So how exactly do you define ‘good’?If that’s what you think, then that’s fine. My morality has so far served to bring up some very decent human beings, enhance my marriage and family, support numerous others one way and another, and live a life that does minimal harm and maximum good (in so far as I am able) to the people, animals and environment I come in contact with.
Sarah x
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atheistgirl
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It’s hard to give a short reponse to this question, in terms of a definition, but something along the lines of something that promotes doing the least amount of harm to the person, animal or environment while maximizing positive outcomes or opportunities.
Good is subjective. When my children were younger, I did what I know was best for them, for their good, but I know sometimes they sure didn’t see it that way
It would have been for my good to take a particular course of action a few years ago, but it would have meant been away from my family for six months, when the kids were much more needy and dependent, which would not be good for them, so I passed up the opportunity. (I also could not, in all conscience, inflict six months of my husbands dinner son them
).Good is contextual, situational, cultural, subjective and relative. Others may say there are absolutes that are good. I agree for example, this is largely true, in areas such as thou shalt not kill (do murder), steal etc. But even they, while most cultures have these as part of a golden rule, have exceptions that can be relative - stealing food for your children while you are all starving, killing an abusive spouse who is intent on killing you etc. So ‘thou shalt not kill’ is not an absolute moral good.
It’s all relative.
Sarah x
Moral relativism?It’s hard to give a short reponse to this question, in terms of a definition, but something along the lines of something that promotes doing the least amount of harm to the person, animal or environment while maximizing positive outcomes or opportunities. …It’s all relative.
Sarah x
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atheistgirl
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Yes, given I think all morality is in one way or another, relative. Give me an example of what you think is a moral absolute.
The laws of God and his church are absolute.
I can fully understand why you would be subject to moral relativism given the very yardstick of morality is outside of your belief.
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atheistgirl
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Barbkw
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The new 2012 episodes of “I Survived Beyond and Back” are on this weekend.
biography.com/tv/i-survived-beyond-and-back/episodes/12-mesiah-susan
google.com/search?q=i+survived+beyond+and+back&rlz=1I7ADBR_en&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&sourceid=ie7#sclient=psy-ab&hl=en&rlz=1I7ADBR_en&source=hp&q=i+survived+beyond+and+back&pbx=1&oq=i+survived+beyond+and+back&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&gs_sm=s&gs_upl=0l0l0l2484l0l0l0l0l0l0l0l0ll0l0&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.,cf.osb&fp=189cd8576835f64e&biw=800&bih=419
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tonyrey
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We should always, everywhere and in every circumstance do what we are convinced is right.
vatican.va/archive/ENG0015/_INDEX.HTMCan you give me an example of what you mean here?
Sarah x
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atheistgirl
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That’s the entire catechism of the Catholic church
I will be here all day and night reading it
Can you give me an example of what you call a law of God, that is absolute.
Sarah x
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atheistgirl
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Which is entirely relative to the person concerned, the situation, the issue at hand and the circumstances then.
Sarah x
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tonyrey
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You are correct, it is the entire catechism.That’s the entire catechism of the Catholic church
I will be here all day and night reading it
Can you give me an example of what you call a law of God, that is absolute.
Sarah x
Have fun. I know I did.
Truthfully, I consider it the law of God as handed us by God’s church.
It covers everything I have encountered thus far, from the science involved in stem cell research to the everyday white lies. It is all in there.
Are you looking for just a single specific? If so, then how about the absolute evil that is abortion.
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Mystrx
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Murder, Rape, Abject Slavery, Theft, Cannibalism.
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atheistgirl
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Ok that’s a good one.
Catholics and Jews believe in the same God, correct? Yet Catholics in all and every circumstance forbid abortion, even if the life of the mother is in danger, whereas Jews do not.
If I understand correctly, Jews condemn abortion on demand, but where the mothers life is threatened, they say the mother MUST do what is necessary to protect and preserve her own life as the mothers life is more important than the life of the fetus.
So, the same God, but subjective, relative, moral positioning on abortion from two very devout and sincere groups of adherents of the Abrahamic God?
Sarah x
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buffalo
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The Catholic Church possesses “the fullness of truth”.Ok that’s a good one.
Catholics and Jews believe in the same God, correct? Yet Catholics in all and every circumstance forbid abortion, even if the life of the mother is in danger, whereas Jews do not.
If I understand correctly, Jews condemn abortion on demand, but where the mothers life is threatened, they say the mother MUST do what is necessary to protect and preserve her own life as the mothers life is more important than the life of the fetus.
So, the same God, but subjective, relative, moral positioning on abortion from two very devout and sincere groups of adherents of the Abrahamic God?
Sarah x
Worshiping the same God is different from fully understanding and even admitting to Revelation, which both the Jews and Muslims have failed to do. Jesus is key here and His fullfillment of the law.
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atheistgirl
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Cannibalism - There are documented cases of dead children being eaten in the Ukrainian famine. There is a famous case of an Andes crash where the survivors ate those that perished to keep themselves alive awaiting rescue. Did these people breach a moral absolute? Or had they a duty to survive and preserve their own God given life?
Murder - Cases abound where the murderer was let off or received a light sentence due to provocation, circumstances or diminished responsibility. So it seems not all willful acts of taking a life have an absolute prohibition. Then there is self-defence. Is it possible that lives were taken in a so called act of self defence, that needent have been - where the person defending themselves over reacted, but got off on self defence? It seems what is murder can be relative and subjective.
Theft - many have been convicted and sent to the colonies in the old days for no more than stealing a piece of meat to feed their starving family. If my child was starving, really starving, and I took some fruit from a stall to put something in it’s stomach, have I really committed theft in the cold blooded sense, or is there extenuating circumstances that would mitigate against this. In which case, surely that’s subjective and relative again. So again, no absolute.
Abject Slavery - I totally agree. But it seems many churches and faiths didnt in previous eras so again it’s relative in the sense if slavery is an absolute moral wrong, it was in the time of Christ also, and in the 17th 18th and 19th centuries, but churches didnt seem to have a big issue with it. I have read a lot around slavery and definition of slavery and attempts to make out in some circumstances people were not really slaves - but it doesnt seem convincing to me. It seems to be trying to justify something that was once condoned, but actually there is absolutely not justification for what so ever.
Rape - Again, I totally agree. I can not think of any circumstances where it is not an abomination. But in the Bible there is the story of Moses and the Midianite women who were taken against their will. Rape is an absolute moral outrage, but it seems there are examples in the Bible where this was condoned, but would certainly not be condoned today. Again, making it relative, rather than absolute. Because if Moses and his followers believes rape was an absolute moral wrong, defined by God, he could not possibly have ordered his followers to take the virgins of the tribe for themselves against their will.
Sarah x
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atheistgirl
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If something is absolute, from a Divine point of view, shouldn’t that be abundantly clear to all who follow that Divine source?
The fact that different faiths follow the same Divine Source, yet have completely different understanding of that Divine Sources absolute moral dictations, tells me it’s not absolute but relative and subjective, based on the adherents understanding of their Divinity.
Sarah x
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VonDerTann
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Atheistgirl, you asked for an example of a moral absolute.
“The rape of a child” is absolutely morally wrong in 100% of circumstances.
“The rape of a child” is absolutely morally wrong in 100% of circumstances.
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LovePatience
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Wow, you didn’t even bother to examine the evidence before saying you don’t consider it evidence.No, sorry, they’re not. Once again, because something is unexplained, is not evidence of the supernatural. I did look up some of the pictures, and to be honest, these ‘‘people’’ are anything but clear. I think perhaps there’s a little bit of confirmation bias going on.
Anyhow, you see evidence for the supernatural, I dont. You think youve provided some logical arguementation, I dont. You refer to a system of ‘‘belief in atheism’’ I don’t, as my atheism is not in any way an article of faith. You dont understand that, I do… so, on reflection, I think this conversation has reached it’s natural conclusion since nothing new is being added and it is just repetition.
Kind Regards
Sarah x
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