Neo-Catechumenal Way

[cyejbv]

chief714, that post which you are quoting is more than 3 years old. … and don’t waste your time replying to 3 year old posts of total idiots.

nagyszakall,
play nice. name calling isn’t polite, and it’s a good way to make sure someone reports your post to those mean ol’ moderators.

And besides, as difficult as it can be to abide by what we consider idiot-rantings, try to disagree charitably.

***“A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another. By this all men will know that you are my disciples, if you love one another.” ***John 13:34-35

Pax!

 

[chief714]

Dauphin;3586638:

The fact that such a movement is even being tolerated demonstrates the insanity in the Church. It should be crushed by the Vicar of Christ with all the force he can muster. At the very least, its liturgy should be suppressed and relegated to the schismatic churches where it belongs.

[/qote] and what movement would that be Dauphin? Why do you have such hate for the Neocatechuminal way?

wow…!!! who is it that accuses the brethren?
How could you say something so harmful? So hurtful. I don’t understand your distasteful remarks. Maybe you should pull the log out of your own eye before you attempt to pull a splinter out of your brothers.

my bad. It just came across in my email as a recent post… Or at least I thought. My bad

 

[nagyszakall]

cyejbv, there is a big difference between politeness and charity; and of the latter you see very little in this thread. Therefore, I hope you can forgive me for lacking in the former.

 

[Friar_David_O.Carm]

Our Eucharist & Word (Liturgy) have an EXTREME REVERENCE to Christ & our Holy Father.

I hope I am misunderstanding your perspective but there is no “Our Eucharist”. It belongs to the Church and all the faithful.

It is my understanding that the Way excludes those who are not of the Way from the celebration of the Eucharist that they do for their members.

 

[nagyszakall]

It is my understanding that the Way excludes those who are not of the Way from the celebration of the Eucharist that they do for their members.

And where did you get that understanding?
You don’t have to answer if it’s embarrassing.

 

[Friar_David_O.Carm]

And where did you get that understanding?
You don’t have to answer if it’s embarrassing.

From a seminarian who has experience with the Way as well as some parishioners in parishes where the Way is active but who are not members.

 

[nagyszakall]

Well, that sounds like, “my neighbor told me, so it must be true…”
I guess they must have made an exception when they let Blessed John Paul II preside.

 

[Friar_David_O.Carm]

Well, that sounds like, “my neighbor told me, so it must be true…”
I guess they must have made an exception when they let Blessed John Paul II preside.

So you discount anything told by you firsthand from people who experience something?

This is not someone told someone who told me, this is directly from those who have experienced it. People I trust.

It seems that you just wish to discount this without providing any information to refute what I have been told by those who have experienced it.

Also it is important to note that this sort of testimony is not “hearsay” as it is from the first hand accounts of those who have experienced it. It would be accepted by any court as first hand evidence.

 

[tafan]

It is my understanding that the Way excludes those who are not of the Way from the celebration of the Eucharist that they do for their members.

I am almost positive this was one of the practices the Vatican made them stop several years ago. Their liturgy must now be open, can no longer be “by invitation only”. Also, I was told that they are required to attend a regular parish mass once a month.

 

[nagyszakall]

So you discount anything told by you firsthand from people who experience something?

Well, I didn’t say that. You did. Besides, you talked to them, I didn’t. I only saw someone’s scribbling on a post on the internet under the username ByzCath: I don’t even know you, let alone those friends of yours; and, yes, I tend to be suspicious with things someone hears from someone else’s “first-hand” experience.

This is not someone told someone who told me, this is directly from those who have experienced it. People I trust. It seems that you just wish to discount this without providing any information to refute what I have been told by those who have experienced it.

Well, I don’t think I need to refute anything you wrote. In fact I am getting tired of this scribbling back and forth. Why don’t you examine your sources critically, read up on the issue and use common sense? The Holy See has spoken; they have a statute: camminoneocatecumenale.it/public/file/en_Statute2008.pdf
and there is a decree which approves it: camminoneocatecumenale.it/public/file/Decree%20for%20the%20approval%20of%20the%20Neocatechumenal%20Way%20English.pdf
the Holy See examined and approved what they say in their catechesis: camminoneocatecumenale.it/public/file/DecretoDirettorio.PDF
If in any of these you read that they are to “exclude] those who are not of the Way from the celebration of the Eucharist”, which is what you say that your understanding is from what you heard, then you know that even if what you heard is true (you know people misunderstand things many times) this cannot be a general practice, but an isolated incident. (By the way, I wonder what kind of first-hand experience your friend had of such exclusion… did they shove him out of the church or locked the door in front of him?)
However, your statement implies, that you talked to some people you “trust” (whatever that means for you), and made up your understanding about the “Way”.
“Cursed is the man who trusts in human beings” Jeremiah 17:5
See, I also know people who have first-hand experience, but I prefer to give you hard facts and reading material from which you can edify yourself better then from your friends.
You may think of me whatever you want, but I am a very biased person: I tend to heed what I hear from the Holy Father, the Holy See, and my bishop rather than someone else. And you know why? Because Christ promised that the Holy Spirit will guide them to the truth.
I won’t even comment on tafan who is “almost positive”, but if he/she had read the documents, would know that the mass which the neocatechumenals celebrate IS a regular parish mass, which they, like all able Catholics are to attend every Sunday and Holiday of obligation. (Statutes Art. 13, p. 2)
I think I wrote too much. I am taking a break from posting on this silly thread for a decade now. Hear from you in ten years… if we are still alive.

 

[Friar_David_O.Carm]

If you do not wish to enter into a discussion (or scribbling (whatever that is)) then why respond at all.

While my user name is byzcath you will notice more about me in my signature if you bother to fully read my posts.

Yes, the Vatican has approved of the Way as long as the proscribed corrections are in place but that approval does not mean that we must accept it in our own personal spiritual lives. It is one of many charims in the Church that one may avail themselves of.

I just spoke of the experiences of some, which you seem to discount out of hand without any comment.

tafan’s reply was much more constructive then yours.

I think it is time to move on to other threads.

God Bless.

 

[chief714]

It is my understanding that the Way excludes those who are not of the Way from the celebration of the Eucharist that they do for their members.

We do not exclude anyone from the Eucharists we celebrate. We just ask if brothers invite those outside of the way to inform them of our echos which are a moment of charity shared by our brothers in sisters. A lot of times things are shared that are VERY sensitive. To speak of these things that are shared with us outside of the Eucharist is a sin against charity and a very mortal sin and of course we want NO ONE in that predicament. Outside of that… All are welcome.

 

[ChrisRedfield47]

It is very clear to me that many people here are posting comments about the Neo-Catechumenal way that are simply lies. If u have not been a member then do not judge because u simply do not know. Neo-Cats are in full communion with Rome, and they are indeed moved by the Holy Spirit. This being posted by a person who was born with parents in the Neo-Catechumenal Way.

 

[chief714]

It is very clear to me that many people here are posting comments about the Neo-Catechumenal way that are simply lies. If u have not been a member then do not judge because u simply do not know. Neo-Cats are in full communion with Rome, and they are indeed moved by the Holy Spirit. This being posted by a person who was born with parents in the Neo-Catechumenal Way.

I converted 2 years ago from my protestant roots and was Born into my community like 2 months later.

 

[tafan]

We do not exclude anyone from the Eucharists we celebrate. We just ask if brothers invite those outside of the way to inform them of our echos which are a moment of charity shared by our brothers in sisters. A lot of times things are shared that are VERY sensitive. To speak of these things that are shared with us outside of the Eucharist is a sin against charity and a very mortal sin and of course we want NO ONE in that predicament. Outside of that… All are welcome.

Could you please clarify, can the NCW define something as grave matter? I understand that it is possible for gossip, slander, libel to be a mortal sin; but it sounds as if you are saying the teaching of the NCW is that any of the echos spoken of outside of the Euacharist is always a mortal sin. Something does not sound right? Are you saying the NCW is enforcing a discipline on its members (and anyone else present) by threat of mortal sin?

 

[Friar_David_O.Carm]

We do not exclude anyone from the Eucharists we celebrate. We just ask if brothers invite those outside of the way to inform them of our echos which are a moment of charity shared by our brothers in sisters. A lot of times things are shared that are VERY sensitive. To speak of these things that are shared with us outside of the Eucharist is a sin against charity and a very mortal sin and of course we want NO ONE in that predicament. Outside of that… All are welcome.

So are you saying that non-NCW members can only come if invited by a NCW member?

Could you please clarify, can the NCW define something as grave matter? I understand that it is possible for gossip, slander, libel to be a mortal sin; but it sounds as if you are saying the teaching of the NCW is that any of the echos spoken of outside of the Euacharist is always a mortal sin. Something does not sound right? Are you saying the NCW is enforcing a discipline on its members (and anyone else present) by threat of mortal sin?

Good question tafan.

I have an additional one. Where in the Mass does these “echos” occur? I looked in my Missal as well as the GIRM and can find nothing.

 

[tafan]

I converted 2 years ago from my protestant roots and was Born into my community like 2 months later.

I have nothing against the NCW, per se. We have a group at our parish and they seem very devout. I do hear terminology that is troubling at times. As Catholics, we are only “Born again” one time in our life, that is at our Baptism. Your post reminds me of when I have heard Charismatic Catholics have used the term Born in the Spirit to identify when they first started in a Charismatic movement. It is not Catholic terminology, yours: being Born into a NCW community, is clost to as bad, IMO. I would suggest never use the word born (especially with a capital letter) as it pertains to a religious experience, except when referring to Baptism. It leads to bad misunderstandings of our faith.

 

[Itari]

There seems to be a bit on tension growing from this thread.

Now there are different points that need to be made. The first regarding the Eucharist. It was never officially closed to outsiders, (I cannot speak for the cases where people have been asked to leave because those are individuals acting on their own initiative,) it was just not recommended for those who have not done the initial catechesis to attend because of the differences which are explained there. And it is possible the “Our Mass” meant the format in which it is done with all the differences rather than a possession of the sacrament.

The Echoes occur after the proclamation of the Gospel before the Homily (For Byzcath). Now the measure of privacy afforded to the things said in the echoes is a complicated matter of which prudence and charity are the measure of all things. People are recommended to give the same level of privacy as one would in a confession because of the consequences which speaking of anothers life may have.

Now everyone is welcome, it is announced in my parish bulletin and of different others i have been to. Now usually people who are not in the community realize that when they signed up for a 2 hour mass they usually end up leaving half way, before the Eucharist begins, so it is not recommended for those not involved to go. Some interpreted these recommendations as strict laws and so kept beating people who wanted to go over the head with a stick, but the mass is a public event, therefore there cannot be such a thing as a private mass as pointed out by the Holy See.

This of being born in the way is more of a manner of speaking i would think (I nor anyone i know uses it). The only time it is used is when a new community is formed, in this case formed and born are used interchangeably, but it carries no particular connotation as would a Born again Christian.

In the manner used by ChrisRedfield47 im sure he means that his actual birth occurred after his parents were born in the community. (I’m sure there was no need to point this one out, but for thoroughness’ sake.)

I hope that clarified a few things.

 

[Friar_David_O.Carm]

There seems to be a bit on tension growing from this thread.

Now there are different points that need to be made. The first regarding the Eucharist. It was never officially closed to outsiders, (I cannot speak for the cases where people have been asked to leave because those are individuals acting on their own initiative,) it was just not recommended for those who have not done the initial catechesis to attend because of the differences which are explained there. And it is possible the “Our Mass” meant the format in which it is done with all the differences rather than a possession of the sacrament.

The Echoes occur after the proclamation of the Gospel before the Homily (For Byzcath). Now the measure of privacy afforded to the things said in the echoes is a complicated matter of which prudence and charity are the measure of all things. People are recommended to give the same level of privacy as one would in a confession because of the consequences which speaking of anothers life may have.

This is where I perceive a problem. There is no “Our Mass”. There is only one rite of the Mass with two forms, the Ordinary Form and the Extraordinary Form.

To require a “speical” catechesis to understand the differences and having the “echos” seem out of place as there are no differences nor are the “echos” called for in the GIRM. IMHO the Mass is the Mass and should not be tampered with. Maybe the “echos” should occur outside of the Mass.

Or is there a special rite for the Way as there is a Dominician Rite and a Carmelite Rite, and such?

 

[tafan]

So I am to assume that “born into the community” is common terminology in the NCW? What exactly does it mean?