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AlwaysCurious
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Me tooI can say one thing for sure. Today, I am proud to call myself a North Carolinian, born and bred!
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Catholic_Kenpo
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Definitely. All of my NC friends (outside church) were against it and posting quite hateful things about those that voted for it. I offered Vespers last night and Lauds this morning for them. Then I posted my support for the amendment. Naturally I was immediately attacked. I told them it’s amazing how tolerance seems to end when a Christian actually begins living out their faith. It’s very disheartening to see this type of vitriol from people that I would typically call friend.
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Kathryn_Ann
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bellasbane
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I don’t claim to know what legal precedents have been established in North Carolina regarding the states recognition of heterosexual domestic partnerships and how this new amendment might affect them. The Mother Jones article I linked to says that most people in North Carolina weren’t aware that this amendment could have such far reaching implications. I find that to be quite disturbing.
This is certainly a form of government imposed social engineering. Conservatives claim it will be good for marriage and families in the state. Well that is an empirical question - we don’t need to rely on faith to figure out the answer.
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Kathryn_Ann
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Blessings to you and your wife. 28652.My wife doesn’t get on facebook much, but she got on this morning to check her PMs. She said it was terrible on there with all the hate and name calling. It is so saddening to see this…
I can say one thing for sure. Today, I am proud to call myself a North Carolinian, born and bred!
I’m continuing to post art works of Our Lady with Her Son, and the Holy Family all over my own FB page.
These, appearing so beautifully above and below all the other poster’s hateful name-calling, along with excerpts from the Magisterium about the Sacrament of Marriage, is taking a stand without lowering oneself to the flagrant intolerance of other’s sacred beliefs. So far, no one has attacked me, as I’m not claiming beliefs which I made up on my own, but simply standing on the authority of the One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church. Christ and His Holy Mother stand out among these hateful comments as extending love and compassion, islands amid the desert, laden with wisdom if only one would inquire humbly.
We can love all people, and wish to draw them nearer to Christ and His Holy Church, so I hope I’ll be the kind of person who stands for her beliefs, while extending the hand of God’s love to everyone.
We need not fear political debate. Instead, we remain “In the world but not OF it.” Our Lady, the Blessed Virgin Mary always pointed to Christ. I hope some, if even a few, will see the lovely, classic artworks posted and begin to inquire about “The peace that passeth all understanding.”
Kathryn Ann:heaven:
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Kathryn_Ann
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Yes, AlwaysCurious, It’s quite remarkable to see the intolerance of others on this subject, isn’t it?There’s been plenty of it. Mostly a lot of posts from people saying how ashamed they are to be from NC and others asking (somewhat apocalyptically) if we know what we just did.
Glad we are “in the world but not OF it.” :heaven:
Kathryn Ann
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SamH
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Apparently Mother Jones doesn’t know either but was more than willing to make up a lot of “possibilities” no matter how remote.
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Ridgerunner
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But exactly what “far reaching implications” were they surprised to learn about? Right now, I’m not seeing any adverse implications for heterosexual “living together without marriage” relationships at all. Maybe somebody learned in NC law could tell us.
But in my state, there would be none at all that I can see.
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28562
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Who cares? Shouldn’t be doing that either…
Remember, being gay is not wrong. Acting upon your homosexuality (obviously outside of marriage) is…
Being straight is not wrong. Acting upon your heterosexuality outside of marriage is…
In this regard, there is NO DIFFERENCE between gay couples and straight couples who cohabitate.
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28562
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Yes! One of my favorites scriptures, especially when I am in need of extra strength to deal with our society.
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estesbob
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The precedent is that marriage will remain as a union of one man and one women no social engineering. It is sad that we even have to pass amendments like this.
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fix
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Exactly. It shows how far we have fallen.
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Jerry_Miah
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So you speak for Him? Please tell us exactly what he would say about this. What kind of bigot do you say Jesus would appear to be?
Personally, I somehow can’t imagine Jesus having anything to do with government laws.
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_Abyssinia
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North Carolina Approves Marriage Amendment; Bishop Burbidge and Bishop Jugis Express their Gratitude
In moving forward, I ask that you join me in praying that whatever divisions may have occurred during this referendum process may be healed by the grace of God and a mutual renewed commitment by all people of good will, so that we may together build a society reflective of the unity that is ours as members of God’s family.
Bishop Jugis: I am pleased that the people of North Carolina voted for marriage. The Church consistently teaches that marriage is created by God as the faithful and exclusive union of one man and one woman, open to the gift of children.
In addition to catechesis on marriage throughout the months leading up to the vote, the bishops of North Carolina had asked that a letter supporting the marriage amendment be read at parishes throughout their dioceses last weekend. The letter read in part:
We are FOR the definition of marriage, because we believe it is a vocation in which God calls couples to faithfully and permanently embrace a fruitful union that is open to the gift of children, a gift that comes from the sexual expression between a man and a woman. The children born of this union have the right to the indispensable place of a father and mother in their lives. Children grow, are loved, nurtured and formed by those whose unique vocation is to be a father and a mother to their child.
The full letter can be read here in English and here in Spanish.
marriageuniqueforareason.org/2012/05/09/north-carolina-approves-marriage-amendment-bishop-burbidge-and-bishop-jugis-express-their-gratitude
: I express my sincere gratitude to the people of North Carolina who voted FOR Marriage in the referendum completed today. Passage of the Amendment to the Constitution of our State has now ensured that the definition of marriage, as the faithful and exclusive union of one man and one woman, and one which is open to the gift of children, is in accord with God’s design and in keeping with the very nature of this sacred vocation.
In moving forward, I ask that you join me in praying that whatever divisions may have occurred during this referendum process may be healed by the grace of God and a mutual renewed commitment by all people of good will, so that we may together build a society reflective of the unity that is ours as members of God’s family.
Bishop Jugis: I am pleased that the people of North Carolina voted for marriage. The Church consistently teaches that marriage is created by God as the faithful and exclusive union of one man and one woman, open to the gift of children.
In addition to catechesis on marriage throughout the months leading up to the vote, the bishops of North Carolina had asked that a letter supporting the marriage amendment be read at parishes throughout their dioceses last weekend. The letter read in part:
We are FOR the definition of marriage, because we believe it is a vocation in which God calls couples to faithfully and permanently embrace a fruitful union that is open to the gift of children, a gift that comes from the sexual expression between a man and a woman. The children born of this union have the right to the indispensable place of a father and mother in their lives. Children grow, are loved, nurtured and formed by those whose unique vocation is to be a father and a mother to their child.
The full letter can be read here in English and here in Spanish.
marriageuniqueforareason.org/2012/05/09/north-carolina-approves-marriage-amendment-bishop-burbidge-and-bishop-jugis-express-their-gratitude
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Ridgerunner
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The Mother Jones article cites these adverse implications for unmarried heterosexual couples. I am commenting based on my state’s laws, understanding (but doubting) that in might be different in NC:
■Unmarried parents could no longer have the same child custody and visitation rights as married parents. They don’t now, and never have, but only in a formal sense. There are stronger presumptions when the parents are married to each other, but in court, the outcomes are not greatly different, depending on the facts. But the presumptions only relate to the parents, not the children.
■Private agreements between unmarried couples might not longer have a legal basis. This means, for example, that if a couple who has cohabited and raised children together for years decides to separate, the wealthier partner would not be legally obligated to divide property with his or her partner. A contract is a contract, and where there is no clear contract, a court of equity will sort out the parties’ respective contributions to property acquisition. No change there. **
■The law could interfere with unmarried partners’ end-of-life arrangements, such as wills, trusts, and medical powers of attorney. Again, no change. An unmarried heterosexual partner has no “marital right” to enforce against a will or trust. One might, however, make a claim against an estate or trust based on equitable contribution or “services”. But that has always been true. **
■Employers would no longer have to provide benefits, such as health insurance, to the partners of unmarried employees. They didn’t before, either.
■Unmarried parents could no longer have the same child custody and visitation rights as married parents. They don’t now, and never have, but only in a formal sense. There are stronger presumptions when the parents are married to each other, but in court, the outcomes are not greatly different, depending on the facts. But the presumptions only relate to the parents, not the children.
■Private agreements between unmarried couples might not longer have a legal basis. This means, for example, that if a couple who has cohabited and raised children together for years decides to separate, the wealthier partner would not be legally obligated to divide property with his or her partner. A contract is a contract, and where there is no clear contract, a court of equity will sort out the parties’ respective contributions to property acquisition. No change there. **
■The law could interfere with unmarried partners’ end-of-life arrangements, such as wills, trusts, and medical powers of attorney. Again, no change. An unmarried heterosexual partner has no “marital right” to enforce against a will or trust. One might, however, make a claim against an estate or trust based on equitable contribution or “services”. But that has always been true. **
■Employers would no longer have to provide benefits, such as health insurance, to the partners of unmarried employees. They didn’t before, either.
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Jerry_Miah
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Maybe North Carolina will get even more traditional now. After all, white-black and black-Native American intermarriage was banned by law until 1967, and interpretations of the Bible were used to justify those too.
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fix
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Maybe they will get more post modern and claim three people can “marry” or two brothers or anything else.
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zz912
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It took until page 3. I actually expected this sooner. Playing the race card is the last and weakest attack.
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Jerry_Miah
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We call that the “slippery slope” logical fallacy. This kind of logic was used to keep all sorts of people apart in the past.I’ve not seen anything anywhere that proposes the two scenarios you mention.
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