NCR and Vatican III

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Everyone seems to forget the meaning of the word “Catholic”. it means universal, i.e. the Catholic Church = the Universal Church. That means the world wide Church not the Church of Seattle or any single village, town, city state country or continent come to that.

May I respectfully suggest there are a lot more “Catholics” outside Seattle than are ever likely to fit inside it. As we say in Ireland “All a**e and no trousers”
 
Has anyone here heard about messages from the Virgin Mary that talk about an anti-pope? or how JPII is the last “good” Pope? I have always wondered how that works with Jesus’ assurance that “The gates of Hell will not overcome it”? If the next Pope was to call Vatican III and do the things like NCR wants, what would we “orthodox” Catholics do? ( Sorry if I sound stupid, but I have often wondered this. ) There has been a prediction also of a great schism in the Church. Would we still be good, practicing Catholics if we do not follow a pope who makes radical changes? Would that ever even happen? I have heard reference to some not so savory popes in the past who were pretty scandalous. Did any of them ever try to pass on heresy as infallible doctrine? ( I still have lots of studying to do on Church History. I am still a beginner.) If so, what did the people of those times do?
 
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legeorge:
If the next Pope was to call Vatican III and do the things like NCR wants
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He won’t. As Norwich pointed out, a small number of people from one small city in the U.S. will hardly have any influence on the world-wide church. Sorry, but the U.S. isn’t the center of the universe as far as the Church goes.
Would that ever even happen?
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No. See Matt 16:18
I have heard reference to some not so savory popes in the past who were pretty scandalous. Did any of them ever try to pass on heresy as infallible doctrine?
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Yes, we have had a few really bad popes. Pope Alexander VI is the poster boy for popes who had mistresses and bastards.

And even he did nothing that affected the faith and morals of the Church.

And the faithful? Just carried on, knowing that what goes around comes around.
 
NCR, NCR…at one time, my grandparents used to spread such stuff over their gardens. It doens’t make for good doctrine or discipline, but you can get some great squash and tomatoes out of it.
 
This is depressing. It calls to mind the standing O Joan Chittester got at the National Catholic Education Association a few years ago. She was the keynote speaker and spewed her heresy for quite a while. All the fine Catholic school teachers there gave her a rousing standing O. I was glad to be out of the profession by then.
Married priests? How 'bout a McBrien - Chittester marriage?
That’s even more depressing!
 
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philipmarus:
I was reading Seattle Catholic in which a link directed me to a “list” of Catholics disciplined during Pontificate of Pope John Paul II on the National Catholic Reporter:

(ncronline.org/NCR_Online/archives2/2005a/022505/022505h.php

The list reads like Martyology Report. While there I stumbled upon
NCR Home Page a “Blueprint for Vatican III”. I knew the NCR was Cafeteria Catholicism but I had no idea their dissent was this extreme. I could not believe some of this

Here:

natcath.org/NCR_Online/archives/050302/050302a.htm

Highlights of the NCR’s Blueprint for Vatican III

It means opening all church offices to women. It means shifting the weight of power away from Rome and church pulpits to the people of God. It means getting rid of all parent-child terminology like “Father” (Holy and otherwise), and attendant behaviors.

*The church’s position on contraception is untenable. *

The church does not understand marriage, let alone the complicated cultural, psychological and spiritual conditions that make a marriage no longer viable.
We must search for a coherent and persuasive moral stance on sexual morality: marriage and its support systems, family planning, reconciliation after divorce, homosexual activity, natural law.

Respondents wanted the widest possible participation of all the church in the next council, laity – single and married – and women religious and priests present as a group in proportion to the number of bishops present. A cardinal in a developing country wrote that all religions should be invited “and have the right to vote.”

Well, I bet all this never happens*.* Anyways the last one above (about the Cardinal from Developing world) sounds like something out of the Book of Revalations.
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I wouldn’t line my cat box with the Not Catholic Reporter.
 
Well, Judging by our poll it looks like the Vader’s forces at the NCR are losing.👍
 
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legeorge:
Has anyone here heard about messages from the Virgin Mary that talk about an anti-pope? or how JPII is the last “good” Pope? I have always wondered how that works with Jesus’ assurance that “The gates of Hell will not overcome it”? If the next Pope was to call Vatican III and do the things like NCR wants, what would we “orthodox” Catholics do? ( Sorry if I sound stupid, but I have often wondered this. ) There has been a prediction also of a great schism in the Church. Would we still be good, practicing Catholics if we do not follow a pope who makes radical changes? Would that ever even happen? I have heard reference to some not so savory popes in the past who were pretty scandalous. Did any of them ever try to pass on heresy as infallible doctrine? ( I still have lots of studying to do on Church History. I am still a beginner.) If so, what did the people of those times do?
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I believe that right before they enacted the NCR’s Vatican III, Jesus would descend and prevent the gates of Hell from prevailing. That being said, none of this kooky stuff from the NCR will ever happen, at least not anytime soon. JPII stacked the college of cardinals with conservatives.

You mention a great schism in the Church. I’d argue that we are in the middle of one. There are more so-called Catholics that reject one or more teachings of the Church than ever before. By declaring themselves the judge of what is and what is not good doctrine, they have made themselves their own pope. By claiming that the Church is wrong (say, about contraception), they have rejected her as the true authority appointed by Jesus and guarded by the Holy Spirit. This sounds like a sort of unofficial schism to me.
 
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Strider:
This is depressing. It calls to mind the standing O Joan Chittester got at the National Catholic Education Association a few years ago. She was the keynote speaker and spewed her heresy for quite a while. All the fine Catholic school teachers there gave her a rousing standing O. I was glad to be out of the profession by then.
Married priests? How 'bout a McBrien - Chittester marriage?
That’s even more depressing!
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Actually, I think that might be a good idea; hopefully they would be so gaga that it would take them both out of circulation. And it might even last; they are both so enamoured with the Church created in their own image - and their own image - that they would fit like two peas in a pod.
 
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Almeria:
Every time I read something like this, the more I think that there will be a schism in our lifetime. Especially if the next Pope is similiar, or even harsher, than JPII–and it certainly seems like he’ll be that way. I just don’t see NCR, and the liberals they polled, staying with the one true church.
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JPII, harsh?? I wish!😛

Considering this is coming from Seattle I attribute their kooky ideas to waaaay too much dope :whacky:
 
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Genesis315:
I believe that right before they enacted the NCR’s Vatican III, Jesus would descend and prevent the gates of Hell from prevailing. That being said, none of this kooky stuff from the NCR will ever happen, at least not anytime soon. JPII stacked the college of cardinals with conservatives.

You mention a great schism in the Church. I’d argue that we are in the middle of one. There are more so-called Catholics that reject one or more teachings of the Church than ever before. By declaring themselves the judge of what is and what is not good doctrine, they have made themselves their own pope. By claiming that the Church is wrong (say, about contraception), they have rejected her as the true authority appointed by Jesus and guarded by the Holy Spirit. This sounds like a sort of unofficial schism to me.
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Thanks for answering my questions. I need to stop what-iffing and focus more on my daily walk, don’t you think? It’s just I’ve been hearing so much of this lately. It’s really been on my mind. You bring up an interesting point about a silent schism, though. I never thought of it that way. I always imagined a great official split in the Church like the SSPX only on an international level. Orthodox and heterodox split. Or Cafeteria Catholics vs. Obedient to the Magesterium Catholics. Guess I am a little bit melodramatic. I think that one of the people in my pro-life group who is very into conspiracy theory, etc., is starting to wear off on me. 😉
 
Why don’t these people form their own religion. The Protestants could use another denomination. :rotfl: They can move from “Heretic” to “Schismatic”. Don’t they understand hell will freeze over before this stuff (to put it nicely) ever happens.
 
I returned to the Roman Catholic Church to look for a better way to live, and to have a close walk with God. May the Lord help me embrace the teachings and tradtions of the Catholic Church especially through temptations and difficulties. I vote and pray that none of these lies of the world come to pass.
 
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philipmarus:
Highlights of the NCR’s Blueprint for Vatican III

It means opening all church offices to women. It means shifting the weight of power away from Rome and church pulpits to the people of God. It means getting rid of all parent-child terminology like “Father” (Holy and otherwise), and attendant behaviors.

*The church’s position on contraception is untenable. *

The church does not understand marriage, let alone the complicated cultural, psychological and spiritual conditions that make a marriage no longer viable.
We must search for a coherent and persuasive moral stance on sexual morality: marriage and its support systems, family planning, reconciliation after divorce, homosexual activity, natural law.

Respondents wanted the widest possible participation of all the church in the next council, laity – single and married – and women religious and priests present as a group in proportion to the number of bishops present. A cardinal in a developing country wrote that all religions should be invited “and have the right to vote.”
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This is ridiculous.
 
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