Need translation from womanese ;)

[Just_wondering]

I’m sorry, chevalier, but it seems like she’s not really interested enough. You’re right - she’s sending mixed messages, and to me that says that she either doesn’t know what she wants, or she enjoys your attentions but doesn’t actually want to date you.

But I’m a woman and I’m still not fluent at womanese. People sometimes joke that I have a man’s heart in a woman’s body! I wish people would just come right out and say what their intentions are from the beginning!

“Jane? It’s Bob here. You know, I was thinking about our friendship and how much I admire you, and I think we might make a good couple. If you feel the same way, let’s try dating for about six months or a year. Then, if things work out, I would be honoured to have a woman like you as my wife. And if you don’t feel the same way, I would not be offended if you said no. Hurt, maybe, but I value our friendship, so I would get over it and I wouldn’t pressure you to change your mind.”

I tried asking a guy out like that once. He ran. It was about six months before he spoke to me again. Apparently being direct doesn’t work very well!

But now I’m with a wonderful man who is just as direct with me as I am with him, and we get along fine. On our second date (we had been friends before we started dating) he declared his intention to make me his wife someday. He started making proposal noises after two months. It’s been four, and no ring yet, but the proposal noises are getting louder. And when he met my brother, he introduced himself as his future brother-in-law.

 

[chevalier]

Hmm… or perhaps she wants it but doesn’t want to make the decision, or would like to but doesn’t want to. Something like that. It would be simple if she had a boyfriend, otherwise it’s strange and perhaps I should ask her if I’m not being pushy since I’m getting the vibe I’m intruding. If it weren’t for the couple of factors I mentioned, I’d probably give up on her a while ago, but I can’t forget how she remembered some details, which means they were somehow important to her or made a lasting impression, and I can’t really ignore how she turns out when she unwinds a bit and gets sucked in the conversation. But as you say, it’s misleading.

 

[Cindy1]

Yeah that does give a few more clues…I think that you definitely need to directly sort it out with her. It might be hard for you to start it off, but it will save you so much heartache and time wondering what is happening.
In fact, don’t take this the wrong way, but do you think that YOU could be giving her misleading signals?? You give you pink roses etc, but still don’t directly ask her out???

I was great friends with this guy once, then I started really liking him, and tried to give him some hints about how I felt…he responded in turn and we’d do stuff together and go to things together…this went on for months, with me getting more and more frustrated and confused…I knew he liked me, but he just wasn’t going to actually ask me out, and I couldn’t understand one…we might have a romantic moment, then I wouldn’t hear any more about it…so I tried pulling back so I wouldn’t get hurt…and so the cycle went on…until eventually we both had too much to drink one night and started kissing. The next day he pretended nothing had happened…so a week later I confronted him. And the truth came out then (the truth about why he was behaving like he was isn’t really relevant to this tho). Anyway, I was finished with him and started going out with my now fiance a few weeks later.

So what I’m trying to say, is that you say there has been romantic times in the last few years, so I strongly suggest that you ask her outright. It will make you feel so much better to know the truth.

 

[aboverubies]

Firstly chevalier, I would leave all that happened when you were friends previously, in the past and stop trying to go over and over it. Her reaction to the roses years ago, her mother’s smiles, the way she dressed, the things she said…these will not likely give you any clues to the condition of her heart today.

My feeling is that the girl likes you as a friend, and would be happy to catch up for a coffee and a chat however she does not seem interested in developing a deeper relationship. Your biggest clue is the fact that she won’t ever make a definite date, time and place to meet. Her arrangements are at best tentative and even then she doesn’t find the time to follow through. If it’s always “later, next time, soon…” then she is not seriously pursuing a relationship with you.

If she were, she would have been over the moon by your first contact after all this time and would have replied to your first invitiation with “Lovely to hear from you, a get-together would be great, when is good for you?” Then when you had negotiated a time and place she would have arrived dressed prettily and smiling; NOT being “evasive, short and even coarse”.

Instead I feel she is trying to subtly let you know that, although she enjoys your conversations, has some fond memories of old times and is happy to “catch-up”…she is not offering anything more. I believe she is hoping you will get the message that she simply wants to remain friends. If you make her come out and say “chevalier, I am not interested in you romantically but would still like to be friends” it may always be awkward between you and even the friendship you do share may be lost. The fact that you are not sure if she considers you an aquaintance or friend indicates that she is holding you at arms length so as not to get your hopes up.

May I offer some advice? Take the hint, guard your heart and move on, so as to be open to any other girls who may be looking for a guy who is “willing to take a bullet for them” I’m sure they are out there!

 

[chevalier]

In fact, don’t take this the wrong way, but do you think that YOU could be giving her misleading signals?? You give you pink roses etc, but still don’t directly ask her out???

Yes, I believe especially before she went to study in another city, she had some form of crush on me and if I had made a move, I think she would have accepted that… However, I was insecure, afraid of rejection, didn’t even know for sure I wanted her. I tried to take things in that direction afterwards and the result was strange. She seemed to be taking it well, but not reciprocating, and I think she did indeed plan on making a good impression on me.

I was great friends with this guy once, then I started really liking him, and tried to give him some hints about how I felt…he responded in turn and we’d do stuff together and go to things together…this went on for months, with me getting more and more frustrated and confused…I knew he liked me, but he just wasn’t going to actually ask me out, and I couldn’t understand one…we might have a romantic moment, then I wouldn’t hear any more about it…so I tried pulling back so I wouldn’t get hurt…and so the cycle went on…until eventually we both had too much to drink one night and started kissing. The next day he pretended nothing had happened…so a week later I confronted him. And the truth came out then (the truth about why he was behaving like he was isn’t really relevant to this tho). Anyway, I was finished with him and started going out with my now fiance a few weeks later.

Sounds like what she potentially went through, kissing excepted. Well, I was a dolt.

So what I’m trying to say, is that you say there has been romantic times in the last few years, so I strongly suggest that you ask her outright. It will make you feel so much better to know the truth.

I’m heading in that direction, but we’ve never talked about boyfriends, girlfriends, such plans - I think it was sensitive, so it was avoided. Or maybe it was more like dating than I had thought, in retrospect. Well, thing is, I’ve never seen how she acts around people, especially men, how she behaves at parties (I just know from her words that men complain she isn’t letting them lead, though why she was telling me such things was beyond me, and it was probably in some connection with the fact we never made that dancing sortie happen - once a disaffecting combo for me). Besides, she was practicing 6 years ago, but I don’t know now and I can’t handle any more disagreement about moral matters - one relationship already fell apart last February for that reason. On the other hand, I can’t keep asking questions and probing since it’ll be obvious and a bit rude, so all in all, I guess a meaningful conversation will have to happen.

 

[chevalier]

My feeling is that the girl likes you as a friend, and would be happy to catch up for a coffee and a chat however she does not seem interested in developing a deeper relationship. Your biggest clue is the fact that she won’t ever make a definite date, time and place to meet. Her arrangements are at best tentative and even then she doesn’t find the time to follow through. If it’s always “later, next time, soon…” then she is not seriously pursuing a relationship with you.

I’d say that as well, although it doesn’t match with other things.

If she were, she would have been over the moon by your first contact after all this time and would have replied to your first invitiation with “Lovely to hear from you, a get-together would be great, when is good for you?” Then when you had negotiated a time and place she would have arrived dressed prettily and smiling; NOT being “evasive, short and even coarse”.

Right. Besides, there’s no pretending I’m a big fan of being on the receiving end of evasion, shortness and the like.

The fact that you are not sure if she considers you an aquaintance or friend indicates that she is holding you at arms length so as not to get your hopes up.

Yup, though not sure about whether it’s really about my hopes and sparing me disappointments. I wouldn’t wager that. The last time someone care not to disappoint me was… err… never. Generally, with young women these days it’s more about not creating awkward situations.

May I offer some advice? Take the hint, guard your heart and move on, so as to be open to any other girls who may be looking for a guy who is “willing to take a bullet for them” I’m sure they are out there!

Actually, I’m skpetical there. On the other hand, I can live with that. Well, all in all, I think the best would be to know if she’d be receptive and if yes, then find out more if we match or not, if not, then well, not. Just a pity it ends this way.

 

[Magicsilence]

I’d say that as well, although it doesn’t match with other things.

Right. Besides, there’s no pretending I’m a big fan of being on the receiving end of evasion, shortness and the like.

Yup, though not sure about whether it’s really about my hopes and sparing me disappointments. I wouldn’t wager that. The last time someone care not to disappoint me was… err… never. Generally, with young women these days it’s more about not creating awkward situations.

Actually, I’m skpetical there. On the other hand, I can live with that. Well, all in all, I think the best would be to know if she’d be receptive and if yes, then find out more if we match or not, if not, then well, not. Just a pity it ends this way.

My impression, chevalier, is that you like this girl and don’t want to let go of the fact that you think she had a crush on you once before.

To me, it sounds like she is definitely trying to drop a hint that she is not interested in anything more than friendship.

I’d just let her be, rather than have your heart (and possibly friendship) broken by being rejected and forcing the situation.

On the bright side, she may not be looking for any sort of relationship right now, so it might not be you per se, but any sort of intimacy that she is trying to avoid.

Anyway, girls are strange creatures. I still haven’t figured them out , but I think the majority opinion on this thread is that she does not want to take your relationship to a deeper level.

In Jesus Christ,

 

[aboverubies]

Anyway, girls are strange creatures. I still haven’t figured them out :thumbsup

Yes, we are strange creatures, but for some reason that just seems to make men all the more interested in us!

but I think the majority opinion on this thread is that she does not want to take your relationship to a deeper level.

Yep, thems the breaks kiddo. :console:

 

[chevalier]

My impression, chevalier, is that you like this girl and don’t want to let go of the fact that you think she had a crush on you once before.

Possible. Or that I was an idiot back then. Actually, maybe it’s all been for the better, she isn’t for me, I wasn’t an idiot when I was younger etc, but at least that’s how it feels, I think. I think the best thing to do would be to destress somehow and take it on some level that won’t give pain or stress.

To me, it sounds like she is definitely trying to drop a hint that she is not interested in anything more than friendship.

Hmm… Really? I wasn’t prepared for that. I thought whatever she was showing or even trying to show, was subconscious. I would also see some mixed signals in the conflicting messages. But perhaps I’m seeing things and she isn’t interested at all. On the other hand, I’ve already made such a conclusion once in my life only to discover later that I was wrong, when the girl was already with someone else (before I met this one). Wouldn’t like to repeat the mistake.

I’d just let her be, rather than have your heart (and possibly friendship) broken by being rejected and forcing the situation.

Well, I could probably always make the precedent and ask about family plans or some such, then if she had a boyfriend or some other object of her affections, I’d now it’s off limits, if she mentioned she sought something specific I didn’t really see myself as, then I’d now it’s dead game. But that could drag on for months.

On the bright side, she may not be looking for any sort of relationship right now, so it might not be you per se, but any sort of intimacy that she is trying to avoid.

Of that I’m pretty sure, I mean of the existence of factors making her less than eager to settle down and plan things. I think she’s one of those reluctant to pick a person early, plus, she was doing two Master’s at the same time and now is looking at post-grad, possibly abroad, meaning she’s going to be on the fly for some more, and she seems to enjoy that state. As for me specifically, I don’t know, but I can perfectly understand if I’m not someone’s type or there’s no chemistry - just depends how it’s said. “Yeah, you’re a great guy and I like you a lot. Perhaps I thought something would come out of it, but there’s just no chemistry of that kind and you know without that it doesn’t really work,” is different from the typical rejection that makes you feel like a perv and/or a criminal. She obviously means quite a lot to me, since with new people I don’t get this kind of thing. They don’t text back, I don’t care. They prove not my type, pity and move on. Their behaviour is insulting, I don’t care either.

Anyway, girls are strange creatures. I still haven’t figured them out , but I think the majority opinion on this thread is that she does not want to take your relationship to a deeper level.

That’s quite a cold shower, but maybe you’re right. My intuition is telling me something’s wrong and I’m always better off following my intuition than analysing. But my intuition is telling me there’s a lot I don’t know and some of it works in my favour. I already have a knack for warming this girl to me, so maybe I’ll at least work out the rough edges and restore some friendly contact. If not, there’s always the option, “Is there something wrong? It just feels like that. A bit like something’s broken between us,” and chances are she’d say she’s having the impression I’m trying this and that, while she… and so on and so forth. May I ask for some prayers? I do value your advice and it’s been of much help to me. It’s sobering and perhaps in some way refreshing. I’d still however like to set things right at least diplomatically. I think I’ll try to pray a lot and above all be a good person when handling it, and I believe such things can change a lot. I don’t mean making her fall in love with me, but somehow repairing the contacts on a friendly level.

 

[Liberanosamalo]

Chevalier, I’m going to go out on a limb and suggest something that will probably make your head explode, but…



This is where actually kissing a date comes in handy. I know you seem to have some sort of internal self-imposed rule against it. But trust me, from a female perspective, an attempted kiss has a way of removing all doubt. Then you aren’t reduced to reading tea leaves, the flutter of an eyelash, a text message done while driving, or looking six years ago for the implications of a smile or a voice tone.

You get your answer right here and now. She either dodges the kiss and you have an answer. Or she reciprocates. Looks in your eyes and then kisses YOU in return!

No plague of self-doubt. No asking strangers who never met her on a messageboard what she’s thinking.

It’s not like we’re suggesting you go to bed with her. Trust me when I say MOST women know by the end of a first date whether they want a man to try to kiss them. They may play the “three dates rule” which to me is artificial, but that’s just from observing people who play games and then go on to fornicate after an initial pretense of purity.

If your relationship isn’t comfortable enough to try that, you don’t have one. Not on that level, at least. Because, sir, if we like a guy, we WANT him to kiss us. And if we don’t want that kind of relationship, if he tries, we gently give him the “just friends” speech.

Not that I’ve dated in almost 20 years, but I’m just sayin’…

When we want a guy, we obsess about them also. Seeing him every day isn’t enough. Phone calls are answered immediately. No vagueness about “personal calls.” We are eager to share our whole selves and all our thoughts. (To the point some guys wish we’d shut up.)

Doesn’t sound like she’s there. Whatever old spark there was isn’t worth resurrecting. Or you’d be in flames by now. Trust me.
It probably was for the best.

If you try to kiss a woman, you get your answer, one you want or one you don’t want. But at least you have an answer.

 

[Magicsilence]

That’s quite a cold shower, but maybe you’re right. My intuition is telling me something’s wrong and I’m always better off following my intuition than analysing. But my intuition is telling me there’s a lot I don’t know and some of it works in my favour.

I think you like this girl so much, that you are afraid to find out she doesn’t like you ‘that way’.

It’s a heartbreaking situation, literally , because whatever you do has the potential to be really emotionally painful.

 

[chevalier]

Liberanos, how keen. Actually, my head didn’t explode, but I really got up from my chair.

I see what you mean. I too have an internal rule against it. When it’s not wanted, it’s pretty much molestation. Agreed, though, that if the guy is liked but not liked “that way”, the whole offended/molested/whatever thing won’t be there, but as you said - a gentle get-back.

When we want a guy, we obsess about them also. Seeing him every day isn’t enough. Phone calls are answered immediately. No vagueness about “personal calls.” We are eager to share our whole selves and all our thoughts. (To the point some guys wish we’d shut up.)

Perhaps I’ve never really met a girl who’s been that much into me then. Wait, no, that’s not mine to judge. And also in many ways she was like that… six years ago. Yes, I know, my six years ago is getting boring.

And maybe it was for the best that things didn’t work out. Who knows. I tend to think she had a big thing for me and I was an idiot, but maybe it wouldn’t have worked out.

 

[chevalier]

I think you like this girl so much, that you are afraid to find out she doesn’t like you ‘that way’.

It’s a heartbreaking situation, literally , because whatever you do has the potential to be really emotionally painful.

Yes, you’re right. Perhaps the guilt has much to do with it. On the other hand, if she were to have a boyfriend now, I think I’d get over her in the present easily, only the memories would take a lot of time, but that’s something I’m used to having.

 

[jmcrae]

My translation (I am a middle-aged woman)

“I have a headache right now, but I would dearly love to see you next week when I am feeling better. Let’s go somewhere public, but casual, and get caught up on old times. Then, we can see where we go from here. I will consider dating you, if you don’t offer to split the cheque, but just quietly pay it yourself without my noticing.”

 

[Magicsilence]

Yes, you’re right. Perhaps the guilt has much to do with it. On the other hand, if she were to have a boyfriend now, I think I’d get over her in the present easily, only the memories would take a lot of time, but that’s something I’m used to having.

Hmm, would it be fair to assess this as an attachment to past emotions, that you really, really hope can be re-established in the present?

If it were me, I’m sure one thought that would keep coming to me would be ‘if she liked me before, why not again now?’.

Of course, it’s possible you misinterpreted her actions six years back, or that she has changed a lot since then.

I’m not really sure where you should go from here.

Personally, I would just leave her be, and if she was interested, let her show it to me clearly. If she can’t do that, she can’t be interested enough. And when a girl is really interested, they will let you know , one way or another.

Love God first, and concentrate on controlling your emotions and your response to them, and maybe things will fall into perspective .

In Jesus Christ,

 

[aboverubies]

My translation (I am a middle-aged woman)

“I have a headache right now, but I would dearly love to see you next week when I am feeling better. Let’s go somewhere public, but casual, and get caught up on old times. Then, we can see where we go from here. I will consider dating you, if you don’t offer to split the cheque, but just quietly pay it yourself without my noticing.”

But what is a guy to think if she always says “we’ll meet up *next *week…” yet never quite gets around to it?

And how can a guy kiss a girl at next week’s coffee date if next week never comes?

 

[Markstorm]

This is probably the most confusing language ever. French has silent letters but womanese apparently has hidden words. I’m glad I never learned this for a grade…

 

[chevalier]

It’ll be high time to phone and set it tomorrow or the day after and then I’ll be able to see if I get a next week or if she turns down the art exhibition I’d see before or after the coffee. If she doesn’t take one day or hour, I’ll offer another, but after that I’ll tell her it’s in her court now and finish the conversation the earliest politely possible. If then she doesn’t phone or text me, it’s not worth pushing. I’ll start with flowers and I’ll quietly settle the bill too. If things go well and something resparkles, I might try kissing her, if they just go well, we’ll see if it looks like a nice prospective friendship, or if she might be on the way to gradually opening more. I’ve concluded trying too much where unwelcome would be unfair towards anyone who’d be more welcoming in the same shoes.

This is probably the most confusing language ever. French has silent letters but womanese apparently has hidden words. I’m glad I never learned this for a grade…

Women have it hard too. I remember so many friends having problems figuring out what a guy said.

 

[chevalier]

My translation (I am a middle-aged woman)

“I have a headache right now, but I would dearly love to see you next week when I am feeling better. Let’s go somewhere public, but casual, and get caught up on old times. Then, we can see where we go from here. I will consider dating you, if you don’t offer to split the cheque, but just quietly pay it yourself without my noticing.”

Thanks. I did wonder at some point whether she wasn’t perhaps receptive to the general idea, receptive to me, but waiting for a more decided declaration rather than willing to engage in much flirting. I’ll be having your translation in mind too. Wonder which it’ll have been.

Hmm, would it be fair to assess this as an attachment to past emotions, that you really, really hope can be re-established in the present?

100% fair and correct as far as friendship, fair but maybe less correct when it comes to romance. I’d rather know her stance on sensitive matters before anything romantic starts and if she isn’t romantically interested in me, I’ll concentrate on friendship instead and perhaps see if things will go that way or not. I’d also love to be able to say things are right, good and healthy between her and me, since I’m worried by the complications.

 

[Ray_Scheel]

Chevalier:

You are getting two options, pros and cons to both.

First, the “just kiss the girl” method recommended by Liberanosamalo. High risk, high reward. It will provide a lot of information all at once. If it works, we’ll have to get out rope and weights to keep you from floating off. If it doesn’t, you seem sturdy enough that you’d survive the “hit by a truck” initial impact and we’ll help pull you out of the dent you’ll make in the ground. From my own past experience, one of the “looking back” regrets I have most often is having never tried to kiss a girl I was seeing 18 years ago, when I was a senior in high school. OTOH, I should have paid more attention to how my now-ex acted/reacted the first time we kissed. If you do get a date of sorts, I’d actually skip the flowers, see how it worked, and then jsut try to kiss the girl. Seriously.

Then there is the variations on “give her space”/“hard to get” approach. I don’t think that’ll work well, but really, if you get signals where getting close enough to kiss her doesn’t happen when/if you do get a meet-up, or if she continues to put off actually showing up someplace to do something together, that is the way to go. Pro: it is a lot less work, and cheaper too. Con: that blasted “what-if” might hang out there forever (see the regret I mentioned above).