Near Death Experiences

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VonDerTann said:
Atheistgirl, you asked for an example of a moral absolute.

“The rape of a child” is absolutely morally wrong in 100% of circumstances.
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Rape can and does happen within marriage.

Rape includes abuse of authority, coercion, and also includes issues of consent.

Is a 10, 11 or 12 year old girl a child?

Can a 10,11 or 12 year old really give informed consent as to what marriage is and all that it entails?

Yet certain faiths and beliefs allow for a girl as young as this to be married!

One of these faiths worships the same God as Christians do.

Clearly there is some culturally subjective, relative, sexual moral ‘‘absolutism’’ going on there concerning Divine Law and it’s absolute moral codes!

From people of very devout and unquestioned faith in their God.

Sarah x 🙂

*Sorry, but like all good healthy conversations, this is starting to stray way off topic now. I shall butt out now as I’ve said all I wanted to really on the subject of the OP.

Sarah x 🙂
 
atheistgirl said:
If something is absolute, from a Divine point of view, shouldn’t that be abundantly clear to all who follow that Divine source?

The fact that different faiths follow the same Divine Source, yet have completely different understanding of that Divine Sources absolute moral dictations, tells me it’s not absolute but relative and subjective, based on the adherents understanding of their Divinity.

Sarah x 🙂
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Let’s start with the Muslims:

Muslims Worship the One True God -Only Their ‘Receiving Apparatus’ Is Defective
 
Atheistgirl, your response IMHO constitutes grasping at straws.

No one really believes the rape of a child is ever morally justifyable.

No one.
 
VonDerTann said:
Atheistgirl, your response IMHO constitutes grasping at straws.
No one really believes the rape of a child is ever morally justifyable.
No one.
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No One? Really?

I say a 10 year old is a child. I say a 10 year old could not possibly be mature enough to consent to marriage and all that is entailed in maintaining a marriage. Yet some adherents of an Abrahamic faith have no problem with this. Can a 10, 11 or 12 year old consent to sexual intercourse with an adult? I say they can’t, and any such interaction would be rape and pedophilia, but one faith believing in the God of Abraham would disagree with me. If the person can’t consent, they are being raped. And this is sanctioned by the states such as Saudi Arabia and Yemen and the faith leaders of these people. People who believe in the same God as you do, so where is the OBJECTIVE Divine Law?

This poor girl was married and divorced by the age of 10!!!

news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/8429074.stm

Some more horrific stories:

news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/7711554.stm
Married at 12, she describes the moment when her 30-year-old husband insisted on sex. When she resisted, he choked and bit her and dragged her by the hair, overwhelming her with force.
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Reem wants a divorce and then a college education
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She was imprisoned for 11 days in his house and tried to kill herself with a kitchen knife before being rescued by her mother.

Although Yemen has a law stating that 15 is the marriageable age, it is frequently flouted, particularly in poor rural areas where society is run along tribal lines.

Members of Parliament have recently been debating an amendment raising the age limit to 18, but progress has ground to a halt in the face of strong opposition from conservatives.

Sheikh Hamoud Hashim al-Tharihi is general secretary of the increasingly influential Vice and Virtue Committee and a member of the Islah Party. He cites the example of the Prophet Muhammad who married six-year-old Aisha but waited for consummation till she was a little older.

“Because this happened to the Prophet, we cannot tell people that it is prohibited to marry at an early age,” he argues. Moreover, he claims it would harm society by spreading vice.
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Incidently, I also dont think that a 14 year old knows what’s what, yet Canon law allows for a 14 year old girl to be married.

Now, really, this has nothing to do with NDE’s so I’m not commenting further. Perhaps start a new thread if you want to continue the conversation?

Sarah x 🙂
 
atheistgirl said:
No One? Really?

I say a 10 year old is a child. I say a 10 year old could not possibly be mature enough to consent to marriage and all that is entailed in maintaining a marriage. Yet some adherents of an Abrahamic faith have no problem with this. Can a 10, 11 or 12 year old consent to sexual intercourse with an adult? I say they can’t, and any such interaction would be rape and pedophilia, but one faith believing in the God of Abraham would disagree with me. If the person can’t consent, they are being raped. And this is sanctioned by the states such as Saudi Arabia and Yemen and the faith leaders of these people. People who believe in the same God as you do, so where is the OBJECTIVE Divine Law?

This poor girl was married and divorced by the age of 10!!!

news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/8429074.stm

Some more horrific stories:

news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/7711554.stm

Incidently, I also dont think that a 14 year old knows what’s what, yet Canon law allows for a 14 year old girl to be married.

For clarity - I am not trying to be disrespectful to one faith or another, I am simply trying to demonstrate from my view that I cant see where this objective moral law is - it seems more like subjective interpretation of what people think should be a Divine Law. Now, really, this has nothing to do with NDE’s so I’m not commenting further. Perhaps start a new thread if you want to continue the conversation?

Sarah x 🙂
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Sorry I left it too late to edit - see bolded parts.
 
buffalo said:
I submit that girls of the past were more mature at a much earlier age. Today we have delayed adolescence big time.
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I submit anyone adult male having sex with a 10 year old girl is raping them because there is no way biologically, emotionally, or psychologically any 10 year old girl is ready for sex.

BUT, even if that were true, it just demonstrates the fluid, subjective, relative morality of what was claimed to be an absolute moral Divine law by some here.

Anyhow, third time Ive said Im not responding to this any more as it is totally off topic, and three times Ive come back to it. So, I am done now. Let’s try and get this thread back on topic and keep it there.
 
i wonder, do buddhists, hindus also experiance a similar NDE as westerners do?(bright light, voice telling them their not ready etc) I question this because how westerners grow up with christian morals and view of heaven and one God vs a hindu who believes in multiple gods or buddhist who believe in reincarnation.
 
wiggbuggie said:
i wonder, do buddhists, hindus also experiance a similar NDE as westerners do?(bright light, voice telling them their not ready etc) I question this because how westerners grow up with christian morals and view of heaven and one God vs a hindu who believes in multiple gods or buddhist who believe in reincarnation.
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The study mentioned at the beginning of this thread has been debunked by scientific studies. Satan will appear as an angel of life even when you are crossing over. He is a deceiver.

The most notable NDE are where people have been brain dead for quite a while. Howard Storm was a tenured professor and chairman of the Arts Department at Eastern Kentucky. He was an avowed atheists. 100%. Would not allow any Christian topics or discussion in his class. Over in Europe with his students he had an emergency and died. He was going to hell.
youtube.com/watch?v=J_GmifF8Fkc
He has a different take now. Jesus sent Him back . He left his tenured position to become a pastor.

youtube.com/watch?v=QqiqO5BzH74&feature=related
Priest Has Near Death Experience And Almost Goes To Hell

youtube.com/watch?v=w-v1Fppjlvc
Medical Doctor Goes to Hell

youtube.com/watch?v=bcOvWGuQTow
Atheists went to Hell

youtube.com/watch?v=KcJNXbKDZjA&feature=related
Pastor dies in horrific car wreck

youtube.com/watch?v=N4TLZm9nDH4&feature=related
Pastor suffers heart attack

These are some of the testimonies from doctors, atheists, doctors and pastors who experienced clinical death

Blessings
 
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