Need advice: non-clerical celibacy

  • Thread starter Thread starter Klemens_Hadwig
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
K

Klemens_Hadwig

Guest
(I could not decide whether this thread should be under ‘Vocations’ or ‘Family Life’. I apologise to the moderators if I have made some mistake.)

Those who have seen my previous ‘family life’ posts know that I was interested in eventually finding a wife. (Those who have seen my ‘political’ posts know that I have some rather unpopular political leanings 🤷). Since I have not posted in several months, this thread could considered be a follow-up with regard to my so-called ‘relationship status’. (I want to thank, once again, the posters who commented on my last thread).

Many things have changed in the world and in my own life since February-March 2015. I do not intend to the discuss the changes in the world. That can be discussed on another thread.
However, one thing has changed in my life; I have become disgusted by the prospects of marriage.

This change of attitude comes from neither a lack of attraction to the opposite sex, nor an ostensible change in vocation (I do not feel called to priestly and monastic life). I have simply come to accept that I should not be looking for a wife because the present-day world is inherently unfavourable for the pursuit of a faithful marriage. Marriage would only jeopardise my ability to live productively and righteously whilst bringing numerous unnecessary stresses and spiritual harm.

Here is my question,

How does one quell the desire for spousal intimacy? It is understood that one is to live chastely before marriage. This is something that I have striven to accomplish, despite many shortfalls. But, often this type of chastity awaits, to some degree, the literal ‘consummation’ of marriage. How does one live celibately without consecration to our Lord (priestly and monastic life)? What is the best way to avoid the siren call of present-day marriage and relationships, while living a normal, lay existence?

This forum has been very patient with fools like me and I hope that this thread does not provoke needless irritation.
 
I shouldn’t worry too much…the right girl will come along and you’ll suddenly discern a vocation to marriage…
 
Klemens_Hadwig said:
(I could not decide whether this thread should be under ‘Vocations’ or ‘Family Life’. I apologise to the moderators if I have made some mistake.)

Those who have seen my previous ‘family life’ posts know that I was interested in eventually finding a wife. (Those who have seen my ‘political’ posts know that I have some rather unpopular political leanings 🤷). Since I have not posted in several months, this thread could considered be a follow-up with regard to my so-called ‘relationship status’. (I want to thank, once again, the posters who commented on my last thread).

Many things have changed in the world and in my own life since February-March 2015. I do not intend to the discuss the changes in the world. That can be discussed on another thread.
However, one thing has changed in my life; I have become disgusted by the prospects of marriage.

This change of attitude comes from neither a lack of attraction to the opposite sex, nor an ostensible change in vocation (I do not feel called to priestly and monastic life). I have simply come to accept that I should not be looking for a wife because the present-day world is inherently unfavourable for the pursuit of a faithful marriage. Marriage would only jeopardise my ability to live productively and righteously whilst bringing numerous unnecessary stresses and spiritual harm.

Here is my question,

How does one quell the desire for spousal intimacy? It is understood that one is to live chastely before marriage. This is something that I have striven to accomplish, despite many shortfalls. But, often this type of chastity awaits, to some degree, the literal ‘consummation’ of marriage. How does one live celibately without consecration to our Lord (priestly and monastic life)? What is the best way to avoid the siren call of present-day marriage and relationships, while living a normal, lay existence?

This forum has been very patient with fools like me and I hope that this thread does not provoke needless irritation.
Click to expand...
The right girl may come along; the right girl may NEVER come along. So, how do you remain chaste and a part of the laity? By frequent reception of the Holy Eucharist, which helps you greatly to conform your life to the life of Christ, who remained unmarried and chaste his entire life.

I realize that marriage is a sacrament, but both Christ and St. Paul held the unmarried state to be a higher calling.

Frequent reception of the Holy Eucharist will not only help you to conform your life to the life of Christ, it will cause you to be ever so much more contrite if you do happen to fall into sin, and most of us fall into sin now and then.

Good luck and God bless.
 
Gilly_flower said:
I shouldn’t worry too much…the right girl will come along and you’ll suddenly discern a vocation to marriage…
Click to expand...
Or, maybe not. In which case he’s just going to have to deal with lifelong celibacy and accept aging alone. Those aren’t easy things, but unfortunately, there’s really no way to get rid of those feelings. Many people even find that they intensify throughout the years.
 
If you really are called to the life of a celibate lay person, first pray, be silent, and listen for God’s direction. Sexual intimacy is a gift from God, but so is celibacy, and we have to understand both in their proper context.

It is important to realize that the suppression of sexual desires will not work. When people get in the habit of thinking sex is bad, bad, BAD, they push down and try to avoid all desires, but they are unavoidable, so they wind up exploding in unholy actions.

Rather, recognize when you are facing disordered thoughts or desires, thank God for his gift of human beauty, but also pray that he will untwist your twisted desires. Learn to see people with the love of God. Try to see their insides, not their outsides.
 
I’ll just encourage you not to write off marriage all together just yet. That marriage is taking a beating in the secular culture means we need more examples of faithful marriages, not less.

That said, to live chastely as a single person requires grace which comes through prayer and the sacraments. I wouldn’t view it so much as “quelling” those natural impulses as I would view it as redirecting them.
 
I have felt the calling, too, and thought about becoming a nun. To be a nun is essentially the life of a female monk, to be a bride of Christ and life a life of simplicity, obedience and celibacy.

But yet, I have this inherent maternal instinct and although I have had failed relationships, I am meant for the married and family life. This is something I have come to terms with.

It seems you are discerning, this is good. But I must point out that yes, the world is flawed but if you desire a family and a wife, then that is an option. As a family you control what your kids are exposed to, what school they can go to (homeschooling) and there’s Christian universities they could attend. Just something to consider.

If I ever become blessed with a family, I love Montessori schools.

Continue to discern, if you feel the Lord’s calling to serve then choose, but be sure. You can still serve God as a married person.

With my prayers
GreyWings
 
You are still quite young. When I was in my early 20’s, I had no desire for marriage. That changed as I got older. I met my husband at age 29 and married at age 30. You are still doing a lot of maturing, and your desires may change in a few years. Just keep discerning and keep your options open.

Dealing with sexual desire as a chaste single? In my experience, the difficultly ebbed and flowed. Sometimes it was hard. Sometimes, not so much. I kept busy and didn’t have time to dwell on the fact that I wasn’t “getting anything”. Also, chastity doesn’t go away when one is married.
 
I’m in the same boat as you, for the same reasons, except that I’ve made peace with it. To quote St. Thérèse of Lisieux:

"O happy failure, from how many evils have you saved me! I am most thankful to Our Lord that He let me find only bitterness in earthly friendships. With a heart like mine, I should have been taken captive and had my wings clipped, and how then should I have been able to ‘fly and be at rest?’ [Cf. Psalm 54 [55]:7]

“How can a heart given up to human affections be closely united to God? It seems to me that it is impossible. I have seen so many souls, allured by this false light, fly right into it like poor moths, and burn their wings, and then return, wounded, to Our Lord, the Divine fire, which burns and does not consume [cf. Exodus 3:2].”

I have that same experience, because I have that same kind of heart. I spent many years trying to find friends and failing, both before and after conversion. But once I started accepting that it’s just not God’s will, things fell into place.
 
Joe_5859 said:
I wouldn’t view it so much as “quelling” those natural impulses as I would view it as redirecting them.
Click to expand...
Yes! 👍

Find a way to live for others. Get involved in your parish - especially ministries that serve those most in need of our help.

All people need intimacy. The mistake in our secular culture is assuming that “intimacy” always means sex. I think, really, what it means is that we connect to others on a level where we recognize that they are people just as we are. That can be an easy thing to say, but not an easy thing to live.

That said, yes, absolutely, it’s a sacrifice to not engage in the physical aspect of intimacy. That is something we are biologically wired for. But these feelings can be offered up as small mortifications just like you might do for other inconveniences or small pains in your life.
 
Thank you for the responses.

I feel that I should elaborate for the sake of clarity.

It is not the desire for (spousal) intimacy that I struggle with. Rather, it is the desire for marriage itself.

I want to marry and I especially hope to start a family. However, I know that cannot possibly happen. Infidelity, divorce, separation and the ‘transfer’ of children is socially accepted and promoted, while enjoying full legal protection. I do not fear commitment itself, but I do fear the fact that my commitment will not be reciprocated. Simply put, I find it difficult to trust in such a hostile environment

And why should my case be any different from the numerous unfortunate souls who have experienced this? As are most men, I am not ‘irresistible’. And I try not to delude myself into thinking that ‘the right woman will come along’. At this point, I see little would motivate a woman to stay with me. Even if a woman is interested, there is no guarantee that she will stay with me.

With this in mind, you can see why I want to end my desire for marriage.

I know and somewhat accept that I am to live as a celibate. But how does one stop desiring marriage?
 
I agree with the poster above me. Intimacy does not always means sexual intimacy. My dearest friend, for years, was a Catholic priest, who died at a youngish age from cancer. We did not have sex, of course, but over the years, we built an intimacy that surpassed any intimacy my married friends know with their husbands (if what they tell me is true). I knew his heart, his unspoken (to others) fears, his anxieties, his deepest regrets, his hopes, his joys, etc. I would not trade that relationship for any marriage any day. And there with us in our relationship of love was Christ. It was just the best relationship possible.
 
Klemens_Hadwig said:
Thank you for the responses.

I feel that I should elaborate for the sake of clarity.

It is not the desire for (spousal) intimacy that I struggle with. Rather, it is the desire for marriage itself.

I want to marry and I especially hope to start a family. However, I know that cannot possibly happen. Infidelity, divorce, separation and the ‘transfer’ of children is socially accepted and promoted, while enjoying full legal protection. I do not fear commitment itself, but I do fear the fact that my commitment will not be reciprocated. Simply put, I find it difficult to trust in such a hostile environment

And why should my case be any different from the numerous unfortunate souls who have experienced this? As are most men, I am not ‘irresistible’. And I try not to delude myself into thinking that ‘the right woman will come along’. At this point, I see little would motivate a woman to stay with me. Even if a woman is interested, there is no guarantee that she will stay with me.

With this in mind, you can see why I want to end my desire for marriage.

I know and somewhat accept that I am to live as a celibate. But how does one stop desiring marriage?
Click to expand...
I’m not sure what you’re looking for here. Marriage is a risk and a sacrifice. Eschewing marriage is also a risk and a sacrifice (sacrificing a family and the risk of facing all of life’s hardships alone). That’s just a fact of life and there really is no way around it. You will be sacrificing something either way, and you will feel it. You’re talking to a group of largely happily married people, so it’s clear what we chose to do with our desire for a spouse and kids.

As of February, you were only 21, so you can’t be more than 22 now. Don’t worry too much about marriage vs being alone right now, because you still have a ton of growing and changing to do anyway.

That is my benefit of the doubt answer. My more cynical response after seeing your elaboration is that you want to drum up a bunch of controversy over why you hate modern marriage and/or women and have people try to talk you into it anyway. If that’s the case, my advice is that you aren’t fit for marriage anyway so good riddance. We get too many of those threads around here.
 
Klemens_Hadwig said:
Thank you for the responses.

I feel that I should elaborate for the sake of clarity.

It is not the desire for (spousal) intimacy that I struggle with. Rather, it is the desire for marriage itself.

I want to marry and I especially hope to start a family. However, I know that cannot possibly happen. Infidelity, divorce, separation and the ‘transfer’ of children is socially accepted and promoted, while enjoying full legal protection. I do not fear commitment itself, but I do fear the fact that my commitment will not be reciprocated. Simply put, I find it difficult to trust in such a hostile environment

And why should my case be any different from the numerous unfortunate souls who have experienced this? As are most men, I am not ‘irresistible’. And I try not to delude myself into thinking that ‘the right woman will come along’. At this point, I see little would motivate a woman to stay with me. Even if a woman is interested, there is no guarantee that she will stay with me.

With this in mind, you can see why I want to end my desire for marriage.

I know and somewhat accept that I am to live as a celibate. But how does one stop desiring marriage?
Click to expand...
First, what BEL said.

Second, my comments still apply. The active desire for marriage ebbs and flows. When I got to my mid-20’s, I had an underlying desire for marriage, I didn’t actively feel it or pine for it all the time. There were long periods of time where I didn’t worry about it so much. There were other times where it was very difficult and I cried a lot. Also, during that time, I had periods where I was extremely frustrated with men and didn’t want to have anything to do with them. It was a function of immaturity and frustration with the lack of dating and no prospects for marriage.

I get that you have fears concerning getting married in this day and age. What about her? Women have those fears too. Infidelity, abuse, abandonment. Women and their children have long been abandoned by husbands who wanted someone younger. A beloved husband could die and leave his wife and children in poverty. Marriage is a risky undertaking and involves a lot of sacrifice. Always has been, always will be.
 
BlueEyedLady said:
That is my benefit of the doubt answer. My more cynical response after seeing your elaboration is that you want to drum up a bunch of controversy over why you hate modern marriage and/or women and have people try to talk you into it anyway. If that’s the case, my advice is that you aren’t fit for marriage anyway so good riddance. We get too many of those threads around here.
Click to expand...
First, I like your ‘cynicism’ (or realism as I call it ;)). Although it may seem that I am attempting to bait others convince me about the ‘goodness’ of marriage, my sincere goal is to live celibately. However, the desire for marriage keeps returning. I have only asked for assistance regarding the suppression of this desire. I have not asked whether I should desire marriage, etc. If I had done the latter, you would be absolutely correct.

I simply wanted my intention to be clear.
Now, I am set in my ways and I simply want to know how to go about such a life.

How does one deal with a still lingering desire to marry, even though has chosen another path? It is as if the heart :mad: keeps sabotaging the plans of my mind and will.

I have always admired the idea of the lay man who is immersed in his work and in the matters of the world, but refuses to permit the caprices of the heart into his life.
 
I think very few 21-22 year olds know for sure that they are called to celibacy for the rest of their life. So yes, I think it is possible that you may be called to celibacy for the rest of your life. Even assuming that your feeling about being called to this are correct, I don’t think your thoughts about suppressing your desire for marriage are quite right. Even when one knows one is called to another state of life, desiring the other state of life isn’t necessarily bad. It seems, though, based on something you wrote in your OP:
I have simply come to accept that I should not be looking for a wife because the present-day world is inherently unfavourable for the pursuit of a faithful marriage. Marriage would only jeopardise my ability to live productively and righteously whilst bringing numerous unnecessary stresses and spiritual harm.
Click to expand...
that you only don’t want to get married because it would be dangerous/taking a risk, not because you feel you are called to celibacy. This is further demonstrated in your second post, when you wrote
I want to marry and I especially hope to start a family. However, I know that cannot possibly happen. Infidelity, divorce, separation and the ‘transfer’ of children is socially accepted and promoted, while enjoying full legal protection. I do not fear commitment itself, but I do fear the fact that my commitment will not be reciprocated. Simply put, I find it difficult to trust in such a hostile environment…(snip)…At this point, I see little would motivate a woman to stay with me. Even if a woman is interested, there is no guarantee that she will stay with me.
Click to expand...
So, it looks like you need to reconcile within yourself your fears about marriage and its risks, before you can really discern whether or not you are called to it. It might be that you are not called to marriage, but it can’t be because you are afraid of it - it will be because God has other plans for you to aid in the salvation of souls.
 
Klemens_Hadwig said:
First, I like your ‘cynicism’ (or realism as I call it ;)). Although it may seem that I am attempting to bait others convince me about the ‘goodness’ of marriage, my sincere goal is to live celibately. However, the desire for marriage keeps returning. I have only asked for assistance regarding the suppression of this desire. I have not asked whether I should desire marriage, etc. If I had done the latter, you would be absolutely correct.

I simply wanted my intention to be clear.
Now, I am set in my ways and I simply want to know how to go about such a life.

How does one deal with a still lingering desire to marry, even though has chosen another path? It is as if the heart :mad: keeps sabotaging the plans of my mind and will.

I have always admired the idea of the lay man who is immersed in his work and in the matters of the world, but refuses to permit the caprices of the heart into his life.
Click to expand...
Perhaps you are called to marriage, but don’t want to accept it because of the risks?

I’d consult a good priest and/or spiritual director so you can work on discernment.

Not quite the same, but when I was around your age I know I felt like I was “supposed to” have a job and work and put off family, even though I was pretty sure I was called to be married. Circumstances and surprises basically put me in the position of being a stay-at-home mom, which I thought I would never, ever want. Surprisingly, I fell in love with it, even though my mind had told me for years that I shouldn’t and I had prepared for the opposite.

The fact that your heart keeps tugging you in a different direction than the one you plan MAY be an indication that what you think you should be seeking and what God’s plan is for you are different things. But consult someone who’s experienced with discernment. 👍
 
Klemens_Hadwig said:
However, I know that cannot possibly happen. Infidelity, divorce, separation and the ‘transfer’ of children is socially accepted and promoted, while enjoying full legal protection. I do not fear commitment itself, but I do fear the fact that my commitment will not be reciprocated.
Click to expand...
Someone told me: “You’re praying for someone special, and that someone is out there, praying for you, too.”

Food for thought.

I have been through a failed relationship and had my heart ripped out, and yet love is to be found again. You want what God wants for you, and only God knows your fate. But, my advice is to open your heart. Don’t be afraid. Pray to God that if you’re meant for the married life, to bless you with a wife.

Seriously, take my word for it: there are many women out there who wants a Catholic marriage and a family raised in the Church with all of its virtues, myself included! We’re out there.
 
Klemens_Hadwig said:
Now, I am set in my ways and I simply want to know how to go about such a life.

How does one deal with a still lingering desire to marry, even though has chosen another path? It is as if the heart :mad: keeps sabotaging the plans of my mind and will…
Click to expand...
Dear friend,
You are much too young, at 21-22, to be set in your ways. You have a lot of growing and changing to do yet.
Maybe God has chosen another path for you. You won’t know for some time. Try to keep an open mind, try to follow the will of God, and let him worry about your future.You know what they say, if you want to make God laugh, tell him your plans.

.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top