Near Death Experiences

[SeanF1989]

I have read many accounts of NDEs they all describe bright lights, feelings of comfort and I read one that said “a deep gentle voice told them it wasn’t their time”

Then I read another which described Hell (demons, feeling scared)

What is the Church’s stance on NDEs?

What do you think of NDEs?

 

[atheistgirl]

Dr Chawla, of the George Washington University medical centre in Washington DC, monitored the brain activity of seven terminally-ill people to ensure the painkillers they were being given were working.
In each case, the gradual tailing off of brain activity in the hour or so before death was interrupted by a brief spurt of action, lasting from 30 seconds to three minutes.
Levels were similar to those seen in fully-conscious people - even though blood pressure was so low as to be undetectable - and could generate vivid images and feelings, said the researcher.

Writing in the Journal of Palliative Medicine, he said: 'We speculate that in those patients who are successfully revived, they may recall the images and memories triggered by this cascade.
‘We offer this as a potential explanation for the clarity in which many patients have “out of body” experiences when successfully revived from a near-death event.’
Research released last month put near-death experiences down to high levels of carbon dioxide in the blood altering the chemical balance of the brain and tricking it into ‘seeing’ things.
Read more: dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-1282598/Near-death-experiences-explained-Scientists-believe-gasp-dying-brain.html#ixzz1h5HPUhgv

Whatever the actual reason, it will certainly be anchored in the brain, and will have a perfectly rational, real world, explanation. No supernatural elements required

Sarah x

 

[Langdell]

Whatever the actual reason, it will certainly be anchored in the brain, and will have a perfectly rational, real world, explanation. (Emphasis added.)

On what basis are you certain that this is the case?

 

[atheistgirl]

On what basis are you certain that this is the case?

On the basis that for me, personally, I do not think there is any evidence for the supernatural, afterlifes, or anything like that. Therefor it stands to reason, to me, that this ‘‘experience’’ has a perfectly rational explanation, and will have it’s anchor somewhere in the human brain. And I also think that the researchers will accurately pin it down one day.

Sarah x

 

[exnihilo]

I believe in NDE’s as well as other experiences of non-physical reality.

Whatever the actual reason, it will certainly be anchored in the brain, and will have a perfectly rational, real world, explanation. No supernatural elements required

Dualism would say that our brain is the organ in which thought occurs, but it is not the cause of thought. When we experience thought our brain demonstrates physical activity. But is that activity our experience of thought? The brains ability to manufacture thoughts and images (near death or in dreams) which are not real is an issue that I think is problematic for the materialist. The evidence from this study is not problematic in any way for those who hold to a mind that is apart in some way from the brain.

Those who hold merely to physical reality would need to offer some explanation for why the brain would suddenly create unreal thoughts and images shortly before death. What purpose does this end of life experience serve? I’ve heard people claim it serves to comfort us during death. That may be so. But these same people generally claim evolution is the method by which humans developed. Evolution could have a role in human development prior to reproduction but would have no role in human development just prior to death. So this could in no way be an evolutionary development. So why does this happen? Without any understanding of that there is really no understanding even if we can measure brain waves because no one is surprised that the brain registers activity when thought occurs.

 

[atheistgirl]

Those who hold merely to physical reality would need to offer some explanation for why the brain would suddenly create unreal thoughts and images shortly before death. What purpose does this end of life experience serve?.

I’m not qualified to answer that question, but I do feel certain science will fully explain the mechanism one day.

I do believe the mind dies with the brain. I do believe when we’re dead, that’s it. It doesnt seem incongrous to me that the brain, flooded with electrical activity just before death, or awash with carbon dioxide, would create images that we can and do recognise. It’s been doing it all it’s working life.

I think it’s interesting that although we have absolutely no idea empiracally, what is the other side of life, those who claim to experience it, experience normal everyday things… lights… a human voice… a corridor… a door … whatever… all things the brain knows and understands. Why not something ‘‘other worldly’’???

Anyhow, I don’t deny the experiences of those that have had NDE’s but I do not think or believe there is anything supernatural at the root of it.

Sarah x

 

[ASimon]

A consciousness that’s in some sense aware of its own on-rushing death, might easily manufacture some sort of eternal-life fantasy to create a sense of comfort in its last moments. It seems we’re often telling ourselves things to make us feel better. Even strict rationalists do this - when we realize we have no control over certain events, we’ll imagine a favorable outcome, just because it will make the intervening time more bearable.

 

[You]

I think people have reported them when they died on the operating table under general anesthetic, that is, they were totally unconscious when they died. So they were not getting stressed and looking for favourable outcome fables to comfort themselves. They also report looking down on themselves on the operating table from the ceiling or that sort of height.

 

[ASimon]

I think people have reported them when they died on the operating table under general anesthetic, that is, they were totally unconscious when they died. So they were not getting stressed and looking for favourable outcome fables to comfort themselves. They also report looking down on themselves on the operating table from the ceiling or that sort of height.

You’re only conscious of a tiny fraction of information that your brain is processing at a given moment. Thoughts and feelings come unbidden to us all the time, for reasons we don’t understand. A sudden lack of oxygen to the brain is undoubtedly a stress on brain chemistry (whether it’s consciously realized or not), and it’s no surprise to me that it would lead to interesting visions.

 

[JDaniel]

Whatever the actual reason, it will certainly be anchored in the brain, and will have a perfectly rational, real world, explanation. No supernatural elements required

Yeah, sure, just like “pain” is merely the “firing of certain neurons in the brain.” And, if a neurologist were to tell me that “I could not be sensing any pain, as those neurons just aren’t firing,” what then should I say to him? I got an idea! I’ll just mash down on his toes and tell him the same, stupid thing!

There should be, in my humble opinion, at least one pre-requisite for participation in this forum: participants must think before writing!

God bless,
jd

 

[buffalo]

**This will dispose of atheistgirl’s objections.
**

Life After Death: The Evidence

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/5129VDGLOSL.BO2,204,203,200_PIsitb-sticker-arrow-click,TopRight,35,-76_AA300_SH20_OU01.jpg

 

[atheistgirl]

There should be, in my humble opinion, at least one pre-requisite for participation in this forum: participants must think before writing!

I agree with that. I do hope you take your own adice on board.

Neurologists dont tell people theyre not experiencing pain

In fact, there is plenty of documented, and fascinating, cases of people feeling itching and pain in a limb that no longer exists, due to amputation

Think before you write … excellent advice!

Sarah x

 

[atheistgirl]

This will dispose of atheistgirl’s objections.

Quote: And in his eagerly-anticipated new book, Life After Death: The Evidence, bestselling author Dinesh D’Souza proves that life after death is not only logical—it’s likely

Lol

Hardly disposing of anything is it

Sarah x

 

[buffalo]

Quote: And in his eagerly-anticipated new book, Life After Death: The Evidence, bestselling author Dinesh D’Souza proves that life after death is not only logical—it’s likely

Lol

Hardly disposing of anything is it

Sarah x

Yup - consider it disposed… of course you could buy the book and refute it point by point.

The reason for the “likely” is no one has come back we can interview. The dead have left this domain, hence the title of this thread, NDE.

 

[Partinobodycula]

There should be, in my humble opinion, at least one pre-requisite for participation in this forum: participants must think before writing!

IMHO, this forum would be a very quiet place.

 

[atheistgirl]

Yup - consider it disposed… of course you could buy the book and refute it point by point.

The reason for the “likely” is no one has come back we can interview. The dead have left this domain, hence the title of this thread, NDE.

Exactly. Nothing disposed of or proven what so ever. Just belief and taking a partiular view. Some chose to believe in a life after death, and near death experiences, because of their religious beliefs or because they derive some comfort from this, others, like me, are perfectly happy knowing death is final, and don’t.

And I wont until someone I know and trust comes back and confirms it’s existence

Sarah x

 

[Julia_Mae]

What is the Church’s stance on NDEs?

What do you think of NDEs?

I don’t imagine the Church has an official stand on NDEs. I also believe they are exactly what the people who have them say they are. I also think that they are suited, by God’s intent, for the individual, and that the experience is created for them for a purpose. So, what is experienced varies by individual and culture, although the basic elements of the NDE tend to be the same cross-culturally. I also find all so-called “medical” explanations nonsensical. You might find this site interesting. iands.org/index.php

 

[atheistgirl]

You might find this site interesting. iands.org/index.php

Quoted from the link you gave:

Later in life, while hiking on a mountain he has a UFO encounter and meets extraterrestrial biological life forms (ETs). He then enters a state of cosmic consciousness similar to that of his NDE and goes on to teach the ETs what it’s like to enter this state of consciousness from a human perspective.

Oh boy

Sarah x

 

[buffalo]

Exactly. Nothing disposed of or proven what so ever. Just belief and taking a partiular view. Some chose to believe in a life after death, and near death experiences, because of their religious beliefs or because they derive some comfort from this, others, like me, are perfectly happy knowing death is final, and don’t.

And I wont until someone I know and trust comes back and confirms it’s existence

Sarah x

The book I referenced does not use a religious argument.

 

[dandingo]

This will dispose of atheistgirl’s objections.

Life After Death: The Evidence

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/5129VDGLOSL.BO2,204,203,200_PIsitb-sticker-arrow-click,TopRight,35,-76_AA300_SH20_OU01.jpg

I was actually planning on posting that book. I’ve read most of it but haven’t quite gotten to the end. What I found extremely interesting is that the books speaks of a doctor who has studied near death experiences in extreme depth. In thousands of cases, the majority were very similar in what they experienced. Not only that, but the near death experiences ranged from being clinically dead for anywhere from a few minutes to well over an hour or two. I can see being somewhat skeptical with regards to the ones who died for a few minutes but the ones that were clinically dead for near or even over an hour is strong evidence for the afterlife.

And I am just at a loss for words that atheists love to use the “well, even if we don’t know it now, we will one day” answer for everything that is unexplained. I have read and watched multiple accounts of people literally dying and coming back to life and you can discern, from their writings and explanations, that what they experienced was not their ‘brain firing’ or ‘memories’ or anything like that. They genuinely believe that they experienced the afterlife.

In fact, there are multiple accounts of devout atheists going to hell and returning. You can see, in their face, that what they experienced was real. And these are people that aren’t selling books or DVDs. They’re simply warning that hell is a real place. Given, I don’t know for a fact that these are true but from the research I have done I have absolutely no reason to believe that it isn’t. Just because you haven’t experienced it does not mean that it isn’t true and real.