NDEs disprove Catholic Church?

[Della]

Fair enough. I’m not of a mind to batter my head against an NDE brick wall yet again. Been there, done that, got the T shirt. If people want to believe this stuff is true, then nothing I am going to say is likely to change that. Thanks for your (name removed by moderator)ut.

For those of us who believe in God, we can see how she may have been granted the ability to see while she lay so close to death. Why we cannot say, if it’s true. A consolation? A hope? An aid to her faith? We cannot say–only she could have an inkling as to the reason. This doesn’t mean we believe that all such stories have to be genuine. No doubt most are merely the brain reacting to dying. But there’s always the possibility that God may use such experiences for their, and perhaps, our betterment. If that’s the case, they do no harm. Still, they are not proofs of anything, really, as I have already written.

 

[adamhovey1988]

I have read about the Near Death Experiences- NDEs - of Alex and Kevin Malarkey; as well as Howard Storm. Does the fact that they are Protestant still disprove the Church?

I don’t think that disproves anything

 

[Memaw]

I don’t think that disproves anything

Nor do I think it proves anything. When anything or anyone tries to disprove the Catholic Church, guess whose wrong!! God Bless, Memaw

 

[ericc]

I have read about the Near Death Experiences- NDEs - of Alex and Kevin Malarkey; as well as Howard Storm. Does the fact that they are Protestant still disprove the Church?

And there are many others from other religions or non-religions that experienced NDEs as well. So if a Catholic were to experience an NDE and he remains a Catholic, does that prove the Church? I don’t think you would accept as a very logical conclusion either.

I fail to see the connection between NDEs disproving the Church or any religion for that matter. It does not follow unless you add other premises. Such as being told what the truth is in an NDE. If they were not told, NDEs by themselves are just personal experiences. Even if they were told but they did not , would not accept what was communicated as truth or reality (perhaps just discarding the experience as “weird”) , again it proves nothing. And as far as NDE is concerned , the divine connection has never been proven. How does one know it is God communicating?It falls in similar category as being communicated with ghosts/ETs and so on.

It would be interesting to see how you jump from one assertion to the other. i.e NDEs, therefore Church disproved?

 

[mikekle]

And there are many others from other religions or non-religions that experienced NDEs as well. So if a Catholic were to experience an NDE and he remains a Catholic, does that prove the Church? I don’t think you would accept as a very logical conclusion either.

I fail to see the connection between NDEs disproving the Church or any religion for that matter. It does not follow unless you add other premises. Such as being told what the truth is in an NDE. If they were not told, NDEs by themselves are just personal experiences. Even if they were told but they did not , would not accept what was communicated as truth or reality (perhaps just discarding the experience as “weird”) , again it proves nothing. And as far as NDE is concerned , the divine connection has never been proven. How does one know it is God communicating?It falls in similar category as being communicated with ghosts/ETs and so on.

It would be interesting to see how you jump from one assertion to the other. i.e NDEs, therefore Church disproved?

I hear what you are saying, but the thing that makes me believe they are indeed from God is, there are always only 2 separate NDEs, they are either a nice and peaceful experience, where the person sees loved ones that have past, communicated with a friendly entity (no matter whether its actually God or not), or the NDE is frightening, scary, the person is told they were tricked in life, now they have to suffer for how they lived, etc etc. fire, smoke, darkness, etc are usually involved, in these NDEs, they are encouraged to change their lives and they are being given a 2nd chance.

My point is, if NDEs were just a mental thing and had nothing to do with God, there should be a wide range of different types of NDEs, as everyone is different, I mean, we would hearing about NDEs involving going to a place with unicorns, fairies, leprechauns, dragons, etc, even alien type NDEs…but we dont hear about these, it seems to be only 2 types, and strangely it tends to match what kind of life the person has lived.

 

[Della]

I hear what you are saying, but the thing that makes me believe they are indeed from God is, there are always only 2 separate NDEs, they are either a nice and peaceful experience, where the person sees loved ones that have past, communicated with a friendly entity (no matter whether its actually God or not), or the NDE is frightening, scary, the person is told they were tricked in life, now they have to suffer for how they lived, etc etc. fire, smoke, darkness, etc are usually involved, in these NDEs, they are encouraged to change their lives and they are being given a 2nd chance.

My point is, if NDEs were just a mental thing and had nothing to do with God, there should be a wide range of different types of NDEs, as everyone is different, I mean, we would hearing about NDEs involving going to a place with unicorns, fairies, leprechauns, dragons, etc, even alien type NDEs…but we dont hear about these, it seems to be only 2 types, and strangely it tends to match what kind of life the person has lived.

NDEs, however, tell us nothing about sound vs. unsound theology. They are anecdotal experiences that neither take away nor add to the deposit of faith. That’s all that matters for our purposes.

 

[cornbread_r2]

I hear what you are saying, but the thing that makes me believe they are indeed from God is, there are always only 2 separate NDEs, they are either a nice and peaceful experience, where the person sees loved ones that have past, communicated with a friendly entity (no matter whether its actually God or not), or the NDE is frightening, scary, the person is told they were tricked in life, now they have to suffer for how they lived, etc etc. fire, smoke, darkness, etc are usually involved, in these NDEs, they are encouraged to change their lives and they are being given a 2nd chance.

My point is, if NDEs were just a mental thing and had nothing to do with God, there should be a wide range of different types of NDEs, as everyone is different, I mean, we would hearing about NDEs involving going to a place with unicorns, fairies, leprechauns, dragons, etc, even alien type NDEs…but we dont hear about these, it seems to be only 2 types, and strangely it tends to match what kind of life the person has lived.

See this essay for the array of experiences reported by those claiming NDEs.

 

[ericc]

I hear what you are saying, but the thing that makes me believe they are indeed from God is, there are always only 2 separate NDEs, they are either a nice and peaceful experience, where the person sees loved ones that have past, communicated with a friendly entity (no matter whether its actually God or not), or the NDE is frightening, scary, the person is told they were tricked in life, now they have to suffer for how they lived, etc etc. fire, smoke, darkness, etc are usually involved, in these NDEs, they are encouraged to change their lives and they are being given a 2nd chance.

My point is, if NDEs were just a mental thing and had nothing to do with God, there should be a wide range of different types of NDEs, as everyone is different, I mean, we would hearing about NDEs involving going to a place with unicorns, fairies, leprechauns, dragons, etc, even alien type NDEs…but we dont hear about these, it seems to be only 2 types, and strangely it tends to match what kind of life the person has lived.

At this point NDEs are just anecdotal experiences. I do not know what they really are. Are they an instance of divine interaction with God? Or are they something else? Perhaps it is a “heads up” leading indicator from God for SOME people, God making use of that opportunity to knock some sense into selected folks. For others it may be just chemicals in the head misfiring and creating all sorts of images when the body sense a near death situation. But neither “proves” anything. All NDEs are not the same with each other. There are some with similarities and there are those that are dissimilar. Concluding “truth” from NDEs are just premature and illogical.

 

[humble_catholic]

At this point NDEs are just anecdotal experiences. I do not know what they really are. Are they an instance of divine interaction with God? Or are they something else? Perhaps it is a “heads up” leading indicator from God for SOME people, God making use of that opportunity to knock some sense into selected folks. For others it may be just chemicals in the head misfiring and creating all sorts of images when the body sense a near death situation. But neither “proves” anything. All NDEs are not the same with each other. There are some with similarities and there are those that are dissimilar. Concluding “truth” from NDEs are just premature and illogical.

It’s definitely not chemicals on the head firing because the aware study showed a 57 year old patient having a veridical nde for 3 minutes without a functional brain . Unfortunately the patient was one of the ones that didn’t have a digital sign posted in his room ,but that will be fixed in the aware part 2 study .

I do t know why my fellow Catholics are getting up in arms over ndes . What they do is give compelling evidence for the soul afterlife and even God but some people from other cultures either could be interpreting them differently or try to reach them n the only way they know him at this moment in their lives ,

But there is simply too much evidence to say they are chemicals misfiring
Misfiring chemicals don’t bring back objectively verifiable info about this realm .

 

[ericc]

It’s definitely not chemicals on the head firing because the aware study showed a 57 year old patient having a veridical nde for 3 minutes without a functional brain . Unfortunately the patient was one of the ones that didn’t have a digital sign posted in his room ,but that will be fixed in the aware part 2 study .

I do t know why my fellow Catholics are getting up in arms over ndes . What they do is give compelling evidence for the soul afterlife and even God but some people from other cultures either could be interpreting them differently or try to reach them n the only way they know him at this moment in their lives ,

But there is simply too much evidence to say they are chemicals misfiring
Misfiring chemicals don’t bring back objectively verifiable info about this realm .

Don’t get me wrong. I am not saying that NDE’s don’t exist. All I am pointing out is that we do not have a valid and credible method of ascertaining the truthfulness of the NDE experience. A person may indeed experience an NDE, it may appear real to that person but how do we ascertain that person’s experience is true in fact? Meaning the encounters and experiences are real. He met God, he met his ancestors, he had a conversation with one of them and so on. That the contents of those conversations/communication are true in FACT?.

The last time I read up on NDE’s, they don’t have a gadget that detects NDEs yet. The medical equipment measure signs of life, not NDEs. NDEs to date is independent of life detecting equipment. So when a body expires, various chemical processing are in effect. Can that be a cause of NDE’s? It is a possibility. It may facilitate the cause of the NDE but not the “contents” of the NDE.

 

[GEddie]

There could very well be life functions going on that cannot be seen by detectors on the head skin. No **discernible **neuro function doesn’t prove there is nothing there.

Death, in any case, is a continuum event, which progresses from loss of breathing to body cold and eyes rolled back. Human beings have been “called back” from all points in the process. The fact that someone isn’t decaying doesn’t mean the soul isn’t packing to leave town, or that God couldn’t show them the travel brochure.

ICXC NIKA

 

[Memaw]

Don’t get me wrong. I am not saying that NDE’s don’t exist. All I am pointing out is that we do not have a valid and credible method of ascertaining the truthfulness of the NDE experience. A person may indeed experience an NDE, it may appear real to that person but how do we ascertain that person’s experience is true in fact? Meaning the encounters and experiences are real. He met God, he met his ancestors, he had a conversation with one of them and so on. That the contents of those conversations/communication are true in FACT?.

The last time I read up on NDE’s, they don’t have a gadget that detects NDEs yet. The medical equipment measure signs of life, not NDEs. NDEs to date is independent of life detecting equipment. So when a body expires, various chemical processing are in effect. Can that be a cause of NDE’s? It is a possibility. It may facilitate the cause of the NDE but not the “contents” of the NDE.

I agree, We were always taught that the Truth never changes and God is TRUTH, HE can’t be one way to you and a different way to me just because we tend to “believe” in him differently. HE is the WAY. I have no idea what the brain goes thru when one is so close to dying and yet doesn’t. But then, NO ONE ELSE does either. Over the years I have had some pretty scary dreams and some pretty nice ones too, and I wasn’t anywhere near dying. Some seemed very real even tho actually unbelievable. I don’t take this stuff to heart. There are sooo many more important things to deal with and pray for especially today. I often wonder why our society is so far from our TRUE God in so many ways and yet we fall all over psychics, ghost stories, NDE’s, Harry Potter stuff, violence, nudity, and all the other garbage TV is pouring into our homes. We need to get back to the real reality of life as Jesus Christ taught us and stop all this. What are we passing onto our children and grandchildren !!! Maybe this Lent we need to take some time to think about it. God Bless, Memaw

 

[Faith1960]

Well…I have never had a NDE but I have had an OBE(Out of body experience) and I can tell you there are no words to exactly describe what it is but what I was absolutely sure of is that my spirit left my body and was drifting away from my apartment.This stuff is more than some brain dysfunction.Its real!!However,as others have posted earlier,a NDE does not proove a religion is better than the others.

We’re you brain dead?