Need some advice regarding interaction with homosexual neighbors

[sodak]

And I get terribly annoyed when some seem to “just can’t wait” to tell others about their sin and expect others to accept their sin as good. Seems scandalous to me.

I agree. There should be a middle ground here, but what I’m seeing from my personal experience is the homosexual community is getting very aggressive and trying to force acceptance rather than tolerance. That’s where I draw the line. If it limits my circle of friends, so be it.

 

[iamrefreshed]

Excellent point in this article regarding following church teachings. Just scroll down the page a bit.

firstthings.com/onthesquare/

“Each of us needs to follow our own conscience. But conscience doesn’t emerge from a vacuum. It’s not a matter or personal opinion or preference. If our conscience has the habit of telling us what we want to hear on difficult issues, then it’s probably badly formed. A healthy conscience is the voice of God’s truth in our hearts, and it should usually make us uncomfortable, because none of us is yet a saint. The way we get a healthy conscience is by submitting it and shaping it to God’s will; and the way we find God’s will is by conforming our lives to the counsel and guidance of the Church that Jesus left us. If we find ourselves disagreeing as Catholics with the teaching of the Church on a serious matter, it’s probably not the Church that’s wrong. The problem is much more likely with us”.

 

[Feedmysheep]

You know, this is one of the reasons I fell in love with Holy Mother Church. Outsiders paint Her as some stifling, radically conservative dictator, yet She isn’t.

As seen from the Catechism, we are not called to shun homosexuals, which would represent one end of the spectrum seen here. And we are clearly not called to accept their sinfulness (no matter how monogamous, long-lasting, or seemingly loving it appears), as others have espoused. We are called to stand firm in our condemnation of the acts, while extending the hand of Christian love to the people.

And, as the Church is not the maniacal puppet master some would paint Her to be, neither does She outline, word by word, exactly HOW we should act around practicing homosexuals. She respects each person’s ability to discern based on a well formed Christian conscious.

All in all, it is a more demanding religious system than one that would simply tell us what to do.

 

[StratusRose]

This is a very interesting thread, and it hits close to home.

My husband and I have become friendly with 2 men who live on our road. We assume they are homosexual because upon them giving a tour of their house, we noticed there is one bedroom and one bed. However, they have never come out and told us.

When we visit with them we talk about history and home improvement. What’s the connection, you ask? These 2 men bought an 18th century home and have renovated it from top to bottom. No one knows more about home improvement than these guys do. So my husband likes to ask them for advice since we also are renovating our house. (We’re 80% done, yay!)

I asked my husband the same question the OP is asking. Do we seem like we are condoning their sin because we are friendly with them? I’ve thought long and hard about and came to the conclusion that if the subject were to come up then we would explain that we are Catholic and we believe that homosexuality is a sin. I am not willing to sugarcoat or undermine my beliefs to keep up a friendly relationship with neighbors. Perhaps they would inquire more about the faith if it came up. If I decided to never talk to them under the ASSUMPTION that they were gay, then they may never know what the church really teaches on the subject.

My husband and I pray for them and their conversion.

 

[ethant]

I don’t know about anyone else, but I have only so many people in my life that I can spend time with. I don’t feel that I have enough time to spend with my own children, let alone neighbors. I don’t shun people, but I do choose who I spend precious time with. I will help anyone who asks and I know how to be friendly. Common courtesy isn’t what I call heroic virtue.

The culture is quickly becoming more and more unfriendly to faithful Catholics. To be true to our faith, we are going to be perceived as bigots and hateful, intolerant, close minded jerks. I will not deny my faith to appear to be a “loving” person. Supporting someone in their sin isn’t loving anyway. By the way, I don’t choose what sin is, I’ll submit to the authority of the Catholic Church. Everytime.

 

[SpiritMeadow]

And I get terribly annoyed when some seem to “just can’t wait” to tell others about their sin and expect others to accept their sin as good. Seems scandalous to me.

I’m not sure I understand you. You object to those who cant wait to tell others about their sin and expect others to accept their sin as good? I’m lost. I was commenting on those who are at pains not to confirm sin. Why are these people asking the homosexual to accept their sin? what is their sin? Why is it good?

Are you trying to say that you are tired of people who try to get people to accept sin as good? Well I’m not sure if that is what you mean, but if so…I don’t see anyone doing that at all. I see for the large part of the posters that they simply don’t see a reason to treat homosexual neighbors a bit differently than any other neighbor. That is not condoning anything, any more than if another neighbor who is straight and you share a beer over the fence with from time to time turns out to be a bank robber.

It’s just the common courtesy of treating everyone as Jesus said we should, like we would like to be treated. Decently, you know.

 

[Christine_Blake]

Dear Catholic Answers… First of all, I’d like to ask forgiveness for my obvious ignorance regarding the circumstances I’m about to describe; And that I do not intend… in any way, to be offensive. But I felt that I would be able to receive compassionate and honest advice here.

Our new neighbors, who live a couple doors down… are two very friendly, likeable and polite young men; They are openly gay (referring to each other as “partner”). I immediately took a liking to them both, and feel that they will be wonderful, considerate and caring neighbors.

The Catechism of the Catholic Faith… states the following… “They (homosexual persons) must be accepted with respect, compassion, and sensitivity. Every sign of unjust discrimination in their regard should be avoided.” (2358)

Now, while I certainly have no intent of treating my new neighbors with anything other than Christian Charity… I’d like to know how to do so… WITHOUT appearing to approve of their lifestyle. We are already on a first name basis. And I fear that over-familiarity might be misinterpreted as approval of the homosexual lifestyle. But, at the same time… I certainly do not want to shun my neighbors.

I’ve never been in these particular circumstances… and I want to proceed, as a Roman Catholic Christian. Thank you in advance for your consideration of my question.

Just a thought…wouldn’t any neighbors who moved in be sinners? I would treat them like every other neighbor…who knows on the other side you may have an adulterer or a thief …And I agree with the person who reminded us that Jesus dined with Pharasees, He also dined with sinners - However, don’t feel pressured to be friends, but don’t fear being friendly…Either way, it is through Love that Jesus changes hearts, not condemnation…

 

[SpiritMeadow]

I don’t know about anyone else, but I have only so many people in my life that I can spend time with. I don’t feel that I have enough time to spend with my own children, let alone neighbors. I don’t shun people, but I do choose who I spend precious time with. I will help anyone who asks and I know how to be friendly. Common courtesy isn’t what I call heroic virtue.

The culture is quickly becoming more and more unfriendly to faithful Catholics. To be true to our faith, we are going to be perceived as bigots and hateful, intolerant, close minded jerks. I will not deny my faith to appear to be a “loving” person. Supporting someone in their sin isn’t loving anyway. By the way, I don’t choose what sin is, I’ll submit to the authority of the Catholic Church. Everytime.

Does it suggest anything to you that you portray “faithful” Catholics as being perceived as “bigots, hateful, intolerant, closed minded jerks”? I think it should. Also I might think about martyrdom? Thoughtful statements you made…Very good to begin to think rather more deeply I think.

 

[ethant]

Does it suggest anything to you that you portray “faithful” Catholics as being perceived as “bigots, hateful, intolerant, closed minded jerks”? I think it should. Also I might think about martyrdom? Thoughtful statements you made…Very good to begin to think rather more deeply I think.

huh? I really have no idea what you just said.

 

[StBenMom]

Treat them as if they were a man and woman shacking up. You would not want them alone with your children, you can invite them to Mass, you should not invite them over for meals or accept an invitation to join them.

That’s a little harsh, isn’t it??? After all, Jesus didn’t have dinner or preach to the righteous. He prefered the tax collectors and sinners. I do agree that an invitation to Mass would be a nice gesture. Maybe invite them to a parish function or two. Our parish is always having auctions, movie nights, spaghetti feeds, etc. Plenty of “casual” gatherings to get their feet wet.

 

[blessedtoo]

This is a very interesting thread, and it hits close to home.

My husband and I have become friendly with 2 men who live on our road. We assume they are homosexual because upon them giving a tour of their house, we noticed there is one bedroom and one bed. However, they have never come out and told us.

When we visit with them we talk about history and home improvement. What’s the connection, you ask? These 2 men bought an 18th century home and have renovated it from top to bottom. No one knows more about home improvement than these guys do. So my husband likes to ask them for advice since we also are renovating our house. (We’re 80% done, yay!)

I asked my husband the same question the OP is asking. Do we seem like we are condoning their sin because we are friendly with them? I’ve thought long and hard about and came to the conclusion that if the subject were to come up then we would explain that we are Catholic and we believe that homosexuality is a sin. I am not willing to sugarcoat or undermine my beliefs to keep up a friendly relationship with neighbors. Perhaps they would inquire more about the faith if it came up. If I decided to never talk to them under the ASSUMPTION that they were gay, then they may never know what the church really teaches on the subject.

My husband and I pray for them and their conversion.

Stratus, this is a great story. But I think the difference between what you have described with your neighbors and the OP’s experience is that her neighbors have already “come out” to her as “partners”. In that respect, they are announcing their lifestyle and behavior boldly and making a statement. This could have provided an opportunity for the OP to state her beliefs and maybe she did. In any case, any friendship that would proceed from that point might prove difficult as friends generally discuss personal matters and include details of their lives. This can be uncomfortable for the Catholic because we are put in the position of either restating our positions over and over or feeling uncomfortable and conflicted.

I would not assume that anyone is homosexual, regardless of appearances. You are wise to avoid the tempation to do this. However, many here would have us believe that even homosexuals who are demonstrative, vocal, outspoken and honest about their lifestyles still should be assumed without sin. While we can’t know the heart of another, we can know their behavior to be sinful, especially when they proclaim it publicly.

“Shunning” and “ignoring” were not suggested by posters here. However, the deeper one gets into relationships with unrepetent sinners, the more complicated it gets to stay true to one’s beliefs. You may find yourself compromising your commitment to truth.

 

[StratusRose]

“Shunning” and “ignoring” were not suggested by posters here. However, the deeper one gets into relationships with unrepetent sinners, the more complicated it gets to stay true to one’s beliefs. You may find yourself compromising your commitment to truth.

See post #60.

 

[ethant]

Does it suggest anything to you that you portray “faithful” Catholics as being perceived as “bigots, hateful, intolerant, closed minded jerks”? I think it should. Also I might think about martyrdom? Thoughtful statements you made…Very good to begin to think rather more deeply I think.

Sometimes it can be hard to focus entirely on what I’m reading, especially with a 2 and 4 yr old begging for attention. Now that I’ve reread your post, I believe I get the meaning. Sorry, I am a bit slow sometimes on the uptake.

Of course it suggests something to me that faithful Catholics will be perceived negatively by a large portion of society, otherwise I wouldn’t have said it. And thanks for reminding me, martyrdom in a sense, is our calling. Not blood martyrdom necessarily, but when a person gives up their social status by not compromising their beliefs, by not floating downstream like a dead body (got that from Father Corapi), then it is martyrdom in a sense.

Perhaps you should think more deeply about what I said. You don’t seem to understand what the concern is as a Catholic with a family. Society is demanding that sin be accepted and embraced. That is a problem my friend. I can’t just throw up my hands and say “oh well, since most of society thinks it’s good, even though the Church says otherwise, I’ll just fall in line. Just be “nice” and nobody will get hurt. I’ll be a closet Catholic.”

I’ll be nice - in a genuine way, by the grace of God.

 

[fix]

Of course it suggests something to me that faithful Catholics will be perceived negatively by a large portion of society, otherwise I wouldn’t have said it. And thanks for reminding me, martyrdom in a sense, is our calling. Not blood martyrdom necessarily, but when a person gives up their social status by not compromising their beliefs, by not floating downstream like a dead body (got that from Father Corapi), then it is martyrdom in a sense.

Perhaps you should think more deeply about what I said. You don’t seem to understand what the concern is as a Catholic with a family. Society is demanding that sin be accepted and embraced. That is a problem my friend. I can’t just throw up my hands and say “oh well, since most of society thinks it’s good, even though the Church says otherwise, I’ll just fall in line. Just be “nice” and nobody will get hurt. I’ll be a closet Catholic.”

I’ll be nice - in a genuine way, by the grace of God.

Bravo.

 

[SpiritMeadow]

huh? I really have no idea what you just said.

Sadly I didn’t think you would.

 

[SpiritMeadow]

Sometimes it can be hard to focus entirely on what I’m reading, especially with a 2 and 4 yr old begging for attention. Now that I’ve reread your post, I believe I get the meaning. Sorry, I am a bit slow sometimes on the uptake.

Of course it suggests something to me that faithful Catholics will be perceived negatively by a large portion of society, otherwise I wouldn’t have said it. And thanks for reminding me, martyrdom in a sense, is our calling.

LOL…that was definitely not the message I sent.I was hoping you might glean that there might be something wrong with your method. I see you cannot see that.

Perhaps you should think more deeply about what I said. You don’t seem to understand what the concern is as a Catholic with a family. Society is demanding that sin be accepted and embraced. That is a problem my friend. I can’t just throw up my hands and say “oh well, since most of society thinks it’s good, even though the Church says otherwise, I’ll just fall in line. Just be “nice” and nobody will get hurt. I’ll be a closet Catholic.”

I’ll be nice - in a genuine way, by the grace of God.

I have no idea what you think of as a genuine way. A genuine person is genuinely nice, not a pretense of friendliness masking a dislike or feeling of repulsion. It would be genuine to say, I find your lifestyle so disgusting I am unable to even be casual friends and don’t want my children exposed to you. That would be genuine and honest. Being superficially nice but then refusing any neighborly invitations is not genuine. Actually most gays I would think might prefer the honesty to the pretense. The idea that I can say hello, but not enter your house is dissembling “friendliness”.

 

[sodak]

No, there are degrees to everything, SpiritMeadow.

You don’t have to call a homosexual disgusting to get your point across. You are trying to make this an either/or, and it’s not. You can be polite, but at an arm’s length. That’s still being genuine without compromising your beliefs.

 

[ethant]

LOL…that was definitely not the message I sent.I was hoping you might glean that there might be something wrong with your method. I see you cannot see that.

I have no idea what you think of as a genuine way. A genuine person is genuinely nice, not a pretense of friendliness masking a dislike or feeling of repulsion. It would be genuine to say, I find your lifestyle so disgusting I am unable to even be casual friends and don’t want my children exposed to you. That would be genuine and honest. Being superficially nice but then refusing any neighborly invitations is not genuine. Actually most gays I would think might prefer the honesty to the pretense. The idea that I can say hello, but not enter your house is dissembling “friendliness”.

I]“So I feel pretty comfortable in saying that the evidence is weak at best on the issue of homosexuality. Weak enough that the Church shouldn’t be in the business of condemning it I don’t think. God is love, and its just not sensible to me at least that God condemns loving, supportive, uplifting, empowering relationships because the physical genitalia of the two persons matches”]

This quote is from you. It’s on your blog which you provided a link to on your signature. You publicly dissent from Church teaching. I don’t. I think it’s important that anyone following our discussion know where each of us is coming from because you are determined to show that Catholic teaching contradicts God. Sorry, you’re not that influential.

Don’t twist my words or add them to my mouth.

 

[TMC]

I still don’t understand, pages and pages into this and other threads, why homosexuality is treated so differently and meets with such emotion. Instead of comparing it to adultery and so forth, let me try a differect tack.

What if your neighbor was Hindu? Would those that would not be friends with or visit, or let their children be alone with homosexual neighbors feel the same about Hindi neighbors? Isn’t polytheism much worse than homosexuality from a salvation standpoint? Isn’t there a better chance that your kids will become interested in Vishnu than catch the gay from your neighbors? If you were to evangelize them would you begin by explaining that worshiping Brhaman has condemned them to Hell? If you would, then at least you are consisent. If you think its different, I think you have to ask why.

 

[Julian_Peters]

Thank you to all who have participated. This thread is now closed.