Neo-Paganism Q&A

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cyberwolf001

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My faith comes up now and again in threads so here ya go peoples. Ask my any questions you got. Just follow the golden rule don’t ask any you’d hate to have asked of you and don’t ask in a manner you’d hate people to ask you about yours.
 
Kindly explain why you believe your religion to contain the ultimate truth and reality of life. Also, if you would tell what are the good fruits that your beliefs and practice bear? How does being a Neo-pagan make you a better person, and how would a world full of Neo-pagans be a better place? Thank you, I am very curious to hear!

Pax et caritas,
Frank
 
What is the main point or goal of your religion? What do you hope to achieve by practicing it?

What deities do you personally worship? What do you hope to achieve by this?

What does your religion have to say about an afterlife?

Who is the main prophet in your religion?
 
Kindly explain why you believe your religion to contain the ultimate truth and reality of life.
I see Paganism as our natural state. The only times it is ever totally opprsed involves military action and laws to keep it held down. Once those are gone it comes right back up and goes forward.
Also, if you would tell what are the good fruits that your beliefs and practice bear?
Some of these will be insulting to a Catholic. I make no apologies for that, our faiths are different and take different views on the world, and this is just the effect it has had upon me as compared to when I was a Catholic:

I no longer feel guilty for being happy (I was once told you can be happy or Catholic by my former Priest but never both and only a very immoral person can by happy).

I no long feel as lonely.

I am more laid back and less likely to take offense at criticisms of myself, my politics and my religion. Even less likely to feel like a persecuted minority when my views are questioned.

My life in general is slowly improving, my health, my wealth and over all I am happier.
How does being a Neo-pagan make you a better person
The emphasis on enjoying life in moderation, the focus on treating others fairly, the healthy approach to sex. The focus on self improvement in body, mind and spirit.

The ethic codes are not based on inflexible thou shalt nots. But rather principles that can be used to help people decide how best to act in any situation.

This wont make sense to people that are use to working out of a black an white paradigm however.
and how would a world full of Neo-pagans be a better place?
Neo-Pagans don’t believe we have to be the only faith. That said a world full of Pagans I feel would be better as the enviroment would be treated better, efforts to help the poor would be more than just an effort to convert them but to actually eliminate poverty once and for all.

Today Paganism would be a boom to science and no longer hold it chained down with dogmas.

I could of course go on.
What is the main point or goal of your religion?
There isn’t a goal. But the main point is the relationship between ourselves and the spirits.
What do you hope to achieve by practicing it?
A closer relationship with the spirits.
What deities do you personally worship?
More than we can list here. Not be snarky just a statement of fact.
What do you hope to achieve by this?
It’s not always about what you can get.
What does your religion have to say about an afterlife?
Alot. Rebirths, other realms. The list is as long as there are gods just about.
Who is the main prophet in your religion?
We are a non-prophet faith in that sense 😉

The profit of this faith however is in the field of writing. Pagans love to read as a general rule.
 
Kindly explain why you believe your religion to contain the ultimate truth and reality of life.
Pagans usually do not believe in an “ultimate truth” or a single way to get close to it.

This was written by Quintus Aurelius Symmachus, one of the last defenders of Roman paganism in the 4th century (relatio III, 10): “We ask, then, for peace for the gods of our fathers and of our country. It is just that all worship should be considered as one. We look on the same stars, the sky is common, the same world surrounds us. What difference does it make by what pains each seeks the truth? We cannot attain to so great a secret by one road.”
 
Some of these will be insulting to a Catholic. I make no apologies for that, our faiths are different and take different views on the world, and this is just the effect it has had upon me as compared to when I was a Catholic
Trust me, any well-formed Catholic is more than used to disagreement. Very little is insulting to me, certainly we can discuss differences of opinion without taking things to heart, no? 🙂
I no longer feel guilty for being happy (I was once told you can be happy or Catholic by my former Priest but never both and only a very immoral person can by happy).
You were fed lies, and this is in no way Catholic. I am so sorry to hear that a priest could say something like that to you, and at one time I shared these unfortunate misconceptions. What is it that made you happy, that you would feel guilty doing as a Catholic? I’m a recent convert, and I can tell you that indulgence in drinking, smoking, sex, were all a regular part of my life. And let me tell you, there is a big difference between temporary pleasures and happiness. Following the morals of the Church has made me the happiest and most peaceful I have ever been (and they are laws of love, that lead you to the best life you can live, they are not arbitrary restrictions. Why would the Church simply want to impose unfair rules on people?)
I no long feel as lonely.
This one I don’t really understand. Maybe as a Christian you had a hard time relating to people and finding friends? That’s understandable. I had a million friends in my past way of life, but I think I was more lonely then. Sure, I had a lot of people to hang around and talk to, but how close were we? How much of ourselves were we really able to reveal to each other? My friends now, we know each other intimately, and I now understand what friendship is.
I am more laid back and less likely to take offense at criticisms of myself, my politics and my religion. Even less likely to feel like a persecuted minority when my views are questioned.
I can understand that because your views are likely more laid-back and compatible with modern, mainstream thought. Sure, my views as a Catholic are considered “extreme, radical” take your pick of offended terms. But, I completely understand that the Church’s views are based in love and not oppression. They might be hard stances, but they are the right ones. When people disagree with me, I’m hardly surprised. But, I feel we should all be able to express ourselves (and hear others do the same) with complete tolerance for differing opinions, as well as a firm understanding and belief of WHY we believe what we do. I think this is why you have observed so many uptight, uncomfortable Christians, because they have a hard time understanding and explaining the views of the Church, and find themselves frustrated when people disagree. Of course, conversations can get often get tense, but why? I know and love what I believe, and the beauty of what it can do for one’s life when understood and practiced, so why would dissent bother me? If anything, I’m sad that people mistake this beauty for something oppressive, but hey, we all have our free will, right? Expressed with understanding and love, the Catholic faith is completely different from what I think you have perceived it to be. I am sorry you have experienced that.
My life in general is slowly improving, my health, my wealth and over all I am happier.
I am glad to hear that, happiness and health are wonderful things. Can I ask why you lacked these before your neo-pagan religion, and why you feel you have grown in these areas because of your faith? I too have grown in these areas (minus wealth, as I am a student and intend to be a priest, I have very little interest in my own wealth, as long as I am fed, clothed and sheltered, what more do I want?)
The emphasis on enjoying life in moderation, the focus on treating others fairly, the healthy approach to sex. The focus on self improvement in body, mind and spirit.

The ethic codes are not based on inflexible thou shalt nots. But rather principles that can be used to help people decide how best to act in any situation.
I would hope that most religions when practiced correctly would emphasize a life of moderation and a focus on treating others fairly. Can I ask what the neo-pagan healthy approach to sex is? The Church is so often criticized on this point, as if we hate the sacred act that God created? It’s possibly the most beautiful act in the world, and we treat it as such, something reserved for those who completely give themselves to another. I have never seen how this is extreme or unhealthy, but I would love to hear your take.

As for the ethics code, the 10 Commandments, which I assume are the “thou shalt nots” you refer to, span wider than Christianity, but I would say those are more based on a natural law, things we can universally accept as good for people as a whole. Please correct me if you disagree. I wouldn’t say the Church is inflexible, we have the free will to do whatever we want, but it stands that no matter the given situation, how one felt at the time, the rationalization, certain things are never a good decision for humanity, no matter how you spin it. I would be very interested to hear more detail on the neo-pagan thoughts on morality.

Thank you for bearing with me in this long response, but I would like to know some more detail into what you believe. I hope I have done a decent job at showing you that uninformed Catholics do not represent the Catholic Church, and that we are a lot more moderate, fair and loving than we are often given credit for. I appreciate the discussion, glad to hear from you!

Pax et caritas,
Frank
 
Trust me, any well-formed Catholic is more than used to disagreement. Very little is insulting to me, certainly we can discuss differences of opinion without taking things to heart, no?
You’d think so, but look at my posting history here. Heck I got threatened by the mods with a ban for posting to much stuff and being to good at argueing the apologists. Something every Protestant on this board is familiar with.

Mind you this just renforces my view of “what lie can long withstand exposure to the truth?”
You were fed lies, and this is in no way Catholic. I am so sorry to hear that a priest could say something like that to you, and at one time I shared these unfortunate misconceptions. What is it that made you happy, that you would feel guilty doing as a Catholic?
Food, video games, sleeping in on my days off, going to the movies, anime, the occasional drink (never to the point of being drunk), classic comedies like the Marx brothers, Dungeons and Dragons, American Football and rugby I could go on but you get the idea.

I was told repeatedly that I needed to stop this and spend my time reading the writings of the Church fathers and saints. In said writings it is made clear and reenforced that unless you lived like a cloistered religious you are going to hell. An even inside of marriage sex is at best a neccisary evil.

I good example being most Saints took a celibacy oath and that the holiest way to spend a wedding night is to NOT have sex but fast and pray in solitude from your new spouse and the holiest marriages are Josephite marriages where the spouses are married but celibate.

This is of course why people think Catholics have an issue with sex. I could name on one hand the number of sexually active Saints and couldn’t name all the non-sexually active ones and there is NO WAY I could name all the arguments Catholics use to explain this away.

Oh and they (sexually active saints) are Juan Deigo, The Little Flowers Parents and Sir Thomas Morre.
I’m a recent convert, and I can tell you that indulgence in drinking, smoking, sex, were all a regular part of my life.
Never smoke, rarely drink. An one of my ex-girlfriends and her circle of friends (all Catholic) love mocking me for still being a virgin.
And let me tell you, there is a big difference between temporary pleasures and happiness. Following the morals of the Church has made me the happiest and most peaceful I have ever been (and they are laws of love, that lead you to the best life you can live, they are not arbitrary restrictions. Why would the Church simply want to impose unfair rules on people?)
I don’t know why but they sure come across as unfair and unloving. I mean we are talking an eternity of unending torment over even one mortal sin. No matter what excuses you use to justify it, that is horrible. An had me sick with fear 24/7.

When you get down to it infact I believe if hell was removed from Christianity the entire church would die out besides a few hold outs.
This one I don’t really understand. Maybe as a Christian you had a hard time relating to people and finding friends? That’s understandable.
Bevlibe it or not my Christian friends didn’t lke me talking to there friends. I am always told they are too busy to hang out, then learn yes they did go hang out with a large group of their friends.
I had a million friends in my past way of life, but I think I was more lonely then. Sure, I had a lot of people to hang around and talk to, but how close were we? How much of ourselves were we really able to reveal to each other? My friends now, we know each other intimately, and I now understand what friendship is.
I’ve made a nice spectrum in the Pagan community. From close intimate friends to the occasional aquaintnence. An meeting more almost every day.
I can understand that because your views are likely more laid-back and compatible with modern, mainstream thought.
You’d be suprised. Mainstream American expects you to be a mainline nominal Christian. When it is learned your a Polytheist oh man do folks get shocked.
 
Sure, my views as a Catholic are considered “extreme, radical” take your pick of offended terms. But, I completely understand that the Church’s views are based in love and not oppression. They might be hard stances, but they are the right ones. When people disagree with me, I’m hardly surprised.
I can relate. My fellow Pagans dislike many of my view points and in someways they run counter to Pagan convientinal wisdom.
I am glad to hear that, happiness and health are wonderful things. Can I ask why you lacked these before your neo-pagan religion, and why you feel you have grown in these areas because of your faith?
Sleeping better at night because I am no longer freaked out about hell most likely has a large chunk to do with it. Plus the fact I do have a nice social network growing around of caring friends, one even bugs me to make sure I’ve taken my thyroid pills and am looking after myself, has to have played a large part in this. These are people I’d have never meet as a Catholic, when I suffer instead of going on about it being a wonderful gift these friends work to help lift me out of it.
I would hope that most religions when practiced correctly would emphasize a life of moderation and a focus on treating others fairly. Can I ask what the neo-pagan healthy approach to sex is?
Moderation, don’t force yourself on others, use protection. It is basicly the same approach as secular society uses.
The Church is so often criticized on this point, as if we hate the sacred act that God created? It’s possibly the most beautiful act in the world, and we treat it as such, something reserved for those who completely give themselves to another. I have never seen how this is extreme or unhealthy, but I would love to hear your take.
I have addressed this above. I’d add that Josemaria founder of Opus Dei started a massive stirr when he said sex was more than just giving into the flesh.
As for the ethics code, the 10 Commandments, which I assume are the “thou shalt nots” you refer to, span wider than Christianity, but I would say those are more based on a natural law, things we can universally accept as good for people as a whole. Please correct me if you disagree.
Well the 10 Commandents where blasted and replaced by 10 others that stated worship Jehova and only Jehova. Then there is the endless list of not to does in the catachism some good most of it relating to love God and nothing else.
I wouldn’t say the Church is inflexible, we have the free will to do whatever we want, but it stands that no matter the given situation, how one felt at the time, the rationalization, certain things are never a good decision for humanity, no matter how you spin it. I would be very interested to hear more detail on the neo-pagan thoughts on morality.
I’d say eternal torment as a threat is more like having a pistol leveled to your head and being told “Love me or go to hell” Literally. Pardon the language but that is how Jesus’ love message always seemed, and when you stip it down that IS the moral message.
Thank you for bearing with me in this long response, but I would like to know some more detail into what you believe. I hope I have done a decent job at showing you that uninformed Catholics do not represent the Catholic Church, and that we are a lot more moderate, fair and loving than we are often given credit for. I appreciate the discussion, glad to hear from you!
Pax et caritas,
Frank
No problem,
-Cyberwolf
 
How did you overcome the fear of hell?
the salvation of the church has left me suicidal every day of my life. I will never have relationships because I am so depraved … HOW did you get out? did you have help from your pagan friends?
Did jesus come after you when you left? did you get hurt?
I have left in spirit but I remain in body. I still drag myself to church every sunday because i’ll get panic attacks if I don’t. Jesus punishes me and comes after me.
Did he do that to you? Do your pagan gods protect you from him?
I eagerly await your answer, it might help me escape.
 
How did you overcome the fear of hell?
The help of my Gods, meditation and realizing it was a tool of fear nothing more.
the salvation of the church has left me suicidal every day of my life. I will never have relationships because I am so depraved … HOW did you get out?
Trust in the Gods and help from Pagan friends.
did you have help from your pagan friends?
Yes they did.
Did jesus come after you when you left? did you get hurt?
Yes and Thor protected me.
I have left in spirit but I remain in body. I still drag myself to church every sunday because i’ll get panic attacks if I don’t. Jesus punishes me and comes after me.
Did he do that to you? Do your pagan gods protect you from him?
I eagerly await your answer, it might help me escape.
Thor protects me.
 
I asked these questions of you over on the TC forum and you did not reply.

I told you that I was a medievalist (Society for Creative Anachronism) and that I numbered among my friends, neo-paganists of mostly Norse and Celtic mythos. I also told you that my professional education was in history and anthropology.

I am not going to take a theological tact on you. My questions come from a strictly historical and anthropological take. I have had this very same conversation over convivial fires at SCA events way back when I was in grad school. Brother Hrolf is not going to take his mace and bop you over the head :D.

Let’s deal with my Celtic ancestors first. (I’m not of Norse ancestry, I just happened to fall in love with Poul Anderson’s Hrolf Kraki’s Saga which is where I got my Anglo-Dane persona (if that makes any sense to you). I am of Irish, Scot, and Breton ancestry.

Historically speaking, the great Druid academy at Anglesey (Ynys Mon) was wiped out by the Romans. Druidism was a mnemontic religion meaning that memory was relied upon to pass upon the faith This event created a huge gap within British druidic religion in a time when Britons and Bretons were converting to Christianity. The Sasenach invasions a few centuries later sent my Breton ancestors (most likely Christian at the time) over to Brittany.

In Ireland, St. Patrick did a superb job of religious syncretism and adopted all that was good from Druidism in Ireland into Christianity. As an Irish Catholic anthropologist, I am more than aware of just how much he adapted to Catholicism. How could I help not be aware of that?

Let us turn our attention to the Scots. There weren’t any Scots in Scotland until the Dal Riada Celts (after St. Patrick) migrated across the Irish Channel from Ireland to Scotland. Who was in Scotland before the Celts? The Picts? Exactly how much do we know about the Picts?

Pope St. Gregory the Great gave instructions to St. Augustine of Cantwaraburh (Cantebury) to adopt and adapt all that was good about Anglo/Saxon/Jute culture in their conversion.

Yes, I know that Woden = Odin. Thunor = Thor. And, hey, I can even go all the way back to ancient Indo-European times when there were 12 gods and I can name you pretty much all of their counterparts in Indo-European cultures.

I also know that there was an upsurge and interest in other cultures and religions in Victorian England in the 19th century. Neither the Celts nor the Norse left extensive descriptions of their religions. OK, the Welsh did a good job with the Mabinogion (which is lovely) but that is their mythology not their religious practices.

From what I can observe, modern neo-paganism is based upon Victorian precepts which have absolutely nothing to do with historical reality.

As I said, I have had this discussion over many a campfire and have never gotten an adequate reply. Shoot, I could take the novels of H. P. Lovecraft and construct a religion based upon Cthulhu. Given the fact that the religion of many of our ancestors met its demise well over a thousand years ago, what assurances do you have that what you are doing is what our ancestors did? I have that assurance as a Roman Catholic.
 
I can understand why NOT believing in hell can bring a “sense” of comfort and help ya sleep well at night. But that ONE nagging thought would bug me…WHAT IF I AM WRONG?:eek:

Its easy to put out of one’s mind anything that would be disturbing or uncomfortable, but what if all that Christianity says is RIGHT concerning hell?,

Eternity is a very veryyyy long time to be wrong.

I will pray for you as I do my adult daughter who considers herself a Wiccan.
 
I can understand why NOT believing in hell can bring a “sense” of comfort and help ya sleep well at night. But that ONE nagging thought would bug me…WHAT IF I AM WRONG?:eek:

Its easy to put out of one’s mind anything that would be disturbing or uncomfortable, but what if all that Christianity says is RIGHT concerning hell?
What if Muslims are RIGHT concerning their hell? Then you are wrong and go to hell, doesn’t that bug you? If not, then you know why non-Christians are not concenred with your hell.
 
What if Muslims are RIGHT concerning their hell? Then you are wrong and go to hell, doesn’t that bug you? If not, then you know why non-Christians are not concenred with your hell.
You should talk with the Muslims on this board. That should be enough to convince anyone it is wrong.
 
You should talk with the Muslims on this board. That should be enough to convince anyone it is wrong.
Well, I won’t argue that, but that is not the point. The point is, why should a non-Christian fear parts of the Christian mythology. A Christian does not fear the Titans or the Hrimthurs, why should a pagan fear the devil or hell?
 
Well, I won’t argue that, but that is not the point. The point is, why should a non-Christian fear parts of the Christian mythology. A Christian does not fear the Titans or the Hrimthurs, why should a pagan fear the devil or hell?
To be honest I don’t think anyone should live by fear of hellfire. If you base the faith around the punishments then everything is being done for the wrong reason. Should a man avoid committing murder because he will spend a large chunk of his remaining life in prison?

But I do get your point, although in this case the individual in question seems to have turned away because of that threat, rather than in spite of it.
 
To be honest I don’t think anyone should live by fear of hellfire. If you base the faith around the punishments then everything is being done for the wrong reason. Should a man avoid committing murder because he will spend a large chunk of his remaining life in prison?
👍 Exactly.
But I do get your point, although in this case the individual in question seems to have turned away because of that threat, rather than in spite of it.
Understandable .
I know quite a lot neopagans, Wiccans and Asatru, some of them were never Christians, and Hell is nothing they think about at all. It is as unreal to them as Asgard is to a Christian.
 
To be honest I don’t think anyone should live by fear of hellfire. If you base the faith around the punishments then everything is being done for the wrong reason. Should a man avoid committing murder because he will spend a large chunk of his remaining life in prison?

But I do get your point, although in this case the individual in question seems to have turned away because of that threat, rather than in spite of it.
I too think there is something wrong with a faith that is basically “fire insurance”.🙂
 
How did you overcome the fear of hell?
the salvation of the church has left me suicidal every day of my life. I will never have relationships because I am so depraved … HOW did you get out? did you have help from your pagan friends?
Did jesus come after you when you left? did you get hurt?
I have left in spirit but I remain in body. I still drag myself to church every sunday because i’ll get panic attacks if I don’t. Jesus punishes me and comes after me.
Did he do that to you? Do your pagan gods protect you from him?
I eagerly await your answer, it might help me escape.
I am not sure where to start or what to say. Please do not take offense when I plead with you to seek help. Would you consider sitting down with a priest and try to explain to him just what is going on inside of you. In the mean time there are several things that you must understand.

First of all, Jesus will never come after you to punish you. He has given His very life for you. His love for you is beyond comprehension. His only desire for you is that you spend eternity with Him, to share intimately in the inner life of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit. HE LOVES YOU!

Pagan gods can no more save you than a bag of rocks can. They don’t exist. More to the point, you certainly don’t need to be saved FROM Jesus. You need to be saved from someone else and his name is Satan and he is very real. The lie you have been told is from him, the father of lies. He prowls about the world seeking whom he may devour. You need to run to JESUS. Only he can protect you.

I guess what I’m saying is that you have everything completely backwards and you are in danger. Those in hell have chosen to be in hell, it isn’t Jesus who sends them. You will be in my prayers tonight. I wish you inner peace and deliverance from your stress and panic. I don’t think this particular thread is helpful for you. You are being mislead. I say this out of serious concern for you.

God bless you.
 
Cyberwolf,

Thank you for your sharing and being so open. Bless you! I see you reflect on Catholics’ attitudes towards many facets of life…we all have our own personal
hang-up’s…

I think, though, repeating somewhat the previous post, that it is more the personal encounter with Jesus…

The church is the Bride…but we are all broken people…our encounter with Jesus requires daily renewal…daily renewal with those in relationship with us…irregardless if they think like us or not…

It is all about Jesus…
 
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