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Its me, I am the one dealing with the anti-Catholic father in law. He sent an email and this is all it said:
Who were the Bereans and what did they do?
I have no idea what he is talking about, anyone want to lend me a hand in this?

thanks
 
Googled and this is what I came across:

thebereancall.org/

The ministry name, The Berean Call, is taken from Acts 17:11 where the writer of Acts commended those in the synagogue of the Greek city of Berea for being more fair minded than those in Thessalonica, because while they were eager to receive the Word, they also checked it against what the Apostle Paul taught them in order to see if his teaching was according to the Scriptures or not.

bereanbiblesociety.org/

If you go to their doctrinal page, among their doctrines is this:
  1. “Mankind by nature is sinful and under the condemnation of God” (Eph 2:1-3, Rom 3:9-12, I Cor 1:18-31)
more: google.com/search?hl=en&q=berean&btnG=Google+Search

I can’t tell if your father in law is asking about the orginal Bereans or these followers of a ‘Berean’ philosophy.
 
So any idea where he may be going with this?
Not a clue.

Perhaps you should respond with the factual…
that the Bereans were the people of Berea in the years of XX - XX AD to whom Paul taught…(of course you should read up on those passages of scriptures to start)…

then end the statement with “why do you ask?”
 
Could he be using it as a defense for sola scritpura? Because they used scripture to make sure that Paul’s teachings were correct? But wouldnt that actually be saying more than he wants, since during the time of Acts, there was no NT and the “scriptures” in the passsage refers to the OT, there for by his reasoning, the OT and not the entire Bible is the “sole rule of faith.” If this made any sense at all.

Or maybe the infallibility of Paul? Even though I dont believe the Catholic Church teaches that Paul was infallible, do we? By them searching the scriptures for proof he could be using that as an example that they didnt believe Paul was infallble… Once again only a problem if we teach Paul was infallible.

Just some things that caught my mind…

By the way thanks for your help.
 
Its me, I am the one dealing with the anti-Catholic father in law. He sent an email and this is all it said:

I have no idea what he is talking about, anyone want to lend me a hand in this?

thanks
I gotcha bro! I know exactly where he’s goin’ with this one. It’s his lead off on pitch for Sola Scriptura.
10 But the brethren immediately sent away Paul and Silas by night unto Berea. Who, when they were come thither, went into the synagogue of the Jews.
11 Now these were more noble than those in Thessalonica, who received the word with all eagerness, daily searching the scriptures, whether these things were so. 12 And many indeed of them believed, and of honourable women that were Gentiles, and of men not a few. Here’s the note on that from my Douay-Rheims NT.
11 “More noble”… The Jews of Berea are justly commended, for their eagerly embracing the truth, and searching the scriptures, to find out the texts alleged by the apostle: which was a far more generous proceeding than that of their countrymen at Thessalonica, who persecuted the preachers of the gospel, without examining the grounds they alleged for what they taught.
Now…this is often used by n-Cs/a-Cs to assert that the Bible is the final authority for all things, hence in support of the error of SS.

What they ignore is the context of the situation.

These were Jews hearing about Jesus as the Messiah for the first time. Where else would they have had to look to check this out? To any rational reader it’s like …“Well, DUH!”

This shows the difference between a literal reading and a literalist interpretation. John Martignoni explains this really well HERE. He also has an AWESOME MP3 download on Sola Scriptura that you shouldn’t miss.
As always, if ya need anything more, don’t hesitate to gimme a yell via PM or e-mail. [SIGN]I ain’t scared…😉 [/SIGN]
Pax Domiini sit semper vobiscum,
 
Roman Catholic,

Church Militant is on the right track. Your father-in-law is headed in the direction of Sola Scriptura. Besides the resources that Church Militant listed, there is a good article on Catholic Answers at

catholic.com/thisrock/1997/9703fea3.asp
  • Liberian
 
Others have pointed you to the Bereans in Acts. What is most interesting is that, even though Protestants constantly hold them up as models, they do not at all support the Protestant position!

What is the story of the Bereans? First, they had the true scriptures of their time (the OT). They also had the true gospel, preached by Apostles themselves. That is to say, they had the entire truth set before them. So what did they do? Some of them accepted the full and true gospel (along with some Gentiles, BTW). Others of the Bereans, presented the full and true gospel, rejected that gospel through their own private interpretation! They played by Protestant rules and ended up rejecting Christ!

The story of the Bereans is a fatal blow to the concept of Sola Scriptura, and to Protestantism as a whole.
 
Hey thanks for everyones help, I spent about an hour typing up a response (although I forgot to copy what I sent, hopefully he responds so I have what I wrote, even though it was basically what everyone here told me about the Bereans), I will post what he responds with.

Until next time guys
 
Actually, I kind of think that Acts 17:11 is a better source for Tradition than it is for Sola Scriptura. Luke is explaining that the Bereans used the Old Testament in order to confirm the kerygmatic preaching of the Good News by Paul.

The reason that Paul describes the Bereans as “more noble than those in Thessalonica” is because when the texts relevant to Christ were read to them “many” of them were were converted to Christ, whereas in Thessalonica, only “some” of them were.

If anything about sola Scriptura can be taken out of this text, I think it would have to be sola Old Testament. Because Christ was preached, not written about at this time.
 
Hey thanks for everyones help, I spent about an hour typing up a response (although I forgot to copy what I sent, hopefully he responds so I have what I wrote, even though it was basically what everyone here told me about the Bereans), I will post what he responds with.

Until next time guys
FYI, all of your sent emails should end up in your “Sent” folder. I’ve never seen an email program that did not do that.
 
FYI, all of your sent emails should end up in your “Sent” folder. I’ve never seen an email program that did not do that.
I got hotmail, and I dont think that messeage get sent to your sent folder unless you tell it to save it to your sent folder (Which I forgot to do this time :mad: ). Unless I just dont know what I am doing. Hopefully though he does respond to the email so I have back what I wrote.

thanks again
 
I got hotmail, and I dont think that messeage get sent to your sent folder unless you tell it to save it to your sent folder (Which I forgot to do this time :mad: ). Unless I just dont know what I am doing. Hopefully though he does respond to the email so I have back what I wrote.

thanks again
OK, just more proof that I don’t know everything. 🙂
 
I have no idea what he is talking about, anyone want to lend me a hand in this?

thanks
“Berean” is code for Sola Scriptura.

Being a “good Berean” means that you throw out everything that you can’t find in the Bible.

Of course, the actual Bereans didn’t find Jesus’ name in the Old Testament. In fact (despite being very familiar with the Old Testament already) they had never even heard of Jesus until Paul told them (think, oral teaching of the Church).

Now that they had the oral teaching, or “tradition” as we call it, of the Church, which they got from Paul, they were able to read the Scriptures (which they had read many times before) in a new light, and by combining the oral tradition of the Church (which they had received from Paul) with the written word of Scripture, they were able to come to know Jesus.

This was something that they had been unable to do, using Scripture Alone. (Repeat that three times.)

So it is kind of ironic that the Bereans (who needed oral tradition to supplement their scripture reading) have somehow become the poster children of the Sola Scriptura (Scripture alone) movement.
 
So any idea where he may be going with this?
The Berean Call is a “ministry” of Dave Hunt. He is a former Catholic, I believe.

As far as your FIL’s comments, the Bereans in the book of Acts were commended for searching the scriptures and being diligent in their learning.

I’d just tell your FIL that you thank him and that you intend to BE a Berean and search the scriptures for yourself… then do it.

in Christ
Steph
 
Hey I have a question, I wanted to send something short and sweet like he tried to do I was thinking about this:
According to the Bible what is the pillar and bulwark of the truth?
Ok so everyone know I am refering to 1 Tim 3 :15
But if I should be delayed, you should know how to behave in the household of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and foundation of truth.
What if he comes back and says that 1 Tim 3:15 is refering to Jesus as the pillar and foundation of truth? Because it says the Church of the living God, the pillar and foundation of truth.

Secondly what if he comes back that there is no way to tell that the Catholic Church is that Church? Like if he says, “ok which church then”? Or he says that all christians make up the “church”

I just want to have my bases covered if I send that.

Thanks
 
What if he comes back and says that 1 Tim 3:15 is refering to Jesus as the pillar and foundation of truth? Because it says the Church of the living God, the pillar and foundation of truth.
Thanks
Then you know he is being willfully ignorant. Paul wasn’t saying “know how to behave in Jesus”. He said know how to behave in the house of God - which is the church.

As for the claim that the church is all christians, Jesus only founded one church. It certainly isn’t one that was founded in the last century.

Then again, you might not want to engage him in much debate. His history is well established. I suggest your answers be brief and concise and let it go. Trust the Holy Spirit to reveal the truth to him but be ready with a defense of your faith as Peter tells us.
 
Hey guys here is what he wrote, its alittle over my head maybe someone could help? thanks:
Interesting isn’t it?, If no passage of scripture is of ones own interpretation then who’s is it? If the word of God is not His personal love letter to you who is It written too? It is 2 Peter not 1st and His word to us is in this scripture is simple like a personal relationship with the living God is. That no prophesy or written revelation of scripture came about by the prophets own interpretation or will, but men of old wrote and spoke as they were carried or lead by the Spirit of the living God within them. The scripture is telling us that they were the pen in Gods hand Amen?
Now will you try to make more of this. Again the idea conveyed is that just as the wind controls the sails of a boat, so also the breath of God controlled the writers of the bible. The end result was exactly what God intended. You would do good to do your best to present yourself to God as one approved, a workman who does not need to be ashamed and who correctly handles the word of truth. 2 Tim. 2:15. Jesus said " I have much to say to
you…But when he, the Spirit of truth, comes he will guide you into all truth. John 16:13. To the one who is surrendered to the Spirit of the living God, He the Holy Spirit is the one that teaches us. Through His word the bible He teaches us. Teachers of men can help with interpretation if they are correct in their interpretation but God is the one that teaches. His Spirit is the one who reveals truth to us. Interpretations of the Bible are like walking through a door and behind that door is another door and behind that another it goes deeper and deeper as the Spirit will
instruct…Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of
God. Heb.11:1…For the word of God is alive and active not dead pages in a book…Able to divide between soul and spirit, bone and marrow it judges the thoughts and intentions of the heart. Heb. 4:12. So to say that no passage of scripture
is of ones own interpretation is in error of the scripture it’s self. Is
that not proper context? Be like the Bereans and study for yourself. Don’t just take any mans word on it. God will show you Him self if you truly want to know deep in your heart.God is Spirit and those who worship Him must worship Him in spirit and in truth. That is where revelation or revealing of His word or scriptures comes from.
Amen
 
These are about the only parts that are really worthy of response. The rest is just more rhetorical preaching.

One reason that this seems to go over your head is that it’s essentially nonsense.

The interpretations that he offers are largely poorly expressed disjointed thoughts that actually contradict his own case. (He would HATE talking to me, but he’d very likely say that I rely on human reason and not the fullness of the Spirit. The problem there is that I was a deacon of the Assembly of God and I am filled with the Holy Spirit, have spoken in tongues both as prophecy and prayer, and still today excercise some prophetic gifts of the Spirit. :eek: )
Through His word the bible He teaches us.
No argument from Catholics, just that we are smart enough to include the writings of the early church and the rest of Christianity’s 2,000 years history in order to insure that we “rightly divide the word of truth” I am forever telling other catholics to follow this verse of St. Paul’s 2nd letter to Timothy (2:15) which reads, “Carefully study to present thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly handling the word of truth.” One problem though. Did ya notice that St. Paul doesn’t tell Timothy to only study the scriptures?:eek: I discovered this myself in reading my Bible.
Teachers of men can help with interpretation if they are correct in their interpretation
but God is the one that teaches.This is where he really starts getting into theological trouble. He offers no measure as to how to discern when any given teacher is correct. Who is the authority for this? Him? What makes his interpretation more valid than mine or yours. I have a lot of Bibles and have read it many times and still am reading it again and again. So, am I qualified to offer authoritative and inerrant guidance as to the meaning of any given passage? See the messed up logic here? The Catholic interpretations of the Bible are based both on the original languages and the ECF’s writings that tell us what they learned directly from the apostles. Polycarp, Ignatius of Antioch and the Didache are excellent examples of very informative early church writings since they date from the late first and early second century and are verifiably Christian. (Unlike the Gnostic writings which are verifiably NOT.)
His Spirit is the one who reveals truth to us.
Catholics would agree with this. However, you can simply point out that the Holy Spirit’s leading is precisely why you and your wife are Catholic. He can babble his head off, but he cannot refute that…though you can rest assured that he will try. In fact…he runs afoul of a very important passage of scripture here. Watch… 1st Corinthians 14 says, "29: Let two or three prophets speak, and let the others weigh what is said. What “others”? He’s speaking of the church. And since the church has already dealt with the errors of the reformers, it has also dealt with the errors of all their subsequent step-children as well, in this case Sola Scriptura.

Here he’s off his own topic since the fact is that the issue of correct authoritative interpretation is not all that related to the idea of SS itself, but even so…he’s in theological trouble here because he cannot validly assert that his interpretations are correct since he does not consult (or perhaps even consider valid! :eek: ) the ECF nor the history of the Christian faith.
Interpretations of the Bible are like walking through a door and behind that door is another door and behind that another it goes deeper and deeper as the Spirit will instruct.
Interesting…but actually nothing more than rhetorical irrelevence. It’s his opinion…big deal.
Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of God.
Here he’s messed up his own case again because that verse (Romans 10:17) plainly says that faith comes by what? Hearing, right? Not written…do you see where that leads? If one has to be able to read a Bible to be saved then there will be alot more folks in hell than some n-Cs think because (even today) not everyone is literate…but everyone comprehends their spoken language, don’t they? Consider the low literacy levels of most people throughout human history. How was the Gospel spread? The printing press didn’t come along until 1447, so there weren’t Chick tracts or even many reasonably affordable Bibles to be had until after that. :hmmm: His passage just doesn’t wash, does it?
(Cont’d)
 
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