Need advice: non-clerical celibacy

[Lily_Bernans]

First, I like your ‘cynicism’ (or realism as I call it ). Although it may seem that I am attempting to bait others convince me about the ‘goodness’ of marriage, my sincere goal is to live celibately. However, the desire for marriage keeps returning. I have only asked for assistance regarding the suppression of this desire. I have not asked whether I should desire marriage, etc. If I had done the latter, you would be absolutely correct.

I simply wanted my intention to be clear.
Now, I am set in my ways and I simply want to know how to go about such a life.

How does one deal with a still lingering desire to marry, even though has chosen another path? It is as if the heart keeps sabotaging the plans of my mind and will.

I have always admired the idea of the lay man who is immersed in his work and in the matters of the world, but refuses to permit the caprices of the heart into his life.

Once again, frequent reception of the Holy Eucharist is the best way to conform your life to Christ (and he never married, of course). You should receive Holy Communion daily, if possible, so long as you are in a state of grace. If you are at all contemplative, one hour a day spent in contemplation helps. You finally reach a point in life where only Christ will do.

Marriage is sacrifice and it is risk. You could be married for years, only to have a wife leave and take your money and your children with her, and the law will be on her side, not yours. I’m not saying it would end that way, and I know marriages that do not. However, it is always a risk when dealing with fallible human beings.

 

[Lily_Bernans]

Dear friend,
You are much too young, at 21-22, to be set in your ways. You have a lot of growing and changing to do yet.
Maybe God has chosen another path for you. You won’t know for some time. Try to keep an open mind, try to follow the will of God, and let him worry about your future.You know what they say, if you want to make God laugh, tell him your plans.

.

I knew at fifteen, and have not changed my mind yet. Some people know their calling early, others need more time. St. Therese died at twenty-four or twenty-five, I think. She knew her calling at a young age.

 

[Sarcelle]

Ever heard of the saying, Man makes plans and God laughs?

One thing I have learned is to take it one day at a time. Focus on doing God’s will at this moment. We are not guaranteed tomorrow, so while it is okay to occasionally think of a life vocation, I advise you not to overthink it. Take it one day at a time. Do not yield to fear, since that is the enemy of faith.

 

[BlueEyedLady]

I knew at fifteen, and have not changed my mind yet. Some people know their calling early, others need more time. St. Therese died at twenty-four or twenty-five, I think. She knew her calling at a young age.

But the OP hasn’t described this as a calling. Quite the opposite, he feels as though he has a vocation to marriage that he is actively rejecting because of the state of secular society (which IMO isn’t that bad when you look around the world). So he’s staging a one man protest against what he thinks god is calling him to do. Frankly, shunning a divine calling because of the risk of earthly divorce seems insane to me. But what do I know?

So there are really 3 choices:

1. He outgrows this rebellion and lives out the vocation he feels called to.
2. He lives his life actively rejecting god’s calling in protest. In which case, he can’t really call himself a devout Catholic, and that attitude doesn’t really bode well for marriage anyway.
3. He ends up like the last guy who told god no and spends a few days living off sushi in the belly of a fish until he’s had enough time to think about what he’s done and go another way.

Given his age, I’m going to bet on door #1.

 

[EasterJoy]

Get a spiritual director.

 

[Klemens_Hadwig]

But the OP hasn’t described this as a calling. Quite the opposite, he feels as though he has a vocation to marriage that he is actively rejecting because of the state of secular society (which IMO isn’t that bad when you look around the world). So he’s staging a one man protest against what he thinks god is calling him to do. Frankly, shunning a divine calling because of the risk of earthly divorce seems insane to me. But what do I know?

So there are really 3 choices:

1. He outgrows this rebellion and lives out the vocation he feels called to.
2. He lives his life actively rejecting god’s calling in protest. In which case, he can’t really call himself a devout Catholic, and that attitude doesn’t really bode well for marriage anyway.
3. He ends up like the last guy who told god no and spends a few days living off sushi in the belly of a fish until he’s had enough time to think about what he’s done and go another way.

Given his age, I’m going to bet on door #1.

If people are placing bets, can I have some of the money?

My action is neither a rebellion against the world nor against the will of our Lord. The path I have chosen was simply determined by my assessment of risks versus benefits (earthly and spiritual). As I see it, the risks disproportionately outweigh the benefits. Those can be the signs of a vocation. Other persons may arrive at different conclusions. What works for me will frequently not work for others and vice-versa.
In short, I am not fighting the ways of the world, I have merely adapted to my environment. Why would I even think of a ‘rebellion/protest’? My actions have little to no effect in the larger world, particularly since I have no significant public presence.
Remember, before you can save others, you must be strong spiritually. I am simply avoiding what I consider to be a dangerous spiritual pitfall and a detriment to my well-being.

I did not start this thread to discuss my choice of vocation. My decision is not in the question (that is a matter for my spiritual director).
I simply wanted advice regarding the pursuit the road of celibacy. But unfortunately, my mouth happened to have loose hinges and I gave too much information.

 

[BlueEyedLady]

I did not start this thread to discuss my choice of vocation. My decision is not in the question (that is a matter for my spiritual director).

Your vocation is not a choice, and its not something to decide. In Catholic theology, your vocation is God’s calling to you. To put the make a decision on a cost benefit analysis rather than his will is a pretty serious act of rebellion. And who are you to say you know better than he does?

The best you can do is pray that marriage is not your vocation.

 

[Lily_Bernans]

I agree that God’s purpose for his life is God’s choice, not his, but whether or not he chooses to follow that purpose is his decision. God will not rob him of his free will.

He doesn’t seem to have a closed mind to God’s plan, and just because he feels a desire for marriage right now does not mean his vocation is marriage. Perhaps his aversion to what marriage now represents is God’s way of preventing him from entering into marriage too hastily.

Whoever advised him to find a spiritual director must not be acquainted with the shortage of priests. Spiritual directors are few and far between these days. However, I don’t believe any priest would be too busy to meet with him a few times to discuss this issue.

 

[Gilly_flower]

If you don’t do something for fear of failure, you’ll never do anything…all human enterprises have the possibility that they will not end well and nothing in Life comes with a guarantee.

You are very young, and sound a little over-intense…and it is very easy to give up on the idea of marriage before you have met anyone you might actually want to marry…

Of course you can make up your mind to be lonely and childless for the rest of your life.

But why would you?

This whole discussion seems rather juvenile - but find a good girl, relax, and I’m willing to bet you’ll have as good a chance of happiness as any of us. Meantime chill!

 

[Rose71]

Why can I picture so many young, Catholic women throwing their hands up in the air and shouting, “there goes another one!”?

There are so many young Catholics out there who feel called to married life (and really, it makes sense that the majority have this calling while they are still young enough to have a family) and are waiting for a man who will stand with them against the secular and wealth-driven world that we live in.

If you want advice on staying celibate for now (or forever) then we have a saying in England, “look after the pennies and the pounds will look after themselves”. I think it can be applied to the whole human condition, as well as finances!

Focus on using the talents God has given you to make something of your life. Focus on your study, your character, the way you treat people on a day to day basis and of course, yoru spiritual life. Saying some sincere and thoughtful prayers for 5 minutes before you go to bed at night is far more useful than spending all day raging against the secular world and feeding a growing disgust for the world in your head.

You might spend your life as a celibate gentleman, doing good deeds and enjoying a fulfilling life within the community; you might end up as a priest or a monk; you might surprise yourself and end up as a husband and father. Whatever you do, don’t end up as a bitter old man who always managed to talk himself out of taking any chances.

I might sound harsh - but (apart from the fact I’m female) that is exactly what I’d be saying to my 21 year-old self if I could go back in time.

 

[Lily_Bernans]

If you don’t do something for fear of failure, you’ll never do anything…all human enterprises have the possibility that they will not end well and nothing in Life comes with a guarantee.

You are very young, and sound a little over-intense…and it is very easy to give up on the idea of marriage before you have met anyone you might actually want to marry…

Of course you can make up your mind to be lonely and childless for the rest of your life.

But why would you?

This whole discussion seems rather juvenile - but find a good girl, relax, and I’m willing to bet you’ll have as good a chance of happiness as any of us. Meantime chill!

Why are all of you trying to push him into marriage after he’s clearly stated that he doesn’t want that? And why do all of you seem to think that celibate people are unhappy? Was Therese of Lisieux unhappy? I don’t think so, yet she was celibate. Were Francis of Assisi, Teresa of Avila, John of the Cross, and John Paul II unhappy? It doesn’t seem they were, yet all were celibate. Granted, they are all saints who had a vocation to the religious life or to Holy Orders, but still, celibate people can be, and often are, much happier than married persons because they have more time to devote to Christ and to their personal relationship with him.

There is absolutely no logic in assuming that because one is celibate, one is going to be “lonely” and “unhappy.” Conversely, marriage does not always bring happiness. It often leads to adultery, bitterness, and divorce, and being Catholic does not insure that a spouse will be faithful or a model of “marital bliss.”

What he wants are ways to better accept a celibate lifestyle. For now.

Frequent reception of the Holy Eucharist will better help this young man decide whether or not he should marry or remain among the celibate laity (he’s said he feels no vocation to the religious life or to Holy Orders). Talking with a priest would also be helpful. Frankly, I don’t think a man who finds marriage abhorrent right now should marry.

 

[Xantippe]

Why are all of you trying to push him into marriage after he’s clearly stated that he doesn’t want that? And why do all of you seem to think that celibate people are unhappy? Was Therese of Lisieux unhappy? I don’t think so, yet she was celibate. Were Francis of Assisi, Teresa of Avila, John of the Cross, and John Paul II unhappy? It doesn’t seem they were, yet all were celibate. Granted, they are all saints who had a vocation to the religious life or to Holy Orders, but still, celibate people can be, and often are, much happier than married persons because they have more time to devote to Christ and to their personal relationship with him.

There is absolutely no logic in assuming that because one is celibate, one is going to be “lonely” and “unhappy.” Conversely, marriage does not always bring happiness. It often leads to adultery, bitterness, and divorce, and being Catholic does not insure that a spouse will be faithful or a model of “marital bliss.”

What he wants are ways to better accept a celibate lifestyle. For now.

Frequent reception of the Holy Eucharist will better help this young man decide whether or not he should marry or remain among the celibate laity (he’s said he feels no vocation to the religious life or to Holy Orders). Talking with a priest would also be helpful. Frankly, I don’t think a man who finds marriage abhorrent right now should marry.

Yes and no.

Yes, that a man who finds marriage abhorrent right now shouldn’t marry right now.

However, the OP says that he has “simply come to accept that I should not be looking for a wife because the present-day world is inherently unfavourable for the pursuit of a faithful marriage. Marriage would only jeopardise my ability to live productively and righteously whilst bringing numerous unnecessary stresses and spiritual harm.”

A few months ago, the OP was very eager to find a suitable woman to marry (ideally Polish-American or similar or deeply interested in Slavdom, with his kind of politics, and willing to travel regularly to Poland). He had VERY specific ideas.

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=947447&highlight=klemens+hadwig

The OP is not really embracing celibacy per se–he’s rejecting marriage because he’s given up hope that a happy marriage is possible for him.

That’s not at all the same situation as Teresa of Avila and John Paul II.

 

[Gilly_flower]

I couldn’t agree more…

I’m certainly not pushing him into marriage just advising him not to reject the idea that he could be happy if he married eventually. He sounds far too young and immature right now to be married, but one should never say never…and he has said he would like to marry but for his fear of it not working out…

 

[Lily_Bernans]

Yes and no.

Yes, that a man who finds marriage abhorrent right now shouldn’t marry right now.

However, the OP says that he has “simply come to accept that I should not be looking for a wife because the present-day world is inherently unfavourable for the pursuit of a faithful marriage. Marriage would only jeopardise my ability to live productively and righteously whilst bringing numerous unnecessary stresses and spiritual harm.”

A few months ago, the OP was very eager to find a suitable woman to marry (ideally Polish-American or similar or deeply interested in Slavdom, with his kind of politics, and willing to travel regularly to Poland). He had VERY specific ideas.

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=947447&highlight=klemens+hadwig

The OP is not really embracing celibacy per se–he’s rejecting marriage because he’s given up hope that a happy marriage is possible for him.

That’s not at all the same situation as Teresa of Avila and John Paul II.

Thank you for the answer and the link. I understand better now. I still think frequent reception of the Holy Eucharist is best while he’s “sort of” waiting to see what life (and God) bring.

I would agree that a happy marriage is not impossible for him, but I do think he would have to give up some of the specifics. We can’t tailor another to our specifications. I don’t want to be pessimistic about his chances, but honestly, I doubt that he’s going to find all that rolled into one young woman.

 

[Klemens_Hadwig]

I doubt that he’s going to find all that rolled into one young woman.

This is yet another sign for me. If young women around me fail to appeal as potential ‘wife material’ because they lack some important traits that I seek, why continue believing that I will eventually marry?

Our Lord does not usually ‘tell’ us our vocation in a direct voice. We must look at the various signs around us. For me, all the signs have been negative toward both marriage and clerical/monastic life. So far, all of the signs have pointed to a lay existence.

But like I said, I do not intend to debate my decision (that is for my spiritual director to discuss).

I only want advice on how to live a righteous, celibate life, while accepting the impossibility of a future marriage.

And yes, frequent reception of our Lord and attendance at Liturgy will certainly help, as per your kind suggestion.

 

[Lily_Bernans]

This is yet another sign for me. If young women around me fail to appeal as potential ‘wife material’ because they lack some important traits that I seek, why continue believing that I will eventually marry?

Our Lord does not usually ‘tell’ us our vocation in a direct voice. We must look at the various signs around us. For me, all the signs have been negative toward both marriage and clerical/monastic life. So far, all of the signs have pointed to a lay existence.

But like I said, I do not intend to debate my decision (that is for my spiritual director to discuss).

I only want advice on how to live a righteous, celibate life, while accepting the impossibility of a future marriage.

And yes, frequent reception of our Lord and attendance at Liturgy will certainly help, as per your kind suggestion.

Well, I do know how you feel. I’ve given up finding a husband, but then I do not feel any inclination toward marriage. Right now, the thought of being married is abhorrent to me. At one time, I did feel I had a vocation to the religious life, but something intervened and that did not happen.

I wish the Lord would tell us what he wants of us in a clear voice. Sometimes I feel as though he doesn’t want anything at all from me. I feel as though I have no vocation, and I’m a fifth year theology student. But you are exactly right, a vocation can be difficult to discern.

I don’t think you should debate your decision, and I would never presume to give you advice about that. That is something very personal. That’s why I wondered why so many people were telling you the “right girl” would come along.

I think I will be a member of the unmarried laity, too. I’m getting used to it. I have more time to cultivate my personal relationship with Christ this way.

 

[pensmama87]

This is yet another sign for me.** If young women around me fail to appeal as potential ‘wife material’ because they lack** some important traits that I seek, why continue believing that I will eventually marry?

I think it’s stuff like this that is making some of us go “hmmmm…”

It may very well be a sign that you’re not meant to be married, but I don’t think it’s for the same reasons that you think (note whose responsibility this stuff is, in your mind).

Some of us are trying to very gently suggest to you that writing off marriage may not be what you need, but an adjustment and a furthering to your understanding of what marriage is and what makes a suitable spouse. I hope you do have a very good spiritual director.

My concern is, as a reader, that from what I can tell of your posts you’re writing off marriage as a vocation for reasons that don’t have much to do with what God wants from us when it comes to marriage. You’re still very young (and I don’t mean that to be patronizing, I’m in my 20s too) and there are lots of people you’ve never met. If there are other reasons you haven’t disclosed that would indicate you have a vocation to be single and celibate, then OK, but the reasons you’ve given so far don’t seem to indicate to any of us at all that it’s the case - more that you might need to learn more about what marriage is and/or simply meet new people.

 

[Xantippe]

I think it’s stuff like this that is making some of us go “hmmmm…”

It may very well be a sign that you’re not meant to be married, but I don’t think it’s for the same reasons that you think (note whose responsibility this stuff is, in your mind).

Some of us are trying to very gently suggest to you that writing off marriage may not be what you need, but an adjustment and a furthering to your understanding of what marriage is and what makes a suitable spouse. I hope you do have a very good spiritual director.

My concern is, as a reader, that from what I can tell of your posts you’re writing off marriage as a vocation for reasons that don’t have much to do with what God wants from us when it comes to marriage. You’re still very young (and I don’t mean that to be patronizing, I’m in my 20s too) and there are lots of people you’ve never met. If there are other reasons you haven’t disclosed that would indicate you have a vocation to be single and celibate, then OK, but the reasons you’ve given so far don’t seem to indicate to any of us at all that it’s the case - more that you might need to learn more about what marriage is and/or simply meet new people.

Right.

We don’t get to order up a spouse like we’d order a new shirt off of Amazon–long-sleeves, Oxford cloth, no-iron, button down, French blue. A wife or a husband is not and has never been a product that we can be that specific about in advance. (And if we were successful in getting our list, we’d eventually realize that we had forgotten some equally crucial features.)

A person that we love romantically is a gift and a surprise–not what we would have created for ourselves, but a person better than we could have thought up, left to our own devices with a yellow legal pad and a lot of sharp pencils.

Years ago, when my husband was a grad student and first thinking of marriage, he was thrilled by the idea of marrying a woman in his academic field and together doing research with her! As it happens, there are very, very few women in his academic field and even fewer of them are practicing Catholics. There was, I believe, exactly one female Catholic graduate student in his program the whole time he was there, and she was not super orthodox. And then he met me. I was not in his program, but I was quite willing to hear about it! (As an interesting coincidence, my husband is a Slav like yourself and I was studying Slavic languages as a graduate student, including some basic Polish. There are whole academic department full of people that share your passions.)

Dave Ramsey, the radio guy, talks a lot about mixed marriages between financial nerds and free spirits and the benefits that come from diversity in marriage (the nerd keeps the checkbook balanced while the free spirit makes sure the family has fun). Dave Ramsey also frequently quotes a marriage expert (I don’t recall who) who says, “If the two of you are exactly the same, one of you is unnecessary.”

 

[BlueEyedLady]

I think it’s stuff like this that is making some of us go “hmmmm…”

It may very well be a sign that you’re not meant to be married, but I don’t think it’s for the same reasons that you think (note whose responsibility this stuff is, in your mind).

This is why I’m betting that he’ll grow up. He’s young. At that age, every man I’d encountered failed to appeal to me as a husband. I can only imagine how “wifely” I seemed. Look around, there just aren’t many early 20-somethings of either gender who are ready to be married. He will grow up, and so will the women around him.

When that happens, he may find that he truly isn’t called to marriage, and that’s fine. Or, he’ll decide that cost-benefit is the way to go and still choose to not be married, in which case, he’ll probably be pretty skeptical of the idea of being called to a vocation, and he won’t really be a devout Catholic. Not that I’m disparaging that. Clearly, I’m big on cost-benefit and not a Catholic. Or, he’ll marry, for any number of reasons or motivations.

I’m just not counting on his attitude or “decided vocation” being long lasting.

 

[Lily_Bernans]

Good grief! He’s a man! The US would deem him old enough to drink alcohol, drive, vote, and go to war to die for his country in a useless conflict with no resolution.

He SAID he didn’t want any advice on his decision, that it was between him and his spiritual advisor. Don’t you think it’s kind of rude to be discussing his “immaturity” when none of you know him except on a message board? At least respect him enough to respect his decisions and desires. It’s like you’re talking behind his back. There are men in my family who have never married for much the same reasons as the OP stated: they just didn’t want to. Married people always think every unmarried person wants to be married. We don’t. I would absolutely hate it.