NBC'a David Gregory Weapons Violation

[Prodigal_Son1]

Prodigal Son1;10195710:

There’s a huge difference between what can be done with a semi automatic with a 30 round clip, or 100 round drum, and a bolt action, 6 shot, or a shotgun.

Yes, you can give more aimed rounds downrange with an AR than with a bolt action. But that is about it.

Well, get to work and convince the mass shooters they’re choosing the wrong weapon. Too bad we can’t relay how lucky the victims are to the victims though.

You walk into a crowded theater with a 30 round clip, on any semi automatic and you can reap a world of hurt, as proven by James Holmes. Trouble is, how much downrange do you have in a crowded theater?

No ‘idolization’, just the facts.

The ballistic charts for a Remington 12 gauge with the various loads are well known, as is are the 5.56 round and .30-06.

What I am doing is simply stating facts on the weapon styles. I see very little in the way of facts on this from you, why is that?

It’s a bit more than ‘facts’, it’s unreasoned, and changed arguments for guns over public safety. Can’t make registrations stricter, can’t require securing, can’t reduce magazine sizes, can’t have longer wait periods, nothing. Gun rights must be preserved at all costs, and oh well for any victims out there. We live in the land of the free and we have rights, that we need to protect ourselves from the government that gives us those rights.

I agree, and that is the same Guy who guided David’s stones right into Goliath’s noggin.

But according to your logic, he should have used a catapult.

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

So I would like to hear your critique of my assessment.

Do you feel that 6 rounds of 12 gauge Buck would have been insufficient to cause the same casualties in a 1st grade classroom as a 30 round mag of .223

If so, why, was there insufficient muzzle energy in the shot gun, pattern dispersal vs aimed shots? Time to fire (especially when some of the victims were struck 11 times with the .223.

Would there have been anything to stop Lanza from reloading the shotgun while walking between classes?

You are familiar with all these weapons, I would like to hear your technical assessment.

If we are looking to at bans that would directly reduce these type of events, would you not consider it important to look at the potential arms that might be banned, vs the types that might be available?

After all, the bishops called for the use of Reason in enacting the bans, so lets use Reason and logic.

I’m not going to play your game. It’s silly, and lacks any honesty in trying to find a solution, while minimizing the victims of these incidents. Sorry, that’s my honest opinion.

The Bishops called for reason, and never mentioned bans. As I said, your view has been without reason, that I can see.

 

[shipwrkd]

So I would like to hear your critique of my assessment.

Do you feel that 6 rounds of 12 gauge Buck would have been insufficient to cause the same casualties in a 1st grade classroom as a 30 round mag of .223

If so, why, was there insufficient muzzle energy in the shot gun, pattern dispersal vs aimed shots? Time to fire (especially when some of the victims were struck 11 times with the .223.

Would there have been anything to stop Lanza from reloading the shotgun while walking between classes?

You are familiar with all these weapons, I would like to hear your technical assessment.

If we are looking to at bans that would directly reduce these type of events, would you not consider it important to look at the potential arms that might be banned, vs the types that might be available?

After all, the bishops called for the use of Reason in enacting the bans, so lets use Reason and logic.

For jungle warfare most guys I worked with would have given their left…aw, you know, for an 870 but there was only one allocated to our crew. Seems that a school room or theater is about the same range as we were working with.

 

[ChurchSoldier]

Oh, let’s see, surely we can come up with a much worse scenario to hide the effectiveness of the AR15 that was actually used.

Now, let’s go back to the theater where 12 died and over 50 were injured, and they were adults. Take your 30.06 with hollow points and tell me would the outcome been the same.

There’s an huge, and honest difference.

I would like to think if there were 1 citizen who took the opportunity to practice their rights by carrying a handgun maybe 2 would have died; The first one the shooter hit and shortly thereafter the shooter.

From my point of view this thread has run its course and is quickly devolving into a place I’d rather not go so I’ll be checking out. Thanks all for the interesting discussion!

oremus pro invicem

 

[tabycat]

Gun rights advocates are painting the repeated picture that guns are being called to be banned and that’s not the case. It does however give them another opportunity not to address controls that might help in addition to more armed guards, or concealed carry permits.

I think to continue that trend only affirms those seeking a ban over controls.

Gun controls under Obama today, gun banning within the next three or four years, npatrol::knight2:

 

[shipwrkd]

Prodigal son:

We live in the land of the free and we have rights, that we need to protect ourselves from the government that gives us those rights.

I believe our forefathers gave themselves those rights and entrusted the government they created to enforce them.

 

[tabycat]

You mean the Rev. Jim Jones, don’t you?

Just throwing that in for consideration. Your point is good.

Most of Jim Jones’s victoms were NOT shot with a gun and billets, they were poisonsed

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

Gun controls under Obama today, gun banning within the next three or four years, npatrol::knight2:

Purely a politicized statement with no supporting sources. We all know Americans love their gun rights, some more than anything else and above all things. With that knowledge, we also know it’s political death to call for a complete banning of all guns. It’s only speculated to embarrass,. and cast further doubt on, the current administration, and as I said, without basis.

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

I believe our forefathers gave themselves those rights and entrusted the government they created to enforce them.

And guess what? That government is still here and enforcing.

 

[tabycat]

F150, designed to transport, and serve as work truck. AR15 designed to take life.

:banghead: You exoplain to a parent whose child has been killed by a F150 that it was just ‘designed to transport’.

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

Most of Jim Jones’s victoms were NOT shot with a gun and billets, they were poisonsed

Maybe you missed the point of that part of the discussion. Someone spoke to God being taken out of schools and government buildings being a cause of evil, such as the school shootings. David Koresh and Jim Jones were examples of God being used, and abused, to cause evil, and also causing deaths of innocents.

 

[Brendan]

Brendan;10195727:

Well, get to work and convince the mass shooters they’re choosing the wrong weapon. Too bad we can’t relay how lucky the victims are to the victims though.

Actually, it’s the survivors in both cases that were lucky that the shooters choose a firearm that was not the most devastating for their environment.

You walk into a crowded theater with a 30 round clip, on any semi automatic and you can reap a world of hurt, as proven by James Holmes. Trouble is, how much downrange do you have in a crowded theater?

Or, in the case of Cho at Virgina Tech, to walk around with a backback of regular 10 round clips and no one around to stop you.

It really doesn’t matter if your magazine is 30 rounds, 10 or 6 and there is no there is no one around to stop you from reloading.

It’s a bit more than ‘facts’, it’s unreasoned, and changed arguments for guns over public safety. Can’t make registrations stricter, can’t require securing, can’t reduce magazine sizes, can’t have longer wait periods, nothing. Gun rights must be preserved at all costs, and oh well for any victims out there. We live in the land of the free and we have rights, that we need to protect ourselves from the government that gives us those rights.

I’m not going to play your game. It’s silly, and lacks any honesty in trying to find a solution, while minimizing the victims of these incidents. Sorry, that’s my honest opinion.

The Bishops called for reason, and never mentioned bans. As I said, your view has been without reason, that I can see.

But the Bishops are requesting a solution based on Reason, are they not. So that precludes us from departing from the facts and choosing an ineffective, emotional response that really does nothing.

Do you honestly believe an emotional response is what the bishops are asking for, or one based on facts and statistical evidence.

If my view has been lacking Reason, that should be easy to prove, just look at your Aquinas, irrational solutions fall apart when confronted with facts. The Bishop know that, as should you.

So present me with a factual assment as to why the shootings were would be more devastating using as AR vs a Remington 870.

We are all looking for a solution, a solution needs to do, as Aquinas did in the Summa, is to answer all objections. That is the area you are failing in

But according to your logic, he should have used a catapult.

No, as God Himself instructed, a .75 cal projectile was more than sufficient to take down a single target

That is one advantage of the heavier calibres, one shot, one kill.

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

:banghead: You exoplain to a parent whose child has been killed by a F150 that it was just ‘designed to transport’.

It’s easier to say, ‘it was an accident’ than a madman ran through shooting everyone in sight and your child just happened to be one of the unlucky ones.

Are you child by chance? I asked because I’m not sure I’m reading your responses mixed with all the icons correctly.

 

[coachkfan1]

Typical. Law doesn’t apply to us while we are in the process of condescendingly telling the people how wrong they are.

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

That is one advantage of the heavier calibres, one shot, one kill.

I’m done with our discussion. As I said previously, I just don’t see any constructive attempts at a solution, or reasoning.

God Bless

 

[shipwrkd]

And guess what? That government is still here and enforcing.

In spite of all us crazy gun nuts…or maybe because of us

From my point of view this thread has run its course and is quickly devolving into a place I’d rather not go so I’ll be checking out. Thanks all for the interesting discussion!

Think I’ll join ya

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

In spite of all us crazy gun nuts…or maybe because of us

Think I’ll join ya

Because some of us, in spite of others, or so it seems.

 

[Brendan]

For jungle warfare most guys I worked with would have given their left…aw, you know, .

Big toe?

 

[Brendan]

I’m done with our discussion. As I said previously, I just don’t see any constructive attempts at a solution, or reasoning.

God Bless

Read your Summa Theologica. It shows how the Church constructs a logical argument.

Question - Counter- Objection - Answer.

That is what I have been offering to your objections.

Can you not offer reasoned counters to the objections that I offer?

 

[tabycat]

Purely a politicized statement with no supporting sources. We all know Americans love their gun rights, some more than anything else and above all things. With that knowledge, we also know it’s political death to call for a complete banning of all guns. It’s only speculated to embarrass,. and cast further doubt on, the current administration, and as I said, without basis.

Let see now, Obama went to Chicago (were the dems control the machinen) to start his pollical career running for Presadent.Maybe you trust Obama with your rights, I do not. As it been ‘political death’ to ban all guns, as long as there are guns in the world, people will have guns, legally or illegally.
You might ‘know’ that American love their gun rights, but there are alot of Americans that they have gun, or any other, rights.npatrol::yukonjoe: