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Memaw
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Jesus would never say that. He founded ONE Church and prayed all would be ONE in faith. Not 50,000. God Bless, Memaw
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Upgrade25
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Protestants would say we are all part of an invisible church.
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humble_catholic
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Ndes don’t prove one religion over another . What they do however is provide complete doing evidence for the soul and afterlife, especially with veridical ndes where the patient floats out of their body and sees objectively verifiable real world events .
It doesn’t however prove one religion over another
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humble_catholic
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Someone better tell ignatius of Antioch that the Eucharist doesn’t mean much cause ignatius was taught that it is the flesh of our lord and savior from his teacher the apostle john
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Bradski
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In which case they would be called ADEs (after death experiences).
When you are dead, you are dead. You don’t have the opportunity to come back and tell anyone about it. By definition. It is final. If you have an NDE then you haven’t died. The clue is in the name.
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sennincatholic
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Well…I have never had a NDE but I have had an OBE(Out of body experience) and I can tell you there are no words to exactly describe what it is but what I was absolutely sure of is that my spirit left my body and was drifting away from my apartment.This stuff is more than some brain dysfunction.Its real!!However,as others have posted earlier,a NDE does not proove a religion is better than the others.
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Della
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Well, they are right and they are wrong.
If a Protestant has had a valid baptism then he is imperfectly joined to Christ’s one, holy, catholic, apostolic faith. In that he is part of the body of Christ but he may not partake of most of the sacraments.If he claims Christ, God will accept even the weakest association with his Church for he never squashes anyone’s faith.
But, if they mean that there is no visible body of Christ in the world, in that they would be wrong. Christ established his Church on Peter and the Apostles. It’s right there in the NT in black and white. Any attempts to deny that is to go against both Scripture and Sacred Tradition, of which the Bible is a part, a large part, not the end-all and be-all of our faith.
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CHRISTINE77
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There’s a fine line between dead and not dead. I think NDE’s are people crossing over temporarily into death, but then coming back to life. You can think whatever you want.
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fisherman_carl
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I am not familiar with this nde. However, to make statement to join whatever church brings you closer to God is true, since our ultimate goal is to be with God. To me this church is the Catholic Church that brings us closer to God. But I don’t know the context of how this was purportedly said. If it was in the context of it doesn’t matter which church you go to then it could not be true. I don’t know anyone who would say it does not matter. Especially Jesus. Also, if it saying truth is not important then I would have to say it wasn’t from Jesus. Since Jesus said anyone on the side of truth listens to him.
Why does Jesus allow divisions in the first place? Why doesn’t he just tell everyone to be Catholic? That is what I sense is behind the question. Ultimately, God has a plan to save everyone, including both Catholics and Protestants. God still has to work with the existing frameworks and divisions we have created in order to do this. There are many Protestants who are taught Catholicism is evil. And they won’t believe in Catholicism even if an angel appeared to them (to preach a different gospel). So people are in different stages of union to the church. And may not be ready to hear that message, even from an nde. We still need to discern and not just blindly believe what someone said happened in their nde. But, there are a lot of non Catholic Christians who do a lot of good for the gospel and help people.
Nonetheless, truth is still the truth. Once we know the truth we can be judged by it if we reject it. If you know for instance the Eucharist is truly the body and blood of Christ and you reject it then it is rejecting Christ himself.
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humble_catholic
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Brad your making the assumption that once your physically dead you ate dead . You should clarify that your making an a priori materialistic assumption . Sorry but I just don’t see much of a difference between a non functional brain and a dead brain which is why what happened in the peer reviewed aware study that much more important .
Conscious awareness for 3 minutes without s functioning brain is evidence against the materialistic brain equals mind assumption which you make .
Doctor parnia is now starting t call them ade’s which is short for actual death experiences.
This points to the direction of the brain being a receiver for the mind .
Sir Roger penrose and Roger hamerofff both are atheists and both believe it in the soul and afterlife and are trying to find a scientific explanation for it which they call the microtubule theory.
Brad you should also look into peak in Darien ndes which are ndes that bring back information of a loved one seen in the afterlife who was thought to be alive but actually died .
Doctor Even Alexander who was an atheist had a classic nde on which he said he went to heaven and communicated with a beautiful spirit guide girl who he never saw before who he later found out was his sister who his real parents had years after they gave him up for adoption .
Professor emeritus at the university of Virginia and head of the division of perceptusl studies there doctor Bruce Greyson has done some great research on peak in Darien ndes .
Greyson is called the father of modern. Nde research .
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Bradski
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What the…? No, I am not making an assumption. I am stating what I thought was the most obvious of facts: that when you are dead, you are dead. You don’t come back. You are gone for good. There is no return.
As Christine says, there is a very fine line between not being dead and being dead. But when you cross that line, it’s like crossing the Styx. Just make sure you have enough for the ferry man. No good tipping him extra because he ain’t bringing you back, Humble. It’s a one way ticket.
Dreams of cute guides who show you Elysian Fields and diamond sparkling waters don’t cut much ice, I’m afraid. Ten a penny.
Maybe you could check out NDEs in Muslim countries and see if they see Jesus. That would be impressive.
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chris62
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Complete garbage.
There are hundreds of documented cases, from doctors, of people coming back from the dead. They are clinicaly dead. But return. Doctors are now obliged to carry out an interview wiith the returned patient after they have been clinically dead. And the reports become official. There is a list of medically unexplained NDES. For example, an American lady, blind from birth, was able to describe in amazing detail the room, staff, pictures on the wall, etc, when she left her body. You can search it.
Perhaps you might want to introduce some facts into your point of view. Instead of merely rambling. Can you? Nope. You never have.
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Bradski
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You seem to have a different definition of ‘dead’ to me, Chris. Yours seems to mean ‘not quite dead yet’ or ‘nearly dead’. What do you call someone when they are not alive anymore?
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Della
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I agree. Dead is dead–to this life, that’s certain. Sometimes a person may appear to be dead but that’s not the same thing as being gone for good from this earthly existence as we have known it. There are some Psalms that claim this quite clearly when they say “The dead do not praise you [God]…” It means that once you are dead your earthly life is over. You can no longer give duty to God or man as you could have when walking amongst those still living their earthly existence.
In my other posts I wrote that NDEs are most probably the mind dealing with passing from life into eternity. If the person doesn’t die, of course whatever he experienced can only be chalked up as his own projections, as in the case of a Muslim who has a NDE. I haven’t heard any of their experiences, so I can’t say what they might “see,” “hear,” “feel,” etc. But I do know that such experiences are not proof of anything. And as evidence they are only anecdotal not substantial.
I never heard of a Catholic bishop urging anyone to take such experiences at face value, nor one having been considered as a supernatural event. They are interesting, in a “tickle the ears” kind of way that we humans love to hear, but otherwise, they are unreliable witnesses to things we cannot know except through what has been revealed to us by God himself. Any he hasn’t provided very much information, except that we are to be like Christ in this life so we can be with Christ in the next.
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CHRISTINE77
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Amen! I don’t know why people are so afraid of this.
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Memaw
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Jesus did tell everyone to be Catholic, Study the Bible about all Jesus said about HIS Church. To Peter, “Upon this Rock, I will build MY Church”. NOT Churches!! And the Gates of Hell will NOT prevail against it, and it hasn’t even tho it has tried constantly for over 2,000 years. HE also promised to be with HIS Church till the End of Time. What more can we ask?? If we sincerely seek the TRUTH, the Holy Spirit will guide us to it. And we won’t need things like NDE’s to convince us there is life after death. God Bless, Memaw
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GEddie
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I think some might be afraid to put faith in it because they don’t want to get their hopes up and then see it disproven, i.e. some scientists may any day come up with a cogent explanation for NDE involving a lack of oxygen to the head; then all the religious apostolates (too many in my mind) who use NDE to “prove” the human afterlife would have a lot of rethinking to do.
I love the accounts of NDE but do not put faith in them per se.
ICXC NIKA
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Della
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Indeed. We have the deposit of the faith preserved by the Church. That’s what we need to put our faith in, not anecdotal “evidence” of the afterlife. I always read such account swith a “grain of salt” because they are purely subjective with no solid evidence. Our OP has put too much importance on them, hence our discussion–proof enough that they are not worth all the hoopla they receive.
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chris62
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It is not **my **definition.
It is the definition made by the medical fraternity.
But you might know better!
But it is the “seeing everything” when she left her body, after being blind from birth, that is the main point. She was blind again when she resumed in her earthly body. Not a dream, but medical facts. One of hundreds.
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Bradski
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Fair enough. I’m not of a mind to batter my head against an NDE brick wall yet again. Been there, done that, got the T shirt. If people want to believe this stuff is true, then nothing I am going to say is likely to change that. Thanks for your (name removed by moderator)ut.
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