need some clarification

[baltobetsy]

Maybe you could just do what elizabeth anne suggested and take it to prayer instead of rejecting the idea straightaway.

 

[Monica4316]

Monica, dear, I realize this is not easy to hear…but these thoughts are obsessive. And these thoughts do seem to cause you a lot of anxiety. You really do need psychological help for that. Our minds are not immune to going haywire in matters related to the spiritual. This does not mean that there is not anything spiritual going on, but that there may be both a spiritual and psychological element to this. I know because I have had similar experiences, and I did not think I needed help either. I did get help, thanks to a priest who is also a psychologist who pointed out to me that I did in fact need help. I am trying as gently as possible to do the same for you. Maybe find a Christian therapist or at least speak to your physician.

Elizabeth, I see what you are saying, I just can’t understand how this particular case was obsessive thoughts. It didn’t feel like that at all. It literally felt like something taking over my mind and imagination and feelings. It came out of nowhere and I wasn’t obsessing over my problems at the time, I wasn’t thinking about anything. Maybe you’re right though. I’m not ruling that out. I just keep on thinking… even if a doctor can help me with some of the symptoms, - how will that solve my current situaiton? The doctor won’t be able to tell me what the unforgiveable sin is, or if I’ve done it, and what Church God wants me to go to… I’ll still have to figure that out, and i don’t know how.

You really may need to consider moving away from your family. It is not helpful for them to influence you to not take care of yourself. I understand family problems too.

I’m moving away in the fall… maybe I’ll be able to see a doctor then, although as I said, my questions will remain. I’ll try to get a spiritual director too.

 

[TheQuestioner]

Whenever I try to repent of this, I don’t feel forgiven at all

Doesn’t matter. If “feeling” sorry has nothing to do with repentance then why would “feeling” forgiven have to do with anything with forgiveness. Often times we are harder on ourselves than God is. You may have to learn to forgive yourself for the mistake you made.

and I can’t seem to come back to God

It seems that you use this phrase to mean you “haven’t received any consolation as of yet”. It would be better if you said just that, because if you keep repeating the first you will only make yourself feel better. Not only that but “I can’t seem to come back to God” sounds more like you think you can come to God of your own power, which is just not true. God draws man to Himself and we move to Him by the Power of the Spirit. This is done through our repentance, the tool which God uses. And with that being the case then you know you have come back to God since you already repented. Try to watch your language, because sometimes we can confuse ourselves. We can say one thing and mean two things.

If God does want me to be Orthodox, then that ‘voice’ might have been Him

Technically God doesn’t want anyone to be Orthodox, or Catholic as an end in itself. God want’s people to accept Him, love Him, glorify Him, worship Him and to be unified to Him. That being the case, being Catholic is the best way to come to this end because it is the path revealed, set up and illuminated by Him. And there in lies your problem. From the quote it seems that you have made this, and the devil has tricked you into thinking that this is, about what God “wants” when in reality it was never about that at all. What God wants is clear. The real focus is on what you believe, and since you believe all the Church teaches and professes there is no real problem…unless you don’t believe, in which case just pray “God I believe, help me in my unbelief”.

I feel like the devil has brought me into a trap and I can’t get out of it

You’re already out of it, you’re just still a bit shaky. You’ll do fine. The bad feelings will go away, just be patient. Pray for endurance and final perseverance.

I don’t know who to talk to about this

Oh, I’m sure you have friends you can talk to. And hey, you’ve been talking to us here on the forum.

 

[TheQuestioner]

I’m not going to say I have the “dark night of the soul” or anything spiritually advanced

You do.

And don’t worry. The Dark Night isn’t really a mark of advanced spirituality, but the mark of advancing spirituality…at least I think. Technically everyone goes through numerous “dark nights”. The reason why the first one is so terrible is because the first time we doubt whether it will ever end. After that we realize it comes and goes. But what do I know, I haven’t read the book.

 

[mlz]

Hi

I know I’ve made threads about this topic in the past, but sometimes I’m not sure what to think and it helps me to speak to others

A while ago, I felt very strongly that all the ways that God has revealed Himself to me, have been delusions from the devil. Sadly, I gave in to this temptation and believed this for a while… while the feeling lasted. But I didn’t believe it fully, there was always something in me that protested the idea. Afterwards, I realized it’s not true, and I repented and changed my mind.

This was around 2 and a half weeks ago… but ever since then, I’ve felt so incredibly far from God. Even after I’ve repented. I frequently feel like I’m going to hell.

I’ve read that the unforgiveable sin involves unrepentance… but the Pharisees in Matthew 12 did the same thing I have done - they thought that something from the Holy Spirit is from the devil. I also felt like everything I’ve ever believed about His goodness, or His love and mercy, has been a delusion…essentially, I believed that His love is of the devil!! That is so horrible. I don’t actually believe that now at all, quite the opposite. My fear is that even though I was under a lot of pressure, I still committed the unforgiveable sin, and am not fully repentant for it. Even though this doesn’t always make sense to me, I always feel like it’s true. I’m so tired of constantly feeling like I’m lost and can’t get back to God… it causes me pain just to think of Him.

I’m wondering if anyone can please just pray for me or share your thoughts about the unforgiveable sin. Would you say that my sin is forgiveable? if so, I don’t understand how it’s different from what the Pharisees did…

I wish I had a spiritual director, but I don’t yet.

Thank you

It sounds as if you are in need of a spiritual director and possibly a medical evaluation. I will pray that you get this help. You are being “messed with” from the enemy of your soul and confused. Jesus loves you whether you feel it or not. He is with you and in you. Don’t live by mere feelings. Trust Him and also, praise Him for His faithfulness to you through everything. ( I know, easier said than done, but sometimes it takes your WILL to do it w/o emotion. Say " I love you Jesus. or Thank you Jesus" over and over. Read positive, hopeful verses from the bible and post them where you can see them. These are just ideas to do until you get the help or even while you get help. I will keep you in my prayers dear one.

Blessings in Him,
mlz

 

[TheQuestioner]

The doctor won’t be able to tell me what the unforgiveable sin is, or if I’ve done it, and what Church God wants me to go to… I’ll still have to figure that out, and i don’t know how.

Ok Monica. This will help but you have to read what I tell you to. If you have any questions get back to me.

Now, read Article 2 on this page

newadvent.org/summa/3014.htm

Aquinas is hard to read, and you may have to have a notebook and draw up some equations, but in the end it should shed some light on why you didn’t commit the unforgivable sin. If you are not convinced by then message me.

 

[Student09]

You do.

And don’t worry. The Dark Night isn’t really a mark of advanced spirituality, but the mark of advancing spirituality…at least I think. Technically everyone goes through numerous “dark nights”. The reason why the first one is so terrible is because the first time we doubt whether it will ever end. After that we realize it comes and goes. But what do I know, I haven’t read the book.

John of the Cross distinguishes two nights, the night of sense and the night of spirit. The first is experienced by beginners. It may vary in intensity and length depending on the person, the strength of their soul and the level of contemplative prayer to which God wishes to raise them. The night of the spirit is actually much worse - this is the one that is only experienced by people who have attained to a high degree of prayer. Actually, St. John says that it seems to them also that the dark night of spirit will never end, that they have been completely abandoned by God.

Once one comes out of the first night, there may also be “foreshadowings” of the impending dark night of spirit, which are like mini nights, of short duration but increasing severity. Very weak souls may only ever experience mini nights of sense, with the result that they advance very little.

In short, you are correct - some form of the dark night can occur to any person who is serious about loving God at any point in their spiritual development.

 

[Lief_Erikson]

Nice overview, Student09 .

 

[Monica4316]

Thank you

Yesterday I asked St Faustina to help me and I felt more hope, but this morning I once again got really scared that God won’t forgive me… I dont even know if I’m repentant enough… I will go to Confession on Saturday and I hope that will help. I dont understand why Jesus said that this sin can’t be forgiven… I thought it’s because such a person wont repent, and that’s what I also read in Pope John Paul II’s encyclical, - and many people think that Jesus’ words to the Pharisees were a warning for them… but whenever I read Matthew 12, it just scares me so much, because I start wondering if a person who did this sin would even be granted the grace of repentance. Doesn’t it say somewhere in another part of the New Testament, that if a person knows about God and then falls away, they can’t be brought back to repentance? I don’t really know what to think I don’t know if I have enough repentance… I can’t seem to understand my soul or the basic truths of the faith. That’s why I’m always asking these questions lol because I only understand when things are explained to me; in my mind I’m really confused.

 

[mlz]

Confusion is not from God nor is fear however we all seem to battle both of these. If you feel “accused” of these things chances are the enemy of your soul (Satan) is trying to harass you. God convicts in love, never, never accusingly. I heard once that the word fear really means: F…false E…evidence A…appearing R…real. These verses you’ve mentioned don’t apply to you and your situation. You desire Him and He will never leave you or forsake you. HIS faithfulness is so great. Instead of concentrating on these verses read the ones that will build your faith in Him. Go to the concordance of your bible and look up verses on hope, faithfulneess, love etc. and read these out loud. Thank the Lord for His grace and mercy in your life. Praise Him for His faithfulness and love! Psalms are especially helpful to read Sit before the Blessed Sacrament in awe of Him! I will keep praying
mlz

" …God is love. Whoever lives in love lives in God, and God in him. In this way, love is made complete among us so that we will have confidence on the day of judgement, because in this world we are like him. There is no fear in love. But perfect love drives out fear, because fear has to do with punishment. The one who fears is not made perfect in love." 1 John 4:16-18

 

[Monica4316]

Thanks mlz!

I’m really trying to trust God that He can forgive me… when I trust Him, it does get easier. It’s just so difficult for me to understand or to hold on to this trust… because whenever I read Matthew 12, it seems obvious to me that I denied the Holy Spirit and called Him evil, by thinking that His gifts are evil and demonic I would never have thought something like that, but I felt like God was telling me that and I was afraid of saying no to Him… the impression was so strong. Afterwards, I realized that I should have been more discerning.

It doesn’t make sense to me… why did Jesus say the sin is unforgiveable? I read that’s because such a person wouldn’t repent… but I’m repenting… so I don’t get it. Maybe I didn’t ‘truly’ do it? I mean it was still a sin, but maybe whatever makes it unforgiveable wasn’t present in my case. I’m just so afraid of losing God. That’s my greatest fear. It makes sense that if a person thinks the Holy Spirit is evil, they are rejecting salvation, and so can’t be saved. But once I realized I was thinking this, I changed my mind and repented.



I’ll try and talk to a priest on Saturday… and I’ll pray before the Blessed Sacrament. I’ll be sooo happy if God will forgive me but I think this is the worst sin I’ve ever done. It’s even worse than rejecting God’s love; it’s calling God’s love evil. How can He forgive something like that? My mind just can’t understand that… if anyone can help with the theology of all this, that would be great Maybe if I had a way of understanding this, I could remember that argument whenever I get tempted to despair.

God bless

 

[Monica4316]

Okay I’ve been praying and thinking more about all this… It’s so difficult for me to believe that God can forgive me it seems to me like He won’t… I dont know what to do I feel like I’ve lost God forever… please pray for me if you can