Need ammo, had a debate with my brother

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rivera01

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A little background, I live with my brother whom is a fallen away Catholic and now professes the SDA faith. Yesterday he was making some coffee from Starbucks and asked me if I wanted some, my reply was no thank you, I do not support gay marriage. Which immediately casued him to take out the race card. And I told him that the homosexual agenda is not a civil matter. Because we are latino, he attempted to equivocate that buying Calvin Klein is equal to supporting racial discrimination to buying Starbucks and supporting gay marriage. Then he proceded to saying that basically all sin is equal. I told him that there are different degrees and severities of sin and all sin is not equal. But I was wondering if there is anything that I can read, listen etc to get more ammo to in order to defend the Churches position that you may recommend. Honestly, I am more aptly prepared for scriptural apologetics and a little lacking on the moral apologetics.
 
rivera01 said:
A little background, I live with my brother whom is a fallen away Catholic and now professes the SDA faith. Yesterday he was making some coffee from Starbucks and asked me if I wanted some, my reply was no thank you, I do not support gay marriage. Which immediately casued him to take out the race card. And I told him that the homosexual agenda is not a civil matter. Because we are latino, he attempted to equivocate that buying Calvin Klein is equal to supporting racial discrimination to buying Starbucks and supporting gay marriage. Then he proceded to saying that basically all sin is equal. I told him that there are different degrees and severities of sin and all sin is not equal. But I was wondering if there is anything that I can read, listen etc to get more ammo to in order to defend the Churches position that you may recommend. Honestly, I am more aptly prepared for scriptural apologetics and a little lacking on the moral apologetics.
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I’m not up to par with Starbucks but if they support gay marriage then why is that holding you back from having a cup of coffee? Hate the sin not the sinner. Ever heard of that? Well, don’t hate Starbucks just because they support something you do not agree with. If you enjoy having a cup of coffee from them then do it. It’s not sinful to enjoy something such as coffee. I never understood why people don’t want anything to do with a company that has a different view then them. It’s not all about your view, people are going to have different point of views and if we can’t get along with each other because the other person thinks something different then you need to stop yourself and look at what you’re doing. It’s not like Starbucks has “Support Gay Marriage” on it’s cups.
 
rivera01 said:
A little background, I live with my brother whom is a fallen away Catholic and now professes the SDA faith. Yesterday he was making some coffee from Starbucks and asked me if I wanted some, my reply was no thank you, I do not support gay marriage. Which immediately casued him to take out the race card. And I told him that the homosexual agenda is not a civil matter. Because we are latino, he attempted to equivocate that buying Calvin Klein is equal to supporting racial discrimination to buying Starbucks and supporting gay marriage. Then he proceded to saying that basically all sin is equal. I told him that there are different degrees and severities of sin and all sin is not equal. But I was wondering if there is anything that I can read, listen etc to get more ammo to in order to defend the Churches position that you may recommend. Honestly, I am more aptly prepared for scriptural apologetics and a little lacking on the moral apologetics.
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John says that all sin is not the same. See 1 John 5:161-7. As to Calvin Klein, does your brother object to Latinos working, or would he prefer to see them unemployed and begging?

The SDA is a denomination whose odd beliefs are easily deconstructed. Even though they are Christian, they do not follow the bible faithfully, and have some beliefs on common with the Jehovah’s Witnesses. As to dealing with the SDA, a copy of The Essential Catholic Survival Guide will be a great help. It deals specifically with the SDA, as well as the LDS and JWs, along with many other areas.

Also, consider getting a copy of Catholicism for Dummies. You may never convert your brother back, but you may use it to explain Church teaching, and why we believe what we believe. You will be able to rely on it for years to come. Then, rely on the Holy Spirit to do the rest.
 
It is pointless to argue about religion or morals with your brother. If your brother originally had proper instruction in our Catholic Faith and he has gone over to the SDA. your pro-Catholic arguments are falling on deaf ears. I would be willing to bet that somewhere in the process of his “conversion”, there was a young lady of that persuasion involved. It is a common tactic of theirs, especially with Latino young men.
All of your arguments will be of no avail as long as his hormones are blinding him.
 
If you want a good discussion instead of a good fight, you might want to start by asking him what the Seventh-day Adventist Church teaches, and ask your brother why he joined them. You can then tell him he is always welcome to return to the Catholic faith and you’d be glad to have him go with you to mass.

🙂
 
George_Stegmeir said:
I would be willing to bet that somewhere in the process of his “conversion”, there was a young lady of that persuasion involved. It is a common tactic of theirs, especially with Latino young men. All of your arguments will be of no avail as long as his hormones are blinding him.
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Ah, you are too insightful my friend. Yes, as a matter of fact, there is a young lady involved in his “conversion”. Unfortunately he did not receive the proper catechesis, because he use to say he was atheist and didnt even beleive in God, and made fun of me because I beleived in God, and that the Church was against science, etc. Of course when ever I showed the evidence to the contrary, he would walk away…so go figure.

My brother’s Calvin Klein remark was because, I do not know how true this is or not, but that CK clothing, etc. is not for latinos, so he equivocated racial discrimination with that of being against gay marriage.

I have been thinking of asking him why he joined the SDA’s and having an actual discussion, but he is hardly home. I want to really engage him, but I also recognize that I have to pray for him.

Thanks for the links!
 
rivera01 said:
A little background, I live with my brother whom is a fallen away Catholic and now professes the SDA faith. Yesterday he was making some coffee from Starbucks and asked me if I wanted some, my reply was no thank you, I do not support gay marriage. Which immediately casued him to take out the race card. And I told him that the homosexual agenda is not a civil matter. Because we are latino, he attempted to equivocate that buying Calvin Klein is equal to supporting racial discrimination to buying Starbucks and supporting gay marriage. Then he proceded to saying that basically all sin is equal. I told him that there are different degrees and severities of sin and all sin is not equal. But I was wondering if there is anything that I can read, listen etc to get more ammo to in order to defend the Churches position that you may recommend. Honestly, I am more aptly prepared for scriptural apologetics and a little lacking on the moral apologetics.
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God bless you for standing up for your beliefs. I wanted to buy an item a while ago and it was on amazon but for a lot less than on ebay but because of the stand on marriage that the CEO of amazon has taken I chose to buy the item that was more expensive on ebay

Why would purchasing Calvin Klein be equal to supporting racial discrimiantion?
 
_Abyssinia said:
Why would purchasing Calvin Klein be equal to supporting racial discrimiantion?
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I originally thought that it was because they manufacture in Latin countries and his brother thought that was some form of oppression of workers in a “sweat shop”. Now, I’m not so sure what it meant. OP will probably clarify.
 
Dude! Just go to gun-deals.com if you need ammo!

They got every caliber from every kind of dealer -

Oh, wait, you want… moral… ammo.

Well, I’m no expert. But the guy who made this site is.
scripturecatholic.com/homosexuality.html

He also deals in contraception, which is probably something you’ll need to address since gay perversion is little different from the perversion of contraception:
scripturecatholic.com/contraception.html

And here’s some real ammo in case you get desperate…
http://www.gunholstersunlimited.com...9/A-Ton-of-Ammunition-Photo-Credit-Zimbio.jpg
 
po18guy said:
I originally thought that it was because they manufacture in Latin countries and his brother thought that was some form of oppression of workers in a “sweat shop”. Now, I’m not so sure what it meant. OP will probably clarify.
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No, he stated that because supposedly Calvin Klein previously stated, I do not know when, that the CK products are not made to be worn by latinos.
 
rivera01 said:
No, he stated that because supposedly Calvin Klein previously stated, I do not know when, that the CK products are not made to be worn by latinos.
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And, since rumors are much more true than truth… :rolleyes:
You must know this by now, but the SDA absolutely hate the Catholic Church. They believe that she is the “whore of Babylon” and that the Pope is the antichrist. Lots of other odd beliefs as well. The Essential Catholic Survival Guide will prep you for dealing with his claims.
 
po18guy said:
And, since rumors are much more true than truth… :rolleyes:
You must know this by now, but the SDA absolutely hate the Catholic Church. They believe that she is the “whore of Babylon” and that the Pope is the antichrist. Lots of other odd beliefs as well. The Essential Catholic Survival Guide will prep you for dealing with his claims.
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Yes, I have been studying this group since my other brother, besides the one im mentioning in this thread, converted to SDA because of his wife. I have absolutely no problem refuting their claims of the Catholic Church. I was looking as far as getting a more socio-cultural defense of traditional marriage and how the homosexual marriage agenda undermines it. I have seen a few videos and listened to some of the talks that are posted here on Catholic Answers, and they are great, but I just wanted to get that cultural side.
 
TarkanAttila said:
Dude! Just go to gun-deals.com if you need ammo!

They got every caliber from every kind of dealer -

Oh, wait, you want… moral… ammo.

Well, I’m no expert. But the guy who made this site is.
scripturecatholic.com/homosexuality.html

He also deals in contraception, which is probably something you’ll need to address since gay perversion is little different from the perversion of contraception:
scripturecatholic.com/contraception.html

And here’s some real ammo in case you get desperate…
http://www.gunholstersunlimited.com...9/A-Ton-of-Ammunition-Photo-Credit-Zimbio.jpg
Click to expand...
Thanks for the links! I wish I had something to shoot that ammo with 😛 or afford to get one lol
 
Why argue? Just lead by example. I heard that a crazy guy named Francis ( I think he was Italian) lived that way. It seemed to have worked for him…:cool:
 
rivera01 said:
A little background, I live with my brother whom is a fallen away Catholic and now professes the SDA faith. Yesterday he was making some coffee from Starbucks and asked me if I wanted some, my reply was no thank you, I do not support gay marriage. Which immediately casued him to take out the race card. And I told him that the homosexual agenda is not a civil matter. Because we are latino, he attempted to equivocate that buying Calvin Klein is equal to supporting racial discrimination to buying Starbucks and supporting gay marriage. Then he proceded to saying that basically all sin is equal. I told him that there are different degrees and severities of sin and all sin is not equal. But I was wondering if there is anything that I can read, listen etc to get more ammo to in order to defend the Churches position that you may recommend. Honestly, I am more aptly prepared for scriptural apologetics and a little lacking on the moral apologetics.
Click to expand...
If your bro is SDA - Seventh Day Adventist, isn’t he supposed to avoid caffeine? Regardless, as far as “ammo” I’d suggest you buy some armor piercing hollow points, and just leave the receipt out where he can see it, that should keep him quiet.
 
I see a blurring of your brother’s “argument” here. Even if Calvin Klein did say such a thing, what has he done with corporate money to cause any ill effects on the Latino community? What anti-Latino legislation has he supported? Starbuck’s president Howard Schultz materially contributed to the support of the divisive legislation in Washington State that passed narrowly, and which destroys the definition of marriage. He made SSU a corporate policy. Afraid I simply don;t get your brother’s argument.

I think you brother might have been speaking defensively when you challenged his support for a corporation which opposes his own SDA beliefs. Here is the officla statement on marriage from the SDA:

adventist.org/beliefs/statements/main-stat16.html
 
Um, your story sounds confrontational and holier than though. You said that he was making coffee that he already bought and offered you some. Drinking it would have in no way supported the company. Instead of politely accepting or declining you unnecessarily used his offer as an excuse to bring up an emotional topic that you know you disagree on. You don’t need ammo, you and your brother just need to learn how to get along without everything being a potential landmine.
 
BlueEyedLady said:
Um, your story sounds confrontational and holier than though. You said that he was making coffee that he already bought and offered you some. Drinking it would have in no way supported the company. Instead of politely accepting or declining you unnecessarily used his offer as an excuse to bring up an emotional topic that you know you disagree on. You don’t need ammo, you and your brother just need to learn how to get along without everything being a potential landmine.
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Indeed; having a cup of coffee is in no way supporting the company, especially if you, yourself, did not pay for it. I feel the OP is being rather confrontational — attempting to seize the moment to start a confrontation with his brother — as well. There is no need for any “ammo.”
 
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