need some clarification

[Monica4316]

I think what really bothers me is that although I have decided that the ways God worked in my life are indeed from Him, and although that’s what I believe, I often still feel like it was a deception…I can’t seem to get rid of the feeling, so it often seems to me that I’m sinning in that way and choosing that idea. In fact, in the beginning, (when I felt it very strongly), I consented to it only because I thought God was telling me this and I wanted to follow the truth. Later I figured out that it wasn’t true and repented. Even though the sin wasn’t done with full knowledge and intent, and seems more like a mistake, I still feel very guilty about it and for thinking something so blasphemous…

 

[TheQuestioner]

I think what really bothers me is that although I have decided that the ways God worked in my life are indeed from Him, and although that’s what I believe, I often still feel like it was a deception

There’s nothing wrong with this. That feeling will go away after a while. If you want you can ask God to bring your passions (feelings) into submission to Him. Other than that, this is not a real outstanding problem. It sounds like you recognize that this feeling exists and are determined to not give into it.

…I can’t seem to get rid of the feeling, so it often seems to me that I’m sinning in that way and choosing that idea.

Don’t worry

In fact, in the beginning, (when I felt it very strongly), I consented to it only because I thought God was telling me this and I wanted to follow the truth. Later I figured out that it wasn’t true and repented. Even though the sin wasn’t done with full knowledge and intent, and seems more like a mistake, I still feel very guilty about it and for thinking something so blasphemous…

Well, if you went to confession for it already then you’re good. God knows you are sorry and forgave you. Don’t think about what happened in the past so much, you’ll drive yourself crazy. Focus on the present. As C.S. Lewis explained in the Screwtape Letters, the tempters try to keep men focusing on the past and overly preparing for the future, and thus neglect their present duty of worshiping and glorifying God.

You are God’s beloved daughter. Don’t worry, you sit upon the lap of your father.

 

[Monica4316]

It’s another day…

I feel completely rejected by God, and I still feel very strongly that I’ve done the unforgiveable sin. No matter how much I try, I can’t get back to Him. I feel like there’s something separating me from God and I can’t seem to get rid of it, and I feel like there’s something I need to repent of but am not able to. I don’t know what to do, it’s like I’m already in hell … God isn’t answering any of my prayers

 

[Student09]

Are you going to daily Mass and receiving Holy Communion daily?

 

[Monica4316]

Are you going to daily Mass and receiving Holy Communion daily?

I REALLY want to, but unfortunately I can’t, due to transportation reasons. Hopefully over the year, I would be able to go to daily Mass.

I really tried to repent of my sin this morning, and it took a lot of prayer but eventually I was able to reach out to God with more trust and I feel more peace now. I’m planning on going to Confession on Saturday and I’ll also ask the priest for advice, and i’ll ask my question about the unforgiveable sin too. I still have many questions… I’ve been going through many doubts and I can’t decide if God wants me to be Catholic or Orthodox; and I’m afraid of rejecting His true voice. I’ve been struggling with all this for around a month. However, I feel much more peace now so I’ll keep on praying

I’m thinking that the unforgiveable sin probably involves unrepentance… maybe if I’m repentant that means that I didn’t give full consent to the sin and didn’t truly (permanently) reject the Holy Spirit?

thanks; God bless!

 

[Epistemes]

I agree with baltobetsy: it’s time to see a therapist, not just a priest. Your spiritual concerns are stemming from something psychological, not spiritual. I know because I’ve been there and just recently successfully completed a tenure with my therapist. Perhaps you can find a good Catholic or simply Christian therapist in your area. I found my therapist by contacting my local Catholic Charities. Best thing I ever did. She helped me integrate into my psyche the things which my pastor had been telling me for months about myself.

Hopefully you’ll heed these messages and not just ignore them, thinking that “everything’s alright now” and it’s a stigma to see a therapist. Just like me, your concerns will return and return and your head and heart will be clouded with doubt, scruples and guilt until you come to the realization that we all need therapy. The Lord even adjures us to seek the help of doctors in our time of need: Sirach 38:1-15.

 

[Student09]

I REALLY want to, but unfortunately I can’t, due to transportation reasons. Hopefully over the year, I would be able to go to daily Mass.

Yeah, that’s difficult. Even if you could work out a situation where you are going 2 or 3 times a week in addition to Sunday Mass, I suspect that would help you tremendously. If public transportation isn’t an option, and your family won’t drive you, and the nearest church is to far to walk, you could talk to some people at your parish and see if it’s possible to get a lift from another parishioner. Maybe someone lives near you.

A couple of thoughts - could you find a church that has Mass really early in the morning (6 AM or 6:30) when nobody in your family would mind if you borrow the car? (Unless your parents have to commute early in the morning, obviously.)

Also, if your preferred parish is far away but there is a closer parish, consider attending the closer parish during the week.

I don’t know your situation and you’ve probably thought this all out, but just in case you haven’t … I’m putting it out there … daily Mass is what keeps me going and I know you would benefit if you could work out a way to go. But if not, the Lord understands.

 

[Lief_Erikson]

I really tried to repent of my sin this morning, and it took a lot of prayer but eventually I was able to reach out to God with more trust and I feel more peace now. I’m planning on going to Confession on Saturday and I’ll also ask the priest for advice, and i’ll ask my question about the unforgiveable sin too. I still have many questions… I’ve been going through many doubts and I can’t decide if God wants me to be Catholic or Orthodox; and I’m afraid of rejecting His true voice. I’ve been struggling with all this for around a month. However, I feel much more peace now so I’ll keep on praying

Remember, as your priest said to you earlier, don’t make such crucial decisions while in a state of confusion, darkness and turbulence. That is not the time to be making such decisions, and certainly not on the ground of private revelation. You should be ignoring all private revelations until this time of trial has passed. And even then, both the Orthodox and the Catholic Churches would say you should not be making such a transition because of private revelation. For if you rely on private revelation to convert from Catholicism to Orthodoxy, you will still be putting private revelation above the bishops while you are Orthodox, and if this happens again, you will follow private revelation first and the infallibility of the Church second. You will still not be relying on faith. Faith has to be your answer. Faith in God and the Church.

As your priest said, you should not make such big decisions while in a state of turbulence, uncertainty and spiritual attack. Wait until all the attacks have been gone for a month or two, and then pray for wisdom and use your reason to analyze more deeply the differences between Catholicism and Orthodoxy. Make any decisions on these matters while in a state of peace, not a state of restlessness, and make the decisions after having escaped the dangers of reliance on private revelation through faith.

I’m currently in a position where I may have to throw out a number of private revelations I felt I received from God in the past, but I will be glad to do it if I find that they truly do contradict Church teaching. I’m investigating the Church’s teaching in faith, and if she contradicts what I believed I received, I will abandon everything I believed on those matters.

Pray for faith constantly and ignore every private revelation. When the crisis ends, use your reason. Don’t analyze the spiritual or psychological experiences but reject them all through faith until you have peace. Only then should you make such decisions, and you should make them through careful research.

By the way, 99% of Protestants, and the Orthodox and Catholic Churches all agree that the unforgivable sin is final impenitence, so you have nothing to fear in this regard. This is an essentially universal Christian belief. The fact that you’re still having fears about the unforgivable sin shows that you’re relying strongly on emotional/spiritual/psychological experiences, on your feelings, and that really needs to change through prayer for faith in God and His Church and through deliberate rejection of all private revelations until the time of trial is over. And even when the time of trial ends, these experiences must never rule you, or you will find yourself always relying on a weak and unstable foundation that the apostles clearly opposed in the Scripture (Gal. 1:8).

 

[Monica4316]

Thanks for the advice!!

I think today I just realized something. It makes sense to me and I feel a lot of peace about it… I think that God allowed all this to humble me. See before, God would give me many graces, but I was (and am!) filled with so much pride. all these trials - including the ones with the blasphemous thoughts - are perhaps meant to humble me… I dont know for sure and I’ll ask my priest about that. But I feel so much closer to God just having realized that. I want to be more humble.

The only thing I’m not sure about is this… because of all that pride, could it be that my conversion to Catholicism was false? I don’t really feel this way now… but I’m still wondering if that could be the case. The Eastern writers talk about “prelest”… what if this happened to me? I sometimes received consolations from God, felt close to Him, believed He wants me to have a close relationship with Him, made the Consecration to Mary, read spiritual books, etc… I also felt like I might be called to religious life, and I wanted to offer reparation to God for sin… but now I see that even though it seems God was doing so much in my life, I also had a lot of pride. And I still have a lot of pride. I’m not sure what to think… could it be that I’ve been deceived, because of my pride, into thinking I’m meant to be Catholic, and having all those experiences with God?

I don’t understand…does God still give us graces, despite of pride?

I feel like He allowed this trial to humble me… and now that I think this way, I no longer feel like I should be Orthodox. I actually finally feel more like myself again. But I’m also questioning a lot of my past experiences… there was nothing in them to suggest they were false… they had good fruit, etc… but I also see a bit more of my pride now, and I’m afraid I was under “prelest”.

What do you think?

 

[Lief_Erikson]

God is willing to speak both to prideful people and to humble people, though He likes to humble the proud so that they will be more fit for His Kingdom. One of the difficulties prideful people face is that they sometimes want to rely more on their own personal opinions, feelings or private revelations than on the wisdom of others, either fellow Christians or the infallibility of the Catholic Church. That kind of attitude can be a result of pride and it’s worth fighting. Pride is an obstacle we all struggle against . I’m trying to get away completely from all pride in my private revelations, and in the praise some people give me. It’s easy to be consumed in pride, and I and most everyone really has to fight it.

In a more specific response to your question, I simply would like to reiterate again the advice your priest gave you. Don’t make big decisions about whether you should be Orthodox or Catholic while in the midst of a time of great trial, darkness and confusion. Wait until you’ve been several months experiencing peace and none of these trials. Then, after that time of peace has come, make your decision about which Church you will live in based on reason, historical, scriptural and patristic evidence, and firm conviction. Don’t make this decision now, through uncertainty and private revelation. Wait. What you do should be established on a firm foundation. What you have now is uncertainty and private revelation. Wait until you’ve been several months at peace, without severe temptations or trials, and then make your decision based on reason, historical, scriptural and patristic evidence, and firm conviction.

Your private revelations in the Church could be deceptions (though I don’t think so, and their fruit indicates they are genuine) and your private revelations trying to attack your faith are in many cases certainly deceptions (such as the ones concerning mortal sin and the unforgivable sin, for these are contrary to both the teachings of the Orthodox and the Catholic Churches, and most Protestants also would agree with these). You’ve got to stop depending on any private revelation or feeling. You’ve got to escape from that kind of dependence. Faith is the key; you’ve got to hold fast to faith through the will, and at the same time seek humility to listen to others and really listen and heed what they say, and especially listen to the bishops and official Church teaching. That requires humility, putting what they say above what you feel and experience. It requires putting the self second and distrusting the self. The saints sometimes received genuine private revelations from Jesus and their priests or spiritual directors told them that they were from the devil. They listened to their spiritual directors above their own instincts, which said these experiences were genuine, and God respected this and lifted these saints high because of their humility. Follow their holy and noble example. Listen to your spiritual director, to the Catholic Church, the bishops, Fathers and saints, above your own feelings, instincts and private revelations. Put yourself second in this way, trusting those whose relationships with God are beyond question and whose authority is certainly divine (both the Orthodox and Catholic Churches agree that our bishops have a valid apostolic succession) above yourself, and in this way you will become humble.

God bless you and grant you the strength to do this, in the footsteps of the saints, through the Immaculate Heart of Mary. In Jesus’ Name, Amen.

 

[Monica4316]

Thanks Lief!

Ever since I realized that I have a lot of pride (and I’m sure it’s greater than I feel it is) - I’ve been thinking that I did give those experiences (regarding the EOC) too much importance. It does seem this way to me now. I’ll try to just seek humility and pray and talk to a priest, and hopefully with time, God will make things clearer. But it is likely that I wasn’t able to let go of these experiences because I felt like God was revealing something to me. Even though they caused me anxiety and fear, - I think there was also pride involved, because I was trusting so much in myself. I can see that my pride or self reliance hasn’t really decreased all that much, but at least now I see that I have it. I’ll try to rely more on the Church’s judgement and less on what I feel.

As for my experiences in the Catholic Church, they did bring me closer to God (and often encouraged me to seek virtue and humility), and it makes sense as you said that God still works in the lives of sinners to bring them to Himself. It seems incredible to me that God would still give me graces despite my pride, but perhaps it’s actually better to just trust Him on this… it’s also a type of pride to think that our sins are greater than God’s love and mercy. But I still don’t fully trust the experiences, because I guess we never know for sure about those things, so I’ll try to not rely on them as I’m discerning about the Church… I think it might be better if I just prayed and researched and left the rest to God.

God bless!

 

[Lief_Erikson]

That’s a good idea. You might also wait on the whole researching and deciding process until you’re sure that the trial is over and you aren’t experiencing so many attempts to deceive you. I mean, researching is fine, but I recommend waiting on any decisions until the turbulence you’re going through now has been over for a few months and you have been living in the Lord’s peace for quite some time.

 

[TheQuestioner]

That’s a good idea. You might also wait on the whole researching and deciding process until you’re sure that the trial is over and you aren’t experiencing so many attempts to deceive you. I mean, researching is fine, but I recommend waiting on any decisions until the turbulence you’re going through now has been over for a few months and you have been living in the Lord’s peace for quite some time.

I second this.

 

[Monica4316]

Thanks for the advice

Unfortunately, I’m still going through so much confusion… I really don’t know how I’ll be able to get out of it. Whenever I look back on what I’ve done, and how I believed that all the good things that God has done in my life were actually evil things from the devil, - that seems to me exactly like what the Pharisees did in Matthew 12… they called good evil, and so did I… I rejected everything that God did in my life… I’ve been trying so hard to repent of it, but I don’t feel forgiven, and the sin seems to always be in my soul. Often I get tempted - very strongly - to think the same thing again, but now I fight this temptation. I’ve read in Pope John Paul II’s encyclical that the unforgiveable sin is rejecting conversion, - and what the Pharisees did was evidence of their rejection of God in their hearts.

According to such an exegesis, “blasphemy” does not properly consist in offending against the Holy Spirit in words; it consists rather in the refusal to accept the salvation which God offers to man through the Holy Spirit, working through the power of the Cross. If man rejects the “convincing concerning sin” which comes from the Holy Spirit and which has the power to save, he also rejects the “coming” of the Counselor-that “coming” which was accomplished in the Paschal Mystery, in union with the redemptive power of Christ’s Blood: the Blood which “purifies the conscience from dead works.”

We know that the result of such a purification is the forgiveness of sins. Therefore, whoever rejects the Spirit and the Blood remains in “dead works,” in sin. And the blasphemy against the Holy Spirit consists precisely in the radical refusal to accept this forgiveness, of which he is the intimate giver and which presupposes the genuine conversion which he brings about in the conscience. If Jesus says that blasphemy against the Holy Spirit cannot be forgiven either in this life or in the next, it is because this “non-forgiveness” is linked, as to its cause, to “non-repentance,” in other words to the radical refusal to be converted. This means the refusal to come to the sources of Redemption, which nevertheless remain “always” open in the economy of salvation in which the mission of the Holy Spirit is accomplished. The Spirit has infinite power to draw from these sources: “he will take what is mine,” Jesus said. In this way he brings to completion in human souls the work of the Redemption accomplished by Christ, and distributes its fruits. Blasphemy against the Holy Spirit, then, is the sin committed by the person who claims to have a “right” to persist in evil-in any sin at all-and who thus rejects Redemption. One closes oneself up in sin, thus making impossible one’s conversion, and consequently the remission of sins, which one considers not essential or not important for one’s life. This is a state of spiritual ruin, because blasphemy against the Holy Spirit does not allow one to escape from one’s self-imposed imprisonment and open oneself to the divine sources of the purification of consciences and of the remission of sins.

That makes a lot of sense. I am repentant for what I’ve done, and I also realize that my rejection at that time didn’t come from my own hatred of God, but through a powerful temptation… It’s like something took over my mind and imagination… However, I also realize that I could have fought it. I consented to it, because I thought that it was God who was telling me those things!! I thought that God was trying to tell me that I’ve never knew Him…

Whenever I try to repent of this, I don’t feel forgiven at all… and I can’t seem to come back to God. And I’m almost constantly tempted to sin in the same way again. My confusion about churches makes this even worse. If God does want me to be Orthodox, then that ‘voice’ might have been Him… This leaves me wondering if I actually am supposed to repent… but I repent anyways, because deep inside I believe that God has revealed Himself to me through the Catholic Church.

I don’t know who to talk to about this… I feel like the devil has brought me into a trap and I can’t get out of it. I pray all the time and I can’t figure it out. I would really appreciate if you could please pray for me… thank you!! God bless

 

[elizabeth_anne_1]

Have you by chance considered looking for professional help seeing how you have not been able to get past this on your own? Monica, you may need to swallow your pride here. Take that to prayer!

 

[Monica4316]

Have you by chance considered looking for professional help seeing how you have not been able to get past this on your own? Monica, you may need to swallow your pride here. Take that to prayer!

Elizabeth, I’m going to be honest… I don’t think this is about pride. I’m totally open into looking for professional help if it involves talking to a priest or a spiritual director or someone who understands spiritual things. But if I go to a doctor or a psychiatrist, what will I say - that I feel far from God? I don’t have depression or anxiety… what can I possibly tell the doctor that isn’t a spiritual problem? and what can they do? I don’t know. I don’t have anything else to say. The priests I’ve talked to told me to seek spiritual help.

I really wanted to see a priest today but I don’t know how that can be possible becaues I don’t know if i can get a ride. The church isn’t walking distance and there are no buses and I can’t drive. Maybe i can email a priest. This isn’t about me wanting to solve the problem “on my own”… I want help! I just don’t see what a doctor can do, and it’s difficult for me to see a priest because whenever I ask to go to church, my mom gets angry at me. My family situation is really difficult right now. I can’t describe my whole situation… but no one believes me. I was trying to say before, that it’s very difficult for me to ask to see a doctor because of my family situation.

 

[baltobetsy]

Elizabeth, I’m going to be honest… I don’t think this is about pride. I’m totally open into looking for professional help if it involves talking to a priest or a spiritual director or someone who understands spiritual things. But if I go to a doctor or a psychiatrist, what will I say - that I feel far from God? I don’t have depression or anxiety… what can I possibly tell the doctor that isn’t a spiritual problem?

Although it appears to be so to you, your problem is not the content of your thoughts. it is the fact that you have longstanding recurring unwanted thoughts. It doesn’t matter if they’re religious temptations or temptations against purity or thoughts about cats. It matters that you keep having thoughts you do not want and do not consent to, and that you are unable to get them under control. A doctor or psychiatrist can help you with this, regardless of the content of the unwanted thoughts. The doctor will be very familiar with this kind of problem, whether it manifests itself in spiritual problems or other obsessions.

Betsy

 

[Monica4316]

Although it appears to be so to you, your problem is not the content of your thoughts. it is the fact that you have longstanding recurring unwanted thoughts. It doesn’t matter if they’re religious temptations or temptations against purity or thoughts about cats. It matters that you keep having thoughts you do not want and do not consent to, and that you are unable to get them under control. A doctor or psychiatrist can help you with this, regardless of the content of the unwanted thoughts. The doctor will be very familiar with this kind of problem, whether it manifests itself in spiritual problems or other obsessions.

Betsy

Betsy, I’ve had unwanted thoughts before when I was being tempted to blasphemous thoughts… then what happened, is one day I was telling God how I can’t deal with them anymore and that it was easier when I was being tempted against my faith in the Catholic Church and felt confused if I should be Catholic or Orthodox. Well in a day or two, the thoughts completely went away, and this new trial started. Why? I dont know. But I don’t have unwanted thoughts anymore. I’m confused because I can’t figure out what God wants. The experiences I described before were like something taking over my imagination - not repeated unwanted thoughts. I know what that’s like and it was different. Could there be a psychological component? sure. I’m not going to say I have the “dark night of the soul” or anything spiritually advanced. Probably the devil is just attacking me because he found a way in, because of some psychological problem. Could be. But my family situation is such that it would totally alienate my mom from the Christian faith if I asked to see a doctor for something spiritual-related. Even if I didnt describe it as such, it would completely stress out my parents, and they’re already going through a lot, in fact they’re getting a divorce. I keep on explaining this and people don’t understand or don’t believe me I know that you want to help and I appreciate that and I’ve thought carefully about your posts. I just don’t see how I can ask my family to see a doctor, and I can’t drive and there are no buses around here. I also feel like my main problem will remain… I’ll still be confused about spiritual things. I need a priest. I was thinking of seeing a priest today, but it looks like I won’t be able to get a ride.

I’m moving away to university in the fall and I’ll try to get a spiritual director in that area.

 

[elizabeth_anne_1]

Monica, dear, I realize this is not easy to hear…but these thoughts are obsessive. And these thoughts do seem to cause you a lot of anxiety. You really do need psychological help for that. Our minds are not immune to going haywire in matters related to the spiritual. This does not mean that there is not anything spiritual going on, but that there may be both a spiritual and psychological element to this. I know because I have had similar experiences, and I did not think I needed help either. I did get help, thanks to a priest who is also a psychologist who pointed out to me that I did in fact need help. I am trying as gently as possible to do the same for you. Maybe find a Christian therapist or at least speak to your physician.

 

[elizabeth_anne_1]

You really may need to consider moving away from your family. It is not helpful for them to influence you to not take care of yourself. I understand family problems too.