Need Help In Answering a Baptist

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Hello,
I am new to this Catholic Forum. I would like to ask the help of Catholics who are very knowledgable about our faith and the Bible. I befriended a baptist on FB and have since sent out post regarding the Month of May and the Virgin Mary. I also posted some writings from St. Louis De Montfort about Mary “True Devotion To Mary” and have received some nasty comments from this baptist. I have tried to explain to her that Catholics do not “worship” Mary, as is the misconception of mostly all protestants, but that Catholics hold Mary in high esteem and revere her for her exalted state given to her by God to bear His Only Son. I received this response and ask your help in answering her with wisdom and kindness.
Here is what she said:
"yes I agree that the lord searched the hearts of and chose (from among the kindred of David)a pure and innocent young earthly woman,Mary. let us not forget the "earthly "part.But let us also not for get that Mary did her part, she raised to… manhood, the savior of mankind.But i’d like to point out that Mary never fed 5000 souls from a few fishes and loves, Mary never taught common people to be “fishers of men” Mary never rose anyone from the dead nor has she risen from the dead,Mary never sat with thousands and taught how to pray(Jesus said: do not pray as the heathen do,repeating prayers over and over!)or how to love or how to live.

I feel the need at this point to add that the “catholic church” was not formed by Jesus when he said “upon this rock I shall build my church”( that is a total mis-interpretation of the words of Christ) because Peter the disciple was a “Baptist”, he was “Baptized by immersion” not by a sprinkling of water on his scull in his infancy without his freewill and testimony.Baptists are not “protest-ants”.We are not and have never been “protesting” anything, we trace our lineage right back to the discipleship after the actions of Jesus, when he requested of his cousin John, to be “baptized” by immersion.The “Catholic church” was not formed until nearly 400 years after the death and resurrection of Jesus! by the emperor Constantine to quell unrest among hostile factions of “Christian” leaning groups, and and appointing Rome the center of the governing body.

This was meant to be posted between my two other posts: EPHESIANS 2:18> For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the FATHER "***

Thank you to anyone who is willing to help me with this dialogue with this baptist. I’m sure there will be many more posts like this one.
God bless you all,
CEA
 
Ask her for the documentation of evidence for Baptist theology in the early church. Provide her, then, with evidence of Catholic theology in the early church.

Beyond that, pray.
 
first of all a friend doesn’t respond to discussion in a nasty way, so maybe a rethink is needed of if your time is wasted with this person.
as Jesus hung dying on the cross he said to Peter ‘‘son embrace your mother’’

as a church we embrace our mother in Mary, we respect her not worship her, no more so than the Baptists embrace John or the Lutherans Luther or the Methodists Weseley.

many non Catholic christians will go to the grave sites of their loved ones who have died & have a little chat or at quieter times lift their eyes to heaven & tell them how much they miss them or love them.

As Catholics with the Saints it is a simular thing inasmuch we seek their guidance their prayers to God on our behalf & this is the context of our relationship with Mary, we seek her intercession on our behalf & offer her the respect deserved for raising the Son of Man Jesus, we don’t replace God with her or any of the Saints, we don’t worship idols as any reverence offered to the crucifix is directed to Jesus not the earthly materials used or the form it takes.

As per baptism most christian faiths now accept & recognise each others Baptism’s yet the Baptist church believes as an infant you cannot choose so an infant Baptism is not valid & they don’t recognise an infant Catholic Baptism
 
Her response typifies both a profound ignorance of Christian history as well as an embracing of a revisionist history of Christianity. She is essentially brainwashed and there is likely nothing that you can ever say, do or offer to her that will change her mind. The part about Baptists tracing back to John the Baptist is hilarious, actually, since his baptism could not save. She demonstrates her prejudice and bigotry against Catholicism by including made-up non-biblical “information” in her response.

Pray for her. The Holy Spirit illumines minds - you and I do not.

For your own part, please obtain a copy of Catholicism for Dummies. It will greatly help you in learning and defending your faith.

If she is willing to learn from you, just keep the dialog open.
 
Remember to always pray before forming a response to a person who is giving you all the old canards that have been refuted before. They have been taught these things about the Catholic Church since they were children, and have not investigated and learned that they are untrue.

If it is not possible to have a reasonable discussion with the person, then just let it go. It is important that two people respect the dignity of each other when having a dialogue about faith differences.

My thought regarding Infant Baptism: I have been taught that the parents are responsible for the upbringing of their children in the faith. They stand in and accept the faith which they will be raising their child in.

With regard to Baptism by immersion: It is a very meaningful way to baptize, but please ask your friend to google “Didache” which is how the early Christians did things. When water was not available for immersion they also poured, or sprinkled water on the person. It is just as valid.

And, as for immersion being more meaningful: There are now Catholic Churches being built that have a small pool for immersion.

Another good book, if you want to learn about apologetics, is “Catholicism and Fundamentalism”
by Karl Keating. All the things you mentioned, and much more, is answered in that book.

But, please remember, if the person continues to irk you and argue, just calmly back away from it all and thank the Lord for your gift of faith in all the truths of our one, holy, Catholic and apostolic faith!

You have no power to change their mind if it is closed. Only the Lord can do that if they are open to it. Just give them to the Lord and let it be.
 
pat_helensburgh said:
first of all a friend doesn’t respond to discussion in a nasty way, so maybe a rethink is needed of if your time is wasted with this person.
as Jesus hung dying on the cross he said to John ‘‘son embrace your mother’’

as a church we embrace our mother in Mary, we respect her not worship her, no more so than the Baptists embrace John or the Lutherans Luther or the Methodists Weseley.

many non Catholic christians will go to the grave sites of their loved ones who have died & have a little chat or at quieter times lift their eyes to heaven & tell them how much they miss them or love them.

As Catholics with the Saints it is a simular thing inasmuch we seek their guidance their prayers to God on our behalf & this is the context of our relationship with Mary, we seek her intercession on our behalf & offer her the respect deserved for raising the Son of Man Jesus, we don’t replace God with her or any of the Saints, we don’t worship idols as any reverence offered to the crucifix is directed to Jesus not the earthly materials used or the form it takes.

As per baptism most christian faiths now accept & recognise each others Baptism’s yet the Baptist church believes as an infant you cannot choose so an infant Baptism is not valid & they don’t recognise an infant Catholic Baptism
Click to expand...
 
Dorothy said:
Remember to always pray before forming a response to a person who is giving you all the old canards that have been refuted before. They have been taught these things about the Catholic Church since they were children, and have not investigated and learned that they are untrue.

If it is not possible to have a reasonable discussion with the person, then just let it go. It is important that two people respect the dignity of each other when having a dialogue about faith differences.

My thought regarding Infant Baptism: I have been taught that the parents are responsible for the upbringing of their children in the faith. They stand in and accept the faith which they will be raising their child in.

With regard to Baptism by immersion: It is a very meaningful way to baptize, but please ask your friend to google “Didache” which is how the early Christians did things. When water was not available for immersion they also poured, or sprinkled water on the person. It is just as valid.

And, as for immersion being more meaningful: There are now Catholic Churches being built that have a small pool for immersion.

Another good book, if you want to learn about apologetics, is “Catholicism and Fundamentalism”
by Karl Keating. All the things you mentioned, and much more, is answered in that book.

But, please remember, if the person continues to irk you and argue, just calmly back away from it all and thank the Lord for your gift of faith in all the truths of our one, holy, Catholic and apostolic faith!

You have no power to change their mind if it is closed. Only the Lord can do that if they are open to it. Just give them to the Lord and let it be.
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Yes, thank you dearest Dorothy! Your words of wisdom are well written, as are all the responses I am receiving from this thread. I again thank you all so very much and will take all advice most seriously!
God bless you all,
CEAbbott
 
po18guy said:
Her response typifies both a profound ignorance of Christian history as well as an embracing of a revisionist history of Christianity. She is essentially brainwashed and there is likely nothing that you can ever say, do or offer to her that will change her mind. The part about Baptists tracing back to John the Baptist is hilarious, actually, since his baptism could not save. She demonstrates her prejudice and bigotry against Catholicism by including made-up non-biblical “information” in her response.

Pray for her. The Holy Spirit illumines minds - you and I do not.

For your own part, please obtain a copy of Catholicism for Dummies. It will greatly help you in learning and defending your faith.

If she is willing to learn from you, just keep the dialog open.
Click to expand...
I was in a mood when I first responded. I would soften my response, in retrospect. Her defenses are hardened at this point, because she has been taught falsehoods about the Catholic faith by a well-meaning person that she trusts. But, as Dorothy wisely suggested, prayers will call down God’s graces, and graces change the face of this earth. Once you are prepared, have your friend pick her pet peeve with the Catholic Church and then dissect it slowly and patiently. Neither you nor I can smash a brick wall, but we can remove it one brick at a time.

If you do purchase Catholicism for Dummies, and I heartily suggest that you do, maybe get a copy for her, as well. She may not be ready for it just yet, but the truth has a way of nagging at one until it is examined in depth.

Christ’s peace be with you.
 
Dorothy said:
My thought regarding Infant Baptism: I have been taught that the parents are responsible for the upbringing of their children in the faith. They stand in and accept the faith which they will be raising their child in.

With regard to Baptism by immersion: It is a very meaningful way to baptize, but please ask your friend to google “Didache” which is how the early Christians did things. When water was not available for immersion they also poured, or sprinkled water on the person. It is just as valid.

And, as for immersion being more meaningful: There are now Catholic Churches being built that have a small pool for immersion.
Click to expand...
I wrote this a few months ago…

This passage is taken directly from the Didache, the oldest authentic non-Biblical Christian document we have. It’s so old, it was written even before parts of the New Testament, such as Revelations. (It dates probably to about 70 AD, which means that this is not some innovation, because at least some of the Apostles were STILL ALIVE.) The reason it wasn’t included in the canon of the Bible had NOTHING to do with it’s accuracy or authenticity. It was simply because it discussed traditions here on Earth, and it was not deemed to be inspired. In other words, it was mainly a procedural document, rather than discussing our eternal salvation. Historians widely regard it as an true document of that era (and I’m a professional historian). Now that said… look at what it says about baptism:

7:1 But concerning baptism, thus baptize ye: having first recited all these precepts, baptize in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit, in running water;

7:2 but if thou hast not running water, baptize in some other water, and if thou canst not baptize in cold, in warm water;

7:3 but if thou hast neither, pour water three times on the head, in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit.

This document, and other historical documents like it, CLEARLY demonstrate that in the early church, baptism by pouring or sprinkling was allowed and practiced. It wasn’t the preferred method, but it was perfectly acceptable. So, why was it allowed at all, and why did it become so common? Remember, that many people at that time lived in large urban areas like Rome, and you wouldn’t want to go baptize people in a river, since the river was also your sewer. That continued to hold true (sewage wise) until relatively recently in history, I might add.
 
Rolltide said:
I wrote this a few months ago…

This passage is taken directly from the Didache, the oldest authentic non-Biblical Christian document we have. It’s so old, it was written even before parts of the New Testament, such as Revelations. (It dates probably to about 70 AD, which means that this is not some innovation, because at least some of the Apostles were STILL ALIVE.) The reason it wasn’t included in the canon of the Bible had NOTHING to do with it’s accuracy or authenticity. It was simply because it discussed traditions here on Earth, and it was not deemed to be inspired. In other words, it was mainly a procedural document, rather than discussing our eternal salvation. Historians widely regard it as an true document of that era (and I’m a professional historian). Now that said… look at what it says about baptism:

7:1 But concerning baptism, thus baptize ye: having first recited all these precepts, baptize in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit, in running water;

7:2 but if thou hast not running water, baptize in some other water, and if thou canst not baptize in cold, in warm water;

7:3 but if thou hast neither, pour water three times on the head, in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit.

This document, and other historical documents like it, CLEARLY demonstrate that in the early church, baptism by pouring or sprinkling was allowed and practiced. It wasn’t the preferred method, but it was perfectly acceptable. So, why was it allowed at all, and why did it become so common? Remember, that many people at that time lived in large urban areas like Rome, and you wouldn’t want to go baptize people in a river, since the river was also your sewer. That continued to hold true (sewage wise) until relatively recently in history, I might add.
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Thank you for posting directly from the Didache!
 
CEAbbott said:
Hello,
I am new to this Catholic Forum. I would like to ask the help of Catholics who are very knowledgable about our faith and the Bible. I befriended a baptist on FB and have since sent out post regarding the Month of May and the Virgin Mary. I also posted some writings from St. Louis De Montfort about Mary “True Devotion To Mary” and have received some nasty comments from this baptist. I have tried to explain to her that Catholics do not “worship” Mary, as is the misconception of mostly all protestants, but that Catholics hold Mary in high esteem and revere her for her exalted state given to her by God to bear His Only Son. I received this response and ask your help in answering her with wisdom and kindness.
Here is what she said:
"yes I agree that the lord searched the hearts of and chose (from among the kindred of David)a pure and innocent young earthly woman,Mary. let us not forget the "earthly "part.But let us also not for get that Mary did her part, she raised to… manhood, the savior of mankind.But i’d like to point out that Mary never fed 5000 souls from a few fishes and loves, Mary never taught common people to be “fishers of men” Mary never rose anyone from the dead nor has she risen from the dead,Mary never sat with thousands and taught how to pray(Jesus said: do not pray as the heathen do,repeating prayers over and over!)or how to love or how to live.

I feel the need at this point to add that the “catholic church” was not formed by Jesus when he said “upon this rock I shall build my church”( that is a total mis-interpretation of the words of Christ) because Peter the disciple was a “Baptist”, he was “Baptized by immersion” not by a sprinkling of water on his scull in his infancy without his freewill and testimony.Baptists are not “protest-ants”.We are not and have never been “protesting” anything, we trace our lineage right back to the discipleship after the actions of Jesus, when he requested of his cousin John, to be “baptized” by immersion.The “Catholic church” was not formed until nearly 400 years after the death and resurrection of Jesus! by the emperor Constantine to quell unrest among hostile factions of “Christian” leaning groups, and and appointing Rome the center of the governing body.

This was meant to be posted between my two other posts: EPHESIANS 2:18> For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the FATHER "***

Thank you to anyone who is willing to help me with this dialogue with this baptist. I’m sure there will be many more posts like this one.
God bless you all,
CEA
Click to expand...
Trying to respond to something like the above can be overwhelming, because it contains so many errors and misunderstandings of Catholic doctrine that it can be hard to know where to begin, or which one to address first. (I have faced the same issue with trying to explain Catholicism to my family.) That difficulty is compounded by the fact that many fundamentalist or Evangelical Christians often don’t even want to learn about the Catholic faith, or hear that their ideas concerning Catholicism are wrong.

But it’s good to at least try to respond to your friend the best you can. The “faith” tab here on Catholic Answers contains quite a few articles. Just search for key words, and you will come up many helpful articles on all topics. Also, if your friend is open to reading a book, A Biblical Defense of Catholicism by Dave Armstrong is great, as well as Catholicism and Fundamentalism by Karl Keating.
 
pat_helensburgh said:
first of all a friend doesn’t respond to discussion in a nasty way, so maybe a rethink is needed of if your time is wasted with this person.
as Jesus hung dying on the cross he said to Peter ‘‘son embrace your mother’’

as a church we embrace our mother in Mary, we respect her not worship her, no more so than the Baptists embrace John or the Lutherans Luther or the Methodists Weseley.

many non Catholic christians will go to the grave sites of their loved ones who have died & have a little chat or at quieter times lift their eyes to heaven & tell them how much they miss them or love them.

As Catholics with the Saints it is a simular thing inasmuch we seek their guidance their prayers to God on our behalf & this is the context of our relationship with Mary, we seek her intercession on our behalf & offer her the respect deserved for raising the Son of Man Jesus, we don’t replace God with her or any of the Saints, we don’t worship idols as any reverence offered to the crucifix is directed to Jesus not the earthly materials used or the form it takes.

As per baptism most christian faiths now accept & recognise each others Baptism’s yet the Baptist church believes as an infant you cannot choose so an infant Baptism is not valid & they don’t recognise an infant Catholic Baptism
Click to expand...
As a general rule non-Catholics denominations have very little if any sacramental theology and and as a consequence a particular denomination may have none or maybe 1 or 2 sacraments that they believe in. In the case of Catholic Sacramental Theology, belief and practice, the parents speak for the child in baptism and the child, at about age 12 or 13 or later, speaks for his/her self, accepts their infant baptism and in so so doing completes that baptism when making an informed choice to receive the Sacrament of Confirmation. Wasn’t Jesus presented in the temple by Joseph and Mary as an infant to God the Father? Doesn’t that seem to parallel parents bringing their infants to Church now to be “presented” to the Lord and have Original Sin removed and their soul sanctified and brought into the supernatural state that Adam and Eve enjoyed before they in effect told God by their disobedience that He did not decide what is good and what is evil but they did?
 
Kill her with kindness, you may want to give her a copy of the Apostolic Fathers. The passage in the didache on baptism alone would get her thinking.
 
The Library section of the catholic.com website is indeed the place to look for answers to your questions, as Dorothy says. It has the answers.

For the “vain repetitions” argument, you can dispose of this by pointing out the following:
scripturecatholic.com:
Matt. 6:7 - Jesus teaches, “do not heap up empty phrases” in prayer. Protestants use this verse to criticize various Catholic forms of prayer which repeat phrases, such as litanies and the Rosary. But Jesus’ focus in this instruction is on the “vain,” and not on the “repetition.”

Matt. 26:44 - for example, Jesus prayed a third time in the garden of Gethsemane, saying the exact same words again. It is not the repetition that is the issue. It’s the vanity. God looks into our heart, not solely at our words.

Luke 18:13 - the tax collector kept beating his breast and praying “God be merciful to me, a sinner.” This repetitive prayer was pleasing to God because it was offered with a sincere and repentant heart.

Acts 10:2,4 - Cornelius prayed constantly to the Lord and his prayers ascended as a memorial before God.

Rom. 1:9 - Paul says that he always mentions the Romans in his prayers without ceasing.

Rom. 12:12 - Paul commands us to be constant in prayer. God looks at what is in our heart, not necessarily how we choose our words.

1 Thess. 5:17 - Paul commands us to pray constantly. Good repetition is different than vain repetition.

Rev. 4:8 - the angels pray day and night without cessation the same words “Holy, Holy, Holy is the Lord God Almighty.” This is repetitious prayer that is pleasing to God.

Psalm 136 - in this Psalm, the phrase “For His steadfast love endures forever” is more repetitious than any Catholic prayer, and it is God’s divine Word.

Dan. 3:35-66 - the phrase “Bless the Lord” is similarly offered repeatedly, and mirrors Catholic litanies.
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For the argument on immersion vs. sprinkling in baptism, I recommend the following article from catholic.com:
catholic.com/library/Baptism_Immersion_Only.asp
 
The Virgin Mary did not raise the dead or perform visible miracles, not because she was weak in the faith. Elizabeth says in Luke 1 that Mary is the most blessed of all women, and that all the ages would call her blessed!

Mary’s lifestyle was contemplative. Luke mentions two different cases where an event takes place and Mary “pondered these things in her heart.” Also, when she was speaking with Gabriel, she pondered in her heart what he meant when he called her “highly favored,” or “full of grace.” She ponders and contemplates. She also immerses herself in humility, in the Gospels, hiding herself away so that Christ might get all the attention, like the saints have all done, hiding themselves and their works as much as they can, to give Christ the glory. Devotion to Jesus through Mary is the swiftest way of drawing closer to God, though.

I don’t know how to discuss such a vast subject in brief! There are so many scriptures one must look into. Such a huge, huge number.

I recommend this article as a useful starting point, for understanding the deeper levels of Mary’s meaning in Scripture:

catholic.com/thisrock/2009/0905fea7.asp

I also recommend this article by Bl. Cardinal Newman:

christendom-awake.org/pages/marian/newman1.html

Read those two articles. They will help you understand and explain the spiritual significance of Mary’s role in scripture more clearly.

Your friend also argued against infant baptism. In response to that, I recommend the following article: catholic.com/library/Infant_Baptism.asp

The argument that the Catholic Church was formed by Emperor Constantine is easy to disprove, by simply showing that the Early Church before Constantine looked the same as the Church after Constantine. Citing the Fathers on any doctrine can show the continuity of the teaching, succession and authority structure. Catholic.com can help you with this. The Papacy in Rome was already the central authority of Christianity long before Constantine, and I know of no evidence to support the assertion that Constantine started it.

One other thought. I don’t recommend quoting “True Devotion to Mary,” to Protestants. The book is a very hard one for Protestants to swallow, because its rich praise of Mary, and the theology it develops, is so completely foreign to them. Even many Catholics have trouble with the book. It’s an excellent work; I love it! But it isn’t written for Protestants and is very foreign to their ideology, without seeking to explain itself for them, for they aren’t the intended audience. One has to approach Protestants by explaining in a clear way from scripture why we believe what we do about Mary, and while St. Louis cites scripture at times, he usually doesn’t prove but assumes the Catholic point of view in his choice of passages. A Protestant could easily interpret these passages differently, if they had a strong enough stomach to get past St. Louis’ outpouring of praise toward Mary, and got that far or looked that deep.

“True Devotion” is a magnificent book, but if you want to reach a Protestant, I recommend getting “Hail Holy Queen,” by Scott Hahn, for it includes scripture passages and theological explanations that Protestants will not be able to explain away. If you quote sections of “Hail Holy Queen” for your friend, she’ll have a lot more trouble. If she has an open enough mind to think about your views at all.

You know, I recommend reading the articles I’ve recommended to you, even if your friend has a closed heart, because you might meet someone else who has the same objections, but be able to help them, if you do the research now :). It’ll bless you, too. It’s pleasant to learn more about the faith :).
 
Lief_Erikson said:
d!

Mary’s lifestyle was contemplative. Luke mentions two different cases where an event takes place and Mary “pondered these things in her heart.” Also, when she was speaking with Gabriel, she pondered in her heart what he meant when he called her “highly favored,” or “full of grace.” She ponders and contemplates. She also immerses herself in humility, in the Gospels, hiding herself away so that Christ might get all the attention, like the saints have all done, hiding themselves and their works as much as they can, to give Christ the glory.
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So then why do we elevate her to such a degree, going so far as to have processions with Marian statues?
 
TrueLight said:
So then why do we elevate her to such a degree, going so far as to have processions with Marian statues?
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Proverbs 25:2, “It is the glory of God to conceal a thing; But the glory of kings is to search out a matter.”

We imitate the Holy Spirit :). Mary imitates God by hiding in humility, for, “it is the glory of God to conceal a thing,” but we imitate the Holy Spirit, like kings, by revealing her, out of love. The Holy Spirit loves to reveal and glorify Mary, through His faithful servants. See the following story, for an example of this:

Luke 1

39
During those days Mary set out and traveled to the hill country in haste to a town of Judah,
40
where she entered the house of Zechariah and greeted Elizabeth.
41
When Elizabeth heard Mary’s greeting, the infant leaped in her womb, and Elizabeth, filled with the holy Spirit,
42
cried out in a loud voice and said, “Most blessed are you among women, and blessed is the fruit of your womb.
43
And how does this happen to me, that the mother of my Lord should come to me?
44
For at the moment the sound of your greeting reached my ears, the infant in my womb leaped for joy.
45
Blessed are you who believed that what was spoken to you by the Lord would be fulfilled.”
46
And Mary said: "My soul proclaims the greatness of the Lord;
47
my spirit rejoices in God my savior.
48
For he has looked upon his handmaid’s lowliness; behold, from now on will all ages call me blessed.
49
The Mighty One has done great things for me, and holy is his name.

I am reminded, as I look at this story, of many similar stories from the lives of the saints. The saints delight in hiding themselves for the glory of God. The Lord delights in then revealing His servants through His divine power!

St. Catherine of Siena and St. Teresa of Avila were bodily raised into the air in levitation, during ecstasy. They repeatedly asked the Lord to let them hide, to not levitate them, but He ignored their prayers. St. Catherine of Siena actually tied herself down, so she wouldn’t rise, but the Lord waited until she was walking in a courtyard before lifting her up visibly in the presence of many nuns. Teresa of Avila writes that God often exposes His faithful ones like this, after they have become extremely humble.

St. John Vianney tried to hide his miracles by always asking for them through the intercession of Saint Philomena, so that he could dodge the glory of having it known that he was working miracles. Whenever he was praised, he would point out St. Philomena and say it was her that made the useful intercession. However, sometimes, the Lord proved his sanctity by performing the miracle the instant St. John Vianney touched the sick person, before the saint had time to ask St. Philomena’s help. Thus the Lord proved to people that He loved to work through St. John, even though he tried to hide it.

St. Catherine of Siena received the visible stigmata, but she prayed that the Lord would make it invisible, out of humility. The Lord granted her prayer, but He said that He would make it visible to all upon her death. Then He fulfilled His promise, and when she died, her stigmata became visible to all.

Countless times these kinds of things are recorded in the lives of the saints. The saint hides, out of humility, and God reveals the saint, out of love. The saint even does his or her best to hide, but eventually the Lord blows their cover! Sometimes the saint even fights the Lord, like Catherine, trying to tie herself down so she wouldn’t levitate, and praying so that her stigmata would disappear, because they love humility, but the Lord blows their cover, regardless.

I remember reading about a saint who was falsely accused of many things in the city he lived in, but the Virgin Mary so cared for his honor that she appeared visibly to his accusers and told them how she loved him and how faithfully he served her. The saint’s honor was completely restored, but he fled the city, knowing how people would massively venerate him because of this. God exposed him through Mary; he fled through humility. But interestingly, God doesn’t usually give supernatural gifts to a person until she is humble enough to hide them, because He doesn’t want them to be tempted with pride. And He doesn’t “expose” the saint’s gifts until He is confident the saint will not fall.

This kind of back and forth between God and His saints could be called a “lovers’ quarrel,” if you will! It is a strange part of the mystical life one can see in the lives of many saints, including Mary and Jesus. It can be seen in how the Holy Spirit reveals Jesus Christ, even though Jesus hides. Jesus hides Himself behind the appearance of bread and wine, the perfect image of humility. When He was on Earth, He hid His divinity under the appearance of a normal man, a veil that was lifted briefly during the Transfiguration, when His apostles saw Him shining with glory.

Even though Jesus deliberately hides under the appearance of bread and wine, the Holy Spirit in us delights in revealing Jesus to others and glorifying Him perpetually. Mary hid, yet the Spirit revealed her too, in Luke 1 and Rev. 12, and He reveals her again and again to souls throughout history! And we glorify her, as the Spirit loved to do through His lovers. All the ages call her blessed, as the Spirit inspired her to say!

By revealing Mary, God can draw more people to Himself, because we will seek her intercession and delight in His magnificence as is made visible in Mary’s life and virtues.

The saints hide to not attract attention to themselves, but God reveals them because sometimes He can attract more attention to Himself through them, and also because He simply loves His faithful servants so much that He wants everyone to know how much He favors them, at times!
 
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