Need some advice regarding interaction with homosexual neighbors

[juliamajor]

**Some are better at their gifts than others…they know all the answers. Thinking for oneself is not allowed and disagreement is a sin itself. Reaching out to sinners is not a good idea, because “their” sin is much greater than anything we could ever do. They are doomed, so let’s faghettaboutem. **

They shall know us by our ostrachization of them.

Yeah, its sounds silly when you put it that way, now doesn’t it.

Lord I love North Carolinians! Short and to the point .AMEN!

 

[Dale_M]

First of all, I want to make it very, very clear that never once in any of my posts did I use the word “bigot” or “homophobe” (nor “hydpocrite”, but I’m assuming that was a typo )

Since I did use the word ‘bigot’ in a previous post, I want to be clear that I was calling no one by that name. Rather, it is a stereotype of Christians which is held by many homosexuals.

My point is that we have to overcome that stereotype if we are to evangelize. The actions suggested by some here does little good, and does actual harm. We need to reach out to sinners, not push them away.

 

[SpiritMeadow]

This is nothing more than ad hominem speculation and does nothing to answer my reasoning regarding the hypothetical “love” shared by those with same-sex attraction. This is more avoidance than reply.

You are correct, it was ill advised of me to speculate why you harbor such hatred. You have no reasoning whatsoever as far as i can see. You cannot simply assert that ss couples do not love because you perceive their physical relationship “loveless” by your own personal definition.

Well, which is it? Are such tactics demonstrably ineffective or do you assume that they are? Can you submit here a proof that demonstrates the inefficacy of such tactics or are we meant to merely put our faith in the fallacy of argumentum ad populum because, as you say, this is what “most anyone would assume”?

Well apparently they are no self-evident to you. Let me ask you this: Should a fundie stranger walk up to you walking from Mass one day, and tell you that you were the Whore of Babylon and headed for hell unless you repented and were born again, would you be inclined to think they had anything worthwhile to tell you? Treating people with disrepect by claiming you cannot conduct normal social intercourse because it would condoning the sin is I promise you, met with the same repugnance. Nothing you say is heard, therefore I question why the method is used. You directly reduce those who can be reached and turned from their sin. That would not seem what you desire? or is it?

Admittedly, Jesus was the champion of the rejected, humiliated and the religious outcasts of His day. It is important to recognize that He did not take up their cause at the expense of calling such people to account for their sins.

Funny, I don’t remember him ever doing that. He seldom talked of anyone’s sin at all, and certainly never attacked them as sinful. He asked people to repent of sin in general and sin no more. You cannot I hope see Jesus acting as you would can you?

 

[SpiritMeadow]

They are NOT the same.

You are quite right…and i don’t think the Church uses the term “hate” in any case.

 

[SpiritMeadow]

1. Please provide documentation for the “treat them as an excommunicate” statement.
2. Yes, there are harsh consequences that result from grave sin. Consequences that GOD chooses, and will provide.
3. You’re suggesting that large-scale ostracizing of homosexuals will be an effective evangelization tool? That by being utterly ignored they’ll see how far from Grace they’ve fallen? Thank the Good Lord above He didn’t take this route. Thank God He didn’t pull the “you’ve sinned, now I’m going to ignore you” card. And thank God He doesn’t call us to do the same.

“If any man say, I love God, and hateth his brother; he is a liar. For he that loveth not his brother, whom he seeth, how can he love God, whom he seeth not?” 1 John 4:20 (D-R)

Love is an ACTION. It is not a feeling. It is an action. If love in action includes shunning sinners rather than sharing Christ’s Gospel with them, then it is truly a world gone mad.

Amen. I struggle with the concept of avoiding whole groups because our “lifestyles” are incompatible. No one is talking about being the closest of friends, but goodness, even homosexuals have hobbies, the same as you, may love fine wine, the same as you, or corny sci-fi movies. We are indeed in trouble in this world if we still are missing the notion that it is what we share that is important. To the degree we are different, we learn things, we uplift and help those suffering, even from lack of knowledge, but we embrace our shared creatureship. It is in that strength that truth emerges and we each learn. Surely that is what God calls us to.

 

[ethant]

Same-gender monogamous relationships should be celebrated for the couple being together, not shunned and degraded as lesser on so many levels.

You’re Catholic?

 

[NewUlm1976_2000]

You’re Catholic?

Yep, cradle Catholic.

 

[rpp]

That is a very uncharitable thing to say.

Kathy

Originally Posted by rpp
Treat them as if they were a man and woman shacking up. You would not want them alone with your children,… .

You are the only one claiming pedophilia. Why do you put words into my7 mouth? And how does the comparison to an unmarried co-habitating couple equate to pedophilia? It doesn’t.

I was referring to the deleterious moral influence of those who sin publicly.

He you are the one who need to get a clue. You are the ones being uncharitable here. You are the one engaging in name-calling. And the clue you are looking for is in my signature line.

 

[Other_Eric]

NewUlm1976_2000;3189401:

Same-gender monogamous relationships should be celebrated for the couple being together, not shunned and degraded as lesser on so many levels.

You’re Catholic?

Look, one can’t go about casting aspersions on the religion of someone one happens to disagree with. I am comfortable affirming that NewUlm1976_2000 is Catholic. I am also comfortable in saying that he is quite wrong as regards this particular issue.

 

[ethant]

Look, one can’t go about casting aspersions on the religion of someone one happens to disagree with. I am comfortable affirming that NewUlm1976_2000 is Catholic. I am also comfortable in saying that he is quite wrong as regards this particular issue.

Please…spare me. I asked him if he was Catholic. By his previous comments, do you think that was out of line? You say I “happen to disagree with” this person as if we’re discussing our favorite sports team here.

Tell me, what is ambiguous with the position of the Church regarding homosexual behavior? New Ulm isn’t illiterate. It’s plain disobedience and it’s a problem in the Catholic Church. When you speak as a Catholic in defense of homosexual BEHAVIOR, who is casting aspersions…?

 

[Riley259]

I’d be careful about intensifying the relationship. In my experience, homosexual couples tend to have more “issues” going on. I think each of us should be willing to drop friends who may lead us astray, and that may become an issue.

I’d agree with this assessment. An openly gay man that I work with and have a decent working and personal relationship with has been slowly trying to solicit my endorsement of the gay lifestyle while at the same time trying to invite me more into his inner social circle. In reponse to this, I’ve been carefully walking a thin line by staying friendly but within professional boundaries. He gradually has come to respect those boundaries that I purposely created but others in our professional circle have not been as careful and as a result have gotten “sucked into” his subtle propaganda of the virtue of the gay lifestyle. You do need to be careful in these situations.

 

[Other_Eric]

Please…spare me. I asked him if he was Catholic. By his previous comments, do you think that was out of line? You say I “happen to disagree with” this person as if we’re discussing our favorite sports team here.

Tell me, what is ambiguous with the position of the Church regarding homosexual behavior? New Ulm isn’t illiterate. It’s plain disobedience and it’s a problem in the Catholic Church. When you speak as a Catholic in defense of homosexual BEHAVIOR, who is casting aspersions…?

His profile says he is Catholic. His defense of homosexual behavior or other failures to submit his intellect to the Magisterium are not more powerful than baptismal grace. Therefore I can comfortably affirm he is Catholic, if, perhaps, not a very good one.

 

[ethant]

His profile says he is Catholic. His defense of homosexual behavior or other failures to submit his intellect to the Magisterium are not more powerful than baptismal grace. Therefore I can comfortably affirm he is Catholic, if, perhaps, not a very good one.

Very well. Let me say that I don’t mean to come across as some “fundamentalist” Catholic looking to beat people over the head with the CCC, but my original comment was to get him to acknowlege the fact his position contradicts his religious identity.

I haven’t been a very faithful Catholic most of my life although I’m also a cradle Catholic. I was Catholic in name only and looking back I can see how my lifestyle could have and probably did create scandal.

Concerning the OP, I have homosexual friends, have employed homosexuals, and have homosexual relatives and I treat them all with respect. But, I will never condone the behavior. Like someone else has already mentioned, my position is to love these people but from a certain distance. I don’t need to continually tell them my position, as a proclaimed Catholic, that **should **be understood. I also don’t have an obligation to bring them in to my inner circle, the same as any other situation where “good people” are openly sinning.

 

[Newbie2]

This thread is starting sound like a bunch of politicians; defending or criticizing their or other’s “Catholicness”.

The OP’s point/question seemed to ask whether we should embrace our homosexual neighbors or avoid them. There have been some very good posts about the quandry of evangelizing to those who are in need of evangelizaton (homosexual neighbors) while not being heavy-handed on one hand (no pun intended) and ignoring our call to evangelization on the other (“shunning”).

 

[SpiritMeadow]

I’d agree with this assessment. An openly gay man that I work with and have a decent working and personal relationship with has been slowly trying to solicit my endorsement of the gay lifestyle while at the same time trying to invite me more into his inner social circle. In reponse to this, I’ve been carefully walking a thin line by staying friendly but within professional boundaries. He gradually has come to respect those boundaries that I purposely created but others in our professional circle have not been as careful and as a result have gotten “sucked into” his subtle propaganda of the virtue of the gay lifestyle. You do need to be careful in these situations.

This is really interesting. I’ve known gays all my adult life and worked with several dozen over the years. I’ve worked with them, dined with them, partied with them, visited with them, attended social functions of one sort or another, government functions, etc. I guess I’ve been in their “lifestyle circle of friends.” I never once was propositioned or invited to share in the lifestyle. Most homosexuals I have found don’t believe one can choose to become one, rather it is something one is born as. So they would see no purpose in attempting to recruit new homosexuals. I can say that my many straight male friends never remarked of any such recruitment either. I am puzzled by your experience to say the least. Perhaps it was someone who was simply overly open minded about sex?

 

[SpiritMeadow]

His profile says he is Catholic. His defense of homosexual behavior or other failures to submit his intellect to the Magisterium are not more powerful than baptismal grace. Therefore I can comfortably affirm he is Catholic, if, perhaps, not a very good one.

You really think it’s appropriate to judge someone like that? I cannot express in words how profoundly sad I find that. You are in NO position to make any judgment of another like that. Only God may.

 

[Other_Eric]

You really think it’s appropriate to judge someone like that? I cannot express in words how profoundly sad I find that. You are in NO position to make any judgment of another like that. Only God may.

We are here discussing the proper way in which to handle neighbors who have same-sex attraction and make publicly manifest their decision to act upon them. Involved in that discussion is the morality involved in same-sex sexual activity. On that point, the Church is unambiguously clear about the nature of such acts. To point out that the failure to submit to this teaching might very well be found in a less than serious practitioner of the Catholic faith is not judgment; it’s pointing out the obvious.

 

[Riley259]

This is really interesting. I’ve known gays all my adult life and worked with several dozen over the years. I’ve worked with them, dined with them, partied with them, visited with them, attended social functions of one sort or another, government functions, etc. I guess I’ve been in their “lifestyle circle of friends.” I never once was propositioned or invited to share in the lifestyle. Most homosexuals I have found don’t believe one can choose to become one, rather it is something one is born as. So they would see no purpose in attempting to recruit new homosexuals. I can say that my many straight male friends never remarked of any such recruitment either. I am puzzled by your experience to say the least. Perhaps it was someone who was simply overly open minded about sex?

When I referred to “endorsement” of the gay lifestyle I did not mean that this individual was trying to seduce me or “convert” me. I just meant that once he’s was comfortable and friendly with me, he increasingly became bolder at touting the lifestyle as “normal” and an intrinsic right and bashing or ridiculing those who felt differently. I apologize for any confusion on that point.

 

[dixieagle]

This is a very topical and complicated issue and one that I’ve encountered often. I worked for years for a ballet company with a gay director and numerous gay guest artists, and I still often volunteer. Most of those on staff are Catholic or devout evangelicals. It has never occurred to any of us to treat gay people with anything less than simple Christian kindness and charity, while praying for them constantly. We have seen a real growth in curiosity about Christianity on the part of at least one of the gay men we know; only God knows what is in his heart. I can’t imagine that we would have observed this curiosity if we had treated him as a pariah.

We are all sinners; if we limit those people with whom we deign to interact to those who pass OUR moral litmus tests, we will likely be very lonely people. I would also hate to think that God might treat us in the same manner as we have treated those we regard as great sinners! Jesus won over grave sinners with his love, and we are called to do no less.

For purposes of transparency, I am of the opinion that homosexual orientation is biological in origin, not a choice. Homosexual activity, however, is a choice. Given that, I can’t help but feel that God understands the struggle and looks with compassion on those afflicted with this disorder and the strong inclinations accompanying it.

One general observation here; it has been said that the things we hate and protest most loudly in other people are often the things we hate most about ourselves. This always comes to mind when I see people exhibiting profound animosity and hatred towards homosexuals. Food for thought.

 

[a_cermak]

Another consideration is that in surveys with young people, the Barna group found that treating homosexuality as a mega-sin (more of a sin than all others) was turning them off from Christianity. And these were people who had at minimum of 6 months exposure to Christianity, so not people who were simply getting the media’s take on Christianity. So if you openly treat gay folk as the Other that should be avoided, you could actually create a stumbling block for observers.