conjugal love than the entire episcopacy. The Church’s position on contraception is just wrong. Call me a heretic !!!
 
Bob_Byrnes said:
One always has to realize that the Catholic interpretations of marriage and sex and contraception have been made by celibate males. It is like non-drivers making all the traffic rules. With all due respect, Bishops don’t have a clue about marriage and sex. I have been married for 54 years , have seven children and can bring more experience to the subject of marriage and conjugal love than the entire episcopacy. The Church’s position on contraception is just wrong. Call me a heretic !!!
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i used to think that until i read Pope Paul VI’s 4 predictions of what would happen if birth control use became widespread. Looke them up they all came true.
 
Bob_Byrnes said:
One always has to realize that the Catholic interpretations of marriage and sex and contraception have been made by celibate males. It is like non-drivers making all the traffic rules. With all due respect, Bishops don’t have a clue about marriage and sex. I have been married for 54 years , have seven children and can bring more experience to the subject of marriage and conjugal love than the entire episcopacy. The Church’s position on contraception is just wrong. Call me a heretic !!!
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Bob, with all due respect, you are so wrong.

You are saying that someone who lives something is a better expert of a condition than the person who studies it? The person who lives it?

So, to know about pedophilia one has to become a pedophile? To understand drug abuse you have to abuse drugs? Of course not.

There is an interlocking theology of the church, physical love, who we are in relation to Christ. Do you have an alternate theology that addresses all that?
 
Bob_Byrnes said:
One always has to realize that the Catholic interpretations of marriage and sex and contraception have been made by celibate males. It is like non-drivers making all the traffic rules. With all due respect, Bishops don’t have a clue about marriage and sex. I have been married for 54 years , have seven children and can bring more experience to the subject of marriage and conjugal love than the entire episcopacy. The Church’s position on contraception is just wrong. Call me a heretic !!!
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I have to agree that you are very wrong on this. Pope John Paul II knew so much about the subject of sex that is simply amazes me. Have you read the Theology of the Body? What about the Good News About Sex and Marraige by Christopher West. Take a look at those before you form your opinion.

But since you seem to think that you know so much more of “marriage and sex and contraception” than those rules “made by celibate males” then do enlighten all of us, please.
 
What if you just don’t LIKE children? And don’t want to have a ton of kids?
 
thomasf said:
What if you just don’t LIKE children? And don’t want to have a ton of kids?
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**Probably best to discern your calling…probably isn’t marriage

But from a personal perspective, I didn’t like children either. But now I have one and I love her to pieces. Still don’t care much for other people’s though;)

malia
**
 
thomasf said:
So if you don’t like children and don’t want a bunch, but love your wife, you’re not supposed to be married?
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If you do not want a lot of kids, I would say that you should still consider the vocation of marriage. There is nothing that states that because you are in a Catholic marriage you can only have “x” number of kids or you must have “x” number of kids. It states that you have to be open to new life. If that new life is only 2 children then that is what you have been open to in your marriage. A lot depends on the marriage. There are several factors that must be considered when having a family.

If you do not want kids at all, well then why do you answer “yes” when the priest asks you in your wedding vows…“will you accept children lovingly from God?” If you do not want children then the answer should be no. Do not lie and say yes just so that you can get married. That would be a false vow.
 
thomasf said:
What if you just don’t LIKE children? And don’t want to have a ton of kids?
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I didn’t like kids before I had them. Now I have four. It seems that most of the children I had been exposed to were ill mannered, loud- just basically rude. Children can and should be taught basic manners and respect. There is nothing so sweet in all the world as a well-mannered child. Nobody wants to be around a rude person be it a child or an adult.
 
Mirror_Mirror said:
If you do not want a lot of kids, I would say that you should still consider the vocation of marriage. There is nothing that states that because you are in a Catholic marriage you can only have “x” number of kids or you must have “x” number of kids. It states that you have to be open to new life. If that new life is only 2 children then that is what you have been open to in your marriage. A lot depends on the marriage. There are several factors that must be considered when having a family.

If you do not want kids at all, well then why do you answer “yes” when the priest asks you in your wedding vows…“will you accept children lovingly from God?” If you do not want children then the answer should be no. Do not lie and say yes just so that you can get married. That would be a false vow.
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Let me preface this by saying I am married, and my wife and I don’t practice bc or even nfp. We just go with it and let things happen where they may. And so far, my wife has been pregnant twice and had 2 miscarriages, and I get the impression we aren’t going to get pregnant any more. At least not before she hits menopause. (She’s 12 years older than me). But if she does, so be it. I do have 2 step daughters that my wife brought into the marriage.

But really my thoughts on this are based on the people I hear on catholic radio who have really large families. I hear these people with 6, 8, 10, 12 kids and think there is no way I would ever want that. I think I’d probably be fine with a few children, but not that many kids. Not that I think that those with large families are bad or anything, if they are up for it then more power to them. But there’s no way I’d be able to handle that kind of a brood, I’d probably go crazy.

So really, if I were a young man considering marriage to a young woman with 20 or so years of fertility ahead of us, I’d be seriously considering the use of nfp once we had already had a few kids. Not because I wanted to spend time or resources on other things, but mostly because I wouldn’t want a huge family. Having my own children would be nice, on a small level. But honestly it’s never been a goal to have a giant family, and mostly I think because I don’t really like kids that much.
 
Let me add, I used to hear that “I didn’t like kids until I had them” argument a lot when I was single. Now that I’ve raised one and a half step kids, it hasn’t changed my mind much. In fact, I’m pretty satisfied now not to have any more kids whereas when I first started dating my wife I wasn’t sure that just raising her kids would be enough for me, I kinda wanted at least one of my own. Now that the youngest step is almost out of the house, I’m very satisfied not having one of my own.

And the oldest is actually getting to the age of getting married herself. My wife is very excited about having a grandchild, and I am not at all. Ugh.
 
mamacita said:
“The greatest gift you can give your child is the gift of a sibling” --JPII (I think I quoted him correctly)
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I’ll second that. Funny how much I thought I hated my younger brother when we were growing up. But now, I love him more than I could ever explain, and I actually feel sad when I tell other people that I only have one brother. It’s funny, as I’ve talked to other people, the older you get, the more you appreciate your siblings, and the more you wish you had more, not fewer.
 
thomasf said:
Let me add, I used to hear that “I didn’t like kids until I had them” argument a lot when I was single. Now that I’ve raised one and a half step kids, it hasn’t changed my mind much. In fact, I’m pretty satisfied now not to have any more kids whereas when I first started dating my wife I wasn’t sure that just raising her kids would be enough for me, I kinda wanted at least one of my own. Now that the youngest step is almost out of the house, I’m very satisfied not having one of my own.

And the oldest is actually getting to the age of getting married herself. My wife is very excited about having a grandchild, and I am not at all. Ugh.
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You’ve probably heard that God does not give you more than you can handle. Perhaps that is the case with you and your wife.

As for grandkids, I’m sure you will change your mind when you hold that new life in your hands. My stepdad (who is 8 years younger than my mom) has been the greatest grandpa. My kids are so lucky to have a young grandpa. In fact, both my sister and I have named a son after him. So, I am hoping you will get over your ughs and enjoy being a grandparent if that day comes.
 
Bob_Byrnes said:
One always has to realize that the Catholic interpretations of marriage and sex and contraception have been made by celibate males. It is like non-drivers making all the traffic rules. With all due respect, Bishops don’t have a clue about marriage and sex. I have been married for 54 years , have seven children and can bring more experience to the subject of marriage and conjugal love than the entire episcopacy. The Church’s position on contraception is just wrong. Call me a heretic !!!
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Are you implying that drug laws should only be made by drug users, since they are the only ones who understand drugs? Or that homicide laws should be made by convicted killers, since they are the only ones who understand murder?
 
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