Need help with arguments against living together

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FanofB16

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Hi,

Some of my non-Catholic friends live with their boyfriends and have bought houses together. Clearly, there is also the clear inference that they are having sexual relations.

Of course, they all say there is nothing wrong with this. Where is the harm in two people who love each other living together? Who are you to judge this is wrong? It’s not hurting anything - how could it be possibly be wrong? Society has moved on and so should you etc.

Can you please help me with reasons why this is gravely sinful?

Also, how do I counter the argument with people who are living together but not having sexual relations?

FanOfPopeBenedict
 
Start with every verse in the Bible that talks about Fornication. If they are non-Christian, then, go to some secular sources like the study from one secular university (maybe Rutgers) called “The Marriage Project”. My inet is not letting me open a second window, but, you can google it.
 
My father was not religious but he believed in marriage and did not believe people should live together…His saying was “Why buy the cow when you get the milk for free”…🙂
 
How about—this is none of your business:mad:
You’re a grown individual and can make your own choices, so tell them to keep their noses out of your business. Remind them that tolerance is a too way street, you’ll tolerate them sleeping around if they tolerate you keeping your faith.
 
If they are living together yet not having sexual relations, it’s a matter of sharing the overhead, nothing more, it’s not a real relationship outside of friendship and there is nothing wrong with that.

If they are having relations, they obviously are committed to each other, why are they afraid of putting it into a contract as in the vows they will make at a wedding? The reason they don’t want that contract is because they don’t believe they will remain together for the rest of their lives, that somehow, they think there still is someone else that will be better for them, which in itself undermines the relationship, it also gives them an easy way to split up, since there is no contract binding them together, so when times become tough, instead of working it out, they will move on, which nullifies what ever bond they currently have.
 
FanofB16 said:
Hi,

Some of my non-Catholic friends live with their boyfriends and have bought houses together. Clearly, there is also the clear inference that they are having sexual relations.

Of course, they all say there is nothing wrong with this. Where is the harm in two people who love each other living together? Who are you to judge this is wrong? It’s not hurting anything - how could it be possibly be wrong? Society has moved on and so should you etc.

Can you please help me with reasons why this is gravely sinful?

Also, how do I counter the argument with people who are living together but not having sexual relations?

FanOfPopeBenedict
Click to expand...
You could tell them it isn’t who you are. You’re a practicing Catholic who believes in the Sacrament of Matrimony which you want, and you want to start your relationship with your future husband with vows and then buy the house and have the family.

Your family is also Catholic who believe in the same and you can’t even imagine disappointing them. Actually, it is a moot point because you have no thought of living with any man before marriage. Having sex before marriage is a sin for Catholics. Can’t do it because in a continuing sexual relationship there is no chance for me to confess if the sin is already planned on being repeated. And as far as hurting, it would be hurting my dignity which I plan to keep. And by doing so I would be leading another, the man, into sin too.

Since Eden there’s been fornication and adultery. It isn’t something I can do nor do I want to do it. It would be like asking me to bungee jump or eat blow fish. It is not for me.

Or go with the PP comment re. cows. Says it all.
 
IMHO, you don’t even really need to use religion to argue your point as the cow/milk saying clearly illustrates. Or maybe you want to live alone for a while and learn to live with yourself before sharing with another. Besides, if you are already living together, it makes putting off marriage easier for both parties and that not a pleasant side-effect even in the secular world.
 
I don’t advocate living together unless married. It goes with how the relationship “looks.” People are going to think they know what’s going on. So, when one person in the relationship says anything against sex before marriage is wrong, what moral grounds do they have to stand on?

On a more personal note, my daughter is living with her boyfriend in a three bedroom apartment. They are currently sharing expenses in order to save for their wedding next summer. I don’t like it, but I do understand the reasoning behind it.
 
FanofB16 said:
Hi,

Some of my non-Catholic friends live with their boyfriends and have bought houses together. Clearly, there is also the clear inference that they are having sexual relations.

Of course, they all say there is nothing wrong with this. Where is the harm in two people who love each other living together? Who are you to judge this is wrong? It’s not hurting anything - how could it be possibly be wrong? Society has moved on and so should you etc.

Can you please help me with reasons why this is gravely sinful?

I hateeee when people say society!!! That gets on my nerves so much. So, because of the year , that means our morals and values have to change , or because society has moved on??
Also, how do I counter the argument with people who are living together but not having sexual relations?

FanOfPopeBenedict
Click to expand...
I hateeee when people say society!!! That gets on my nerves so much. So, because of the year , that means our morals and values have to change , or because society has moved on??
 
Dear FAN of B16,
I think that there is a very good and compelling reason why a man and a woman, who are not married should not be having a sexual relationship.I am talking about sharing the same bed!I personally at one time, shared a house with two women and a guy–this was a strickly economic arrangement-separate bed rooms,lockable bathroom arrangement etc.I also know of a couple of catholics in irregular marriages, who are living in the same house but are not sharing the same bedroom.So I presume you are refering to single or divorced people "shacking-up"together and living as if they were married"living in sin"as the saying goes.These are the ones I am talking about.
What happens in this situation and even applies to those generally who are having sex outside of marriage .Both partners are saying to each other "I am not entitled to have sex with you ,as we are not married,but go ahead anyway"This leads to a habit of immoral behaviour, where the woman and the man are teaching each other that it is okay to have something that they are not entitled to.The relationship may last a while and they find that they really want to spend their life together as man and wife.So they get married,what happens is that often,the husband might have to deny his sexual activity because the wife might be almost ready to give birth or has just given birth or sick etc.As he has not learnt to control his sexual urges before marriage, he might start a sexual relationship with some other woman.If his wife "finds"out the marriage is in trouble,but the wife is partly to blame, as it was she who taught her now husband that it was okay to have sex ,to which he was not entitled to.The same applies if it was the wife that strayed,the husband might be too busy- a work maniac for example,where he is never there to give his wife the emotional and physical attention(kisses & cuddles & sexual needs) ;she might find this need elswhere,if the angry husband finds out-all hell can break loose–but he has himself to blame, as it was he who taught her that it was okay to have sex the she was not entitled to, outside of a marriage union.
I do hope that this arguement might be a good one to use, as we are creatures of habit and act out what we have been taught.This is not even a moral one but more of a pastoral arguement.Never the less,we are all familiar with the results and the victims are the children who are sometimes scared for life because of “living in sin”!
May Jesus,Mary & Joseph,help all families.
 
FanofB16 said:
Hi,

Some of my non-Catholic friends live with their boyfriends and have bought houses together. Clearly, there is also the clear inference that they are having sexual relations.

Of course, they all say there is nothing wrong with this. Where is the harm in two people who love each other living together? Who are you to judge this is wrong? It’s not hurting anything - how could it be possibly be wrong? Society has moved on and so should you etc.

Can you please help me with reasons why this is gravely sinful?

Also, how do I counter the argument with people who are living together but not having sexual relations?

FanOfPopeBenedict
Click to expand...
I don’t believe you should let anything anyone says influence your decision on what you do with your life. If you are a Son of God then you should be able to make your own decision. Society has moved on indeed, but look at where it’s gotten us? We are de-evolving from what the Creator has intended. Nature itself naturally strives for a higher degree of conciousness and man offers the greatest potential for accomplishing this. Listen to your heart and your intuition when it comes to making any decision. Examine your guilt if you have any because if you feel guilt then that is your sprtit’s way of saying that you have offended something that is bigger than you. Also, sex is sanctified in marriage. Plants and animals have more control over their sexual desires these days than your typical human being. Animals do not enter the Kingdom of God. Men and Women enter the Kingdom of God. Animals deserved to be controlled and Men deserve to be free. What part in the Kingdom does a man who conducts himself as an animal have? None. He will be “thrown in the fire” with the rest of the sheeple who can not control their animal instincts. Accept the part of the uncreated God that dwells inside you and live by it and you will be surprised by the ammount of Truth and Divine Wisdom that shows up everyday.
 
“We are de-evolving from what the Creator has intended. Nature itself naturally strives for a higher degree of conciousness and man offers the greatest potential for accomplishing this. Listen to your heart and your intuition when it comes to making any decision.”(quote be Aarontassin.
You have made a good point Aarontassin ,as it is very hard to convince people who have no religeous background to accept a moral truth;but it is written in their hearts.They are like a couple who decide that they want to play the game of Golf.They practise on their own and think that they are going it correctly( read-living together),however they had never read the rules.So if they decide to enter a competition ( in real life-read society) they will mess things up and will be disqualified.(bitterness,violence & fighting over the spoils-material & children)
However as you mentioned,people can "listen to your heart"what is the right thing to do.Even in most primitive pagan societies,there were unwritten customs regarding taking of a wife or wives and a lot had a sense of perminance about them(say for instance in parts of India that if the man died,the wife was burnt alive with the dead husband!!The ladies always have the best deal!!Horrible,but true and the reasoning being that they were tied in a permanent bond.In a sense it was the very glue that held their tribe or society together.Marriage is what holds society together.
You and I as Catholics, believe that what they are doing by living together is morally wrong and a mortal sin.But this would not cut any ice with them and they would not understand.You can give natural reasons to them but the truth of the reality of God has to be awakened in them.In a sense what these couples really need is the shinning examples of good,holy and happy Catholic married couples-living the sacrament, open to life, generously bring children into this world.The example of this will be the best arguement to convince the un-churched what they are missing out on by not following God’s Rules.
May The Holy Family and other great saintly married people(St Elizabeth of Hungary,Bl.Martin & Zellie Martin-the "Little flowers’parents) help all Catholic Married couples to be that beacon of light for our society.
 
Further to my comments about the need of good,happy holy marriages here is what Pope Paul VI said in 1975–“modern man listens less willingly to teachers than to witnesses,and if he does listen to teachers it is only because they are witnesses” also “You are the Gospel in how you act and how you live” It reminds me of what St.Francis said to his friars"Go out and preach the Gospel,use words if necessary’!!! So the person who asked for arguements to convince her friends to stop living together in sin,sort of has been given a challenge(and it applies to us all)
Another arguement is to show the example of saintly married men and women and what they achieved by the marriage.Bl.Louis & Zellie Martin are such heroes.If they had not married , we would not have .St.Therese of the Child Jesus.“Little Flower”
“.St.Gianna Molla is another great example of a married Doctor who sacrificed her life in order to bring her child into this world.
In Deus Est (God is Love),the Holy Father Benedict is showing us the Church’s view of love and sexuallity is the only way to find true joy and love in Christian living;the old song went 'Love and marriage goes together like a horse and carriage”-sort of corny but those were the values in society -the media has moved us on,but not to a better place.
Jesus,Mary And Joseph,pray for us.
 
I really needed to hear that in my current situation. That’s my new favorite quote. “Go and preach the gospel and use words if necessary.” Genius. As for marriage… Didn’t Jesus say something about NEVER taking an oath under any circumstance? He also said that the men and women of this age marry and are given in marriage and those will not be worthy of His kingdom. However, I don’t think He was condeming a man for taking a wife, but He was condeming how the people practice the traditional pagan wedding ceremonies. You typically go to a courthouse, sign a contract, and pay the $60 fee to “Caesar.” You go to the same courthouse that practices the swearing on the Bible aka The Word of God. Something about that practice disturbs me.
Then you take the wedding oaths and swear under God and in front of men that you will do the right thing. You shouldn’t have to swear to God that you are going to treat your spouse the way you would like to be treated. Then, just like the pagans did, you symbolize the oaths taken with the wearing of a ring. Then the ceremony is sealed with the “What God has joined together, let no man separate.” Who is God? In that case if would appear that God is “The Lord of the Rings” aka Saturn, Satan, or whoever seeing that a wedding ceremony is pagan and pagans were rather Satanic. Anyone have any incite on this matter? It seems so obvious to me but I am aware that the craftyness of the devil deceives many. I may be rather deceived myself.
 
There can be no clear reasoning behind this. Living in mortal sin is tremendously scary. I can’t see how people could blatantly sin against God by committing fornication openly and happily. Our lives are so short here on Earth, eternity is forever.

How can people want to just disregard Scripture and live in defiance of God.

Hell is a long time for a few short years of sinful pleasure.

1 Corinthians 6:9; Do you not know that the unjust will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators nor idolaters nor adulterers nor boy prostitutes nor sodomites
1 Corinthians 6:10; nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor robbers will inherit the kingdom of God.

:eek:
 
The 5 year statistics are terrible. But of course it would not happen to them.🙂
 
for me living together outside marriage is not a sin, it even helps us to know the person who we will be dealing with the rest of our lives… some may say its immoral but in my own opinion (only) its not that bad after all,
 
The divorce rate statistics listed in that article are misleading- In the U.S., cohabiting couples taking premarital education courses or counseling are not at a higher risk for divorce, and if cohabitation is limited to a person’s future spouse, there is no elevated risk of divorce.
 
dashso40 said:
My father was not religious but he believed in marriage and did not believe people should live together…His saying was “Why buy the cow when you get the milk for free”…🙂
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Isn’t your father using this saying backwards? I think buying the cow is being compared to marriage and the free milk is casual sex. Am I wrong?
 
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