Catholic2003:
This is the fundamental idea of God’s perfect will (what God really wants to happen) and God’s permissive will (what God will allow to happen because of the free will of His created beings). Thus, it was God’s permissive will that allowed Adam and Eve to sin, not God’s perfect will.
Right. But Adam and Eve’s sin did not require active participation of God. It was their actions, without direct participation of God that resulted in the sin, and God merely allowed it.
Catholic2003:
Because God means what He says. And when He tells us, though the Sixth commandment no less, not to commit adultery, that means that it is God’s perfect will that we not commit adultery. Our God is not a God of tricks, telling people not to commit adultery when what He really wants is for us to commit adultery because that is where He plans for a future saint to be born.
In God’s perfect will, all children would be born into a family with a mother and a father who are married to each other.
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Agreed. What I am saying is that the creation of a soul can only occur with God’s active participation, and it would be wrong to think that God would act in a way contrary to His perfect will. God allows, through free will, the sinful act (as in the unwed couple) but in His perfect will causes good to come of it via His purposeful creation of a soul, and thus the couple may have a child.
In my hypothetical of a saint resulting from that relationship, this would be the result of God making good come from bad. God certainly would not prefer unwed couples have children, but He can create good from that bad situation, and the good that results would be within His divine plan.
Catholic2003:
Is this the same thing as saying that God wants everyone to have as many children as physically possible?
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Absolutely not.
Catholic2003:
This is exactly true. It’s just that I personally don’t reason from this true statement to the conclusion that God supernaturally intervenes in situations where humans have seen fit to cause to the combination of sperm and egg.
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But God must supernaturally intervene, if a life is created. To believe otherwise would be to say we can create life without God’s active participation, which would in turn mean God is not necessarily the creator of life.
Catholic2003:
Sorry, I don’t mean to trap you. I’m just putting forth ideas, and trying to learn from your ideas. I don’t claim to know any of the answers; I’m just contributing my thoughts.
At first, I thought we might be saying the same thing in different ways. After further discussion, I can see that we are in fact saying different things. I don’t know who is right and who is wrong.
Sorry if I misinterpreted your intentions. I am actually enjoying the dialogue.
And I think you and I agree more than we disagree about this topic, but are having a hard time communicating our thoughts in a way each other comprehends.
Peace,
Chris
