Neo-Paganism Q&A

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I asked these questions of you over on the TC forum and you did not reply.
I read this before and having looked it over again I can’t really make heads or tales of this block of text. Exactly wha are you asking me? 🤷

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Your holy scriputres and the writings of your Church and Saints tell a different story.
Pagan gods can no more save you than a bag of rocks can. They don’t exist.
I disagree strongly. The Pagan gods help me constantly and get me out of jams. An appear to and talk to me often.
I guess what I’m saying is that you have everything completely backwards and you are in danger. Those in hell have chosen to be in hell, it isn’t Jesus who sends them.
I believe it was the writings of Faustina Kowalska mention souls going to hell via no fault of there own. Trying to recall just who said it, I think it had to do with Priests doing confession wrong or falling asleep for a portion of it unknown to the penitent.
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These are fun questions, so I’ll take a shot:

**What is the main point or goal of your religion? What do you hope to achieve by practicing it? **

The central goals of Pagan religion involve a classic triad of human goals, often described as “Health, Wealth and Wisdom”. The point of religion is to obtain the blessing of the Gods and spirits, and by that blessing to grow in happiness and prosperity, both personally, and as communities.

Health and wealth (i.e. prosperity) are simple enough. Wisdom includes all the things we might think of as ‘spiritual’ goals - inspiration, insight, discernment the experience of the divine presence, ‘enlightenment’ are all goals available in Pagan ways.

Since we don’t believe in a fallen world, or that humans are intrinsically alienated from the divine and its blessings, we don’t see a need for ‘salvation’. Those who wish for high spiritual experiences have options, but such experiences aren’t considered mandatory for being a ‘good’ Pagan, they’re just options for those who seek such things.

As to the afterlife, we don’t think that there is punishment for ordinary folks - maybe for truly awful evildoers, but that’s almost nobody. Generally we expect the afterlife to take care of itself, and we focus on living well and doing good.

**What deities do you personally worship? What do you hope to achieve by this? **

The Gods of my house include the Hearth and Wisdom Mother, The Lord of Wisdom, and several others. By entering into a relationship with them, I expect to receive their blessings (see above) and also, by exposing my own spirit to theirs, to grow in spiritual wisdom and power.

**What does your religion have to say about an afterlife? **

See above. Many Pagans hold with reincarnation, others expect to wind up in a ‘land of the dead’ that will be similar to this life, but without the pains and stresses of matter. We don’t assume that all mortals have the same fate in the afterlife- some may simply live in the Otherworld, some may join the retinue of a God, some may reincarnate - there are many options.

Who is the main prophet in your religion?

Pagan religions have no single founder, and we don’t look for ‘prophets’. We assume that all religions are human artifacts, created by us, perhaps with the help of the Gods and spirits, to allow humans to create and maintain relationship with the divine. As human artifacts we don’t see religion as ancient, eternal and unchanging, but as conditional, based on the needs of the age and peoples in which it works.

Paganism has many leaders, most of them local. Local variants arise regularly, and this is understood as being as natural as local variants of birds or trees.
 
Response to uglygal–Part 1 of 2
How did you overcome the fear of hell?
the salvation of the church has left me suicidal every day of my life. I will never have relationships because I am so depraved … HOW did you get out? did you have help from your pagan friends?
Did jesus come after you when you left? did you get hurt?
I have left in spirit but I remain in body. I still drag myself to church every sunday because i’ll get panic attacks if I don’t. Jesus punishes me and comes after me.
Did he do that to you? Do your pagan gods protect you from him?
I eagerly await your answer, it might help me escape.
uglygal,

I share Steve’s concern for you and agree that you are being deceived. Satan and his demons can take on many forms. Satan is, indeed, the father of lies. I would definitely fear whatever is coming after you, but I am certain it is not Jesus.

It sounds like there is a battle for you soul right now. You are torn between holding fast to Christ, who is the author of our salvation; and abandoning Christ by yielding to Satan and the lies he whispers in your ear.

I spent several years working with Satanic cult survivors, trying to break the bondage of the cult. I will never forget the things I witnessed, and the things they revealed. If you fall deeply enough in Satanism, you will enter a world of darkness, one filled with ritual torture and even human sacrifice. I have lived in several different countries and numerous states in the U.S–so I will not break any confidentiality by revealing where I worked with these Satanic cult survivors.

There are many Satanist “wanttobes,” who happily go about their rituals. But once you find your way into serious Satanism; you will experience “Hell on earth,” in the things that will be done to you; and the things you will be forced to do to others. Cult survivors told us one of the things that works in their favor is that even when someone exposes the rituals; most people refuse to believe that such horrific acts are actually happening in their communities. So, the magnitude of the Satanic atrocities actually works in their favor.

What I will say to you, uglygal, is that when Jesus does come to you; I have no doubt it will be to pick you up and carry you upon His back, and gently reunite you with His flock.

As for the fear/threat of Hell, this is a quote from one of my recent Posts on Thread: “Do we know for a fact we are saved”
One of the reasons I am so bothered by the use of the threat of Hell to “win converts for Christ” (as if any of us really have the power to do that) is that it seems insulting to Christ. **It’s as if people can’t trust the message and call of Christ–so they decide to “help” the cause of salvation by using fear tactics.
**
Those fear tactics defeat the message and great love demonstrated by our Lord. God loved us so much, He sent His Son as the Word Incarnate. Christ took on a human body and walked among us. He preached, taught, healed the sick, raised the dead, and demonstrated love in a way that is difficult for us to comprehend.

Christ loved us so much that He suffered humiliation and torment and an agonizing death, taking upon Himself the sins of humanity. As he suffered on the cross, He asked God to forgive those who sent Him to the cross. What love does mankind know that compares to this? Every moment of His life, down to His last breath, was a testament to love, truth, and mercy. Christ conquered death. He made our reconciliation to God possible. He offers us eternal life.

Christ said He will draw all people to Himself.
**John 12 (ESV): **32 And I, when I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all people to myself." 33 He said this to show by what kind of death he was going to die.

Christ’s “one act of righteousness leads to justification and life for all men.”
Romans 5:14-19 (English Standard Version):
14Yet death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over those whose sinning was not like the transgression of Adam, who was a type of the one who was to come.

15But the free gift is not like the trespass. For if many died through one man’s trespass, **much more have the grace of God and the free gift by the grace of that one man Jesus Christ abounded for many.
**
16And the free gift is not like the result of that one man’s sin. For the judgment following one trespass brought condemnation, but the free gift following many trespasses brought justification.

17**For if, because of one man’s trespass, death reigned through that one man, much more will those who receive the abundance of grace and the free gift of righteousness reign in life through the one man Jesus Christ.
**
18Therefore, as one trespass led to condemnation for all men, so one act of righteousness leads to justification and life for all men. 19For as by the one man’s disobedience the many were made sinners, so by the one man’s obedience the many will be made righteous.

Here we have this beautiful gift. This great love is given to us again and again. I have witnessed Christ’s power over and over through the years. I am overwhelmed by His love and great mercy. . . .Christ, who says,

"Come to me, all who labor and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. Take my yoke upon you, and learn from me, for I am gentle and lowly in heart, and you will find rest for your souls." (Matthew 11:28-29)
I am not Catholic, but I did read the explanation of Hell written by Pope John Paul II. He does not describe it as a literal fiery torment for all eternity. See next post for the quote of Pope John Paul II.

Continued—
 
Cont–to uglygal

HEAVEN, HELL AND PURGATORY
Pope John Paul II

Hell is the State of Those who Reject God

At the General Audience of Wednesday, 28 July 1999, the Holy Father reflected on hell as the definitive rejection of God. In his catechesis, the Pope said that care should be taken to interpret correctly the images of hell in Sacred Scripture, and explained that “hell is the ultimate consequence of sin itself… Rather than a place, hell indicates the state of those who freely and definitively separate themselves from God, the source of all life and joy”.
  1. God is the infinitely good and merciful Father. But man, called to respond to him freely, can unfortunately choose to reject his love and forgiveness once and for all, thus separating himself for ever from joyful communion with him. It is precisely this tragic situation that Christian doctrine explains when it speaks of eternal damnation or hell. **It is not a punishment imposed externally by God **but a development of premises already set by people in this life. The very dimension of unhappiness which this obscure condition brings can in a certain way be sensed in the light of some of the terrible experiences we have suffered which, as is commonly said, make life “hell”.
In a theological sense however, hell is something else: it is the ultimate consequence of sin itself, which turns against the person who committed it. It is the state of those who definitively reject the Father’s mercy, even at the last moment of their life.
Hell is a state of eternal damnation
  1. To describe this reality **Sacred Scripture uses a symbolical language **which will gradually be explained. In the Old Testament the condition of the dead had not yet been fully disclosed by Revelation. Moreover it was thought that the dead were amassed in Sheol, a land of darkness (cf. Ez. 28:8; 31:14; Jb. 10:21f.; 38:17; Ps 30:10; 88:7, 13), a pit from which one cannot reascend (cf. Jb. 7:9), a place in which it is impossible to praise God (cf. Is 38:18; Ps 6:6).
The New Testament sheds new light on the condition of the dead, proclaiming above all that Christ by his Resurrection conquered death and extended his liberating power to the kingdom of the dead.

Redemption nevertheless remains an offer of salvation which it is up to people to accept freely. This is why they will all be judged “by what they [have done]” (Rv 20:13). By using images, the New Testament presents the place destined for evildoers as a fiery furnace, where people will “weep and gnash their teeth” (Mt 13:42; cf. 25:30, 41), or like Gehenna with its “unquenchable fire” (Mk 9:43). All this is narrated in the parable of the rich man, which explains that hell is a place of eternal suffering, with no possibility of return, nor of the alleviation of pain (cf. Lk. 16:19-3 1).
The Book of Revelation also figuratively portrays in a “pool of fire” those who exclude themselves from the book of life, thus meeting with a “second death” (Rv. 20:13f.). Whoever continues to be closed to the Gospel is therefore preparing for 'eternal destruction and exclusion from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of his might" (2 Thes 1:9).
  1. *The images of hell that Sacred Scripture presents to us must be correctly interpreted. They show the complete frustration and emptiness of life without God. Rather than a place, hell indicates the state of those who freely and definitively separate themselves from God, the source of all life and joy. **This is how the Catechism of the Catholic Church summarizes the truths of faith on this subject: “To die in mortal sin without repenting and accepting God’s merciful love means remaining separated from him for ever by our own free choice. This state of definitive self-exclusion from communion with God and the blessed is called ‘hell’” (n. 1033).
**“Eternal damnation”, therefore, is not attributed to God’s initiative because in his merciful love he can only desire the salvation of the beings he created. **In reality, it is the creature who closes himself to his love. Damnation consists precisely in definitive separation from God, freely chosen by the human person and confirmed with death that seals his choice for ever. God’s judgement ratifies this state.

We are saved from going to hell by Jesus who conquered Satan
  1. Christian faith teaches that in taking the risk of saying “yes” or “no”, which marks the human creature’s freedom, some have already said no. They are the spiritual creatures that rebelled against God’s love and are called demons (cf. Fourth Lateran Council, DS 800-801). What happened to them is a warning to us: it is a continuous call to avoid the tragedy which leads to sin and to conform our life to that of Jesus who lived his life with a “yes” to God.
Eternal damnation remains a real possibility, but we are not granted, without special divine revelation, the knowledge of whether or which human beings are effectively involved in it. The thought of hell — and even less the improper use of biblical images — must not create anxiety or despair, but is a necessary and healthy reminder of freedom within the proclamation that the risen Jesus has conquered Satan, giving us the, Spirit of God who makes us cry “Abba, Father!” (Rm. 8:15; Gal. 4:6).

This prospect, rich in hope, prevails in Christian proclamation. It is effectively reflected in the liturgical tradition of the Church, as the words of the Roman Canon attest: “Father, accept this offering from your whole family … save us from final damnation, and count us among those you have chosen”.

Provided Courtesy of:
Eternal Word Television Network
5817 Old Leeds Road
Irondale, AL 35210
www.ewtn.com

I pray the veil be lifted from your eyes, & that you will be reunited with Christ.

Anna
 
Hrolf, we’ve had some of this discussion before. I don’t want to spend a lot of time on the historical angle again. The tack that the org that I (and, as it happnes cyberwolf) work in uses a formula something like:
early post-christian accounts of pre-christian belief + archeology + later gaelic and british folklore + comparitive studies of ritual and practice from other nearby Indo-Euro cultures = best guess at what the ancients did.

**Historically speaking, the great Druid academy at Anglesey (Ynys Mon) was wiped out by the Romans. **

It is important to remember that Druidic religion survived for hundreds of years following that in the Gaelic range. Patrick’s mission didn’t come close to ending Paganism in Ireland - that took another 300 years, easy, during which time Druids ran the religion of the people.

**In Ireland, St. Patrick did a superb job of religious syncretism and adopted all that was good from Druidism in Ireland into Christianity. **

By which you mean all that fitted his doctrines. In our opinion he left out the most valuable stuff, such as polytheism. Myself I’m not much of a believer in ‘Celtic Christianity’ as a historical thing; as far as I can tell early Irish Christianity was just latin with an Irish accent.

The Picts? Exactly how much do we know about the Picts?

‘Pict’ is a term the Romans used for the tatooed peoples of north Britain. There’s no reason to think the Picts were other than British Celts, not very different from their Welsh or Cornish cousins, who merged easily with the Gaelic influx.

OK, the Welsh did a good job with the Mabinogion (which is lovely) but that is their mythology not their religious practices.

The Mab is really quite late - we pay more attention to the Irish material, the Book of Invasions, etc. The tales in the Mabinogion are more like medieval romances than like myth.

From what I can observe, modern neo-paganism is based upon Victorian precepts which have absolutely nothing to do with historical reality.

If you mean Wicca, you’re largely right. Wicca was constructed based on scholarship considered good in 1940 or so, including Frazer, Murray, etc. In the last 20 years or so Pagans have been moving toward better, more modern scholarship. In the Druidry we practice you’ll find no 19th century irregular masonry, no medieval grimoire ritual forms, and no left-over unitarian theology.

Given the fact that the religion of many of our ancestors met its demise well over a thousand years ago, what assurances do you have that what you are doing is what our ancestors did? I have that assurance as a Roman Catholic.

Here’s the thing. Religion doesn’t depend on historical authenticity for it’s value. Religion is a body of human skills, invented by humans to help us relate with the divine. A skilled poet could create a new religion from whole cloth tomorrow, and it would be likely to be effective for some folks. Now, I do think that classic forms are more likely to be effective for a larger number than completely new forms, just as more people comprehend depictive art than abstract art. Thus, we make an effort to develop our modern forms in ways that resemble what ancient religion was. We have good records of the rituals and forms of several Indo-European religions (though we lack them for the Celts). We apply these related forms to the known mythic lore to produce our new synthesis.

Even Wicca, with it’s weak scholarship by modern standards, continues to go from strength to strength. It is entering its third generation of practitioners and will surely be active 100 years after its founding, and beyond. We hope that our newer forms, based on (we think) better scholarship, will do at least as well.
Ian
 
Does your religion have something akin to sins? If so what would be some examples? What do people do to atone for sins (assuming there is a concept of sin of course)?

What is the core belief in your faith? For example, for Christianity I would say it’s love (love of God, love of ones neighbor, etc).

Thanks!
 
“Given the fact that the religion of many of our ancestors met its demise well over a thousand years ago, what assurances do you have that what you are doing is what our ancestors did? I have that assurance as a Roman Catholic.”

I have no assurances that my practices are faithful to the letter of what my ancestors did a thousand years ago. Nor do you as a Catholic. Today’s Catholicism bears only rough resemblance to that practiced in early medieval Europe and even less still with the Christianity practiced in Roman catacombs or Antioch in the early days. There was not even a basic consensus about who or what Christ was until the church’s central autority, boosted by civil authority, consolidated power and persuaded or killed the “heretics.”

Still, the core ideas of your religion have always had some foundation, and so it is with Wicca and other Neo-Pagan traditions. As interesting as it would have been to know what my ancestors did for ritual, I’m not an Iron-Age Celt living an agrarian lifestyle. I have to live in the here and now. Many of the ritual forms do derive from Victorian era Freemasonry or even more recently, but what we access with those is timeless and meaningful as ever.

I’ll attempt to tackle the issue of sin, but not tonight. I’ve got a sink full of dishes and a PCR contamination problem to try to sort out.
 
brotherhrolf;6300667:
I asked these questions of you over on the TC forum and you did not reply.
I read this before and having looked it over again I can’t really make heads or tales of this block of text. Exactly wha are you asking me? 🤷
I am asking you the same thing I asked my friends years ago. There is no connection between the “authentic” (i.e. historical) worship of the pagan gods and the Victorian era fabrications of Wicca, etc. It is all well and good to state that you are a neo-pagan but there is no historical background to warrant it. You do not have authentic historical texts only Victorian fabrications. Given that, I can easily make a case for the worship of Cthulhu simply based upon H. P. Lovecraft’s short stories and novels from the 20s and 30s.
 
Should I bother telling Hrolf that Chaos Mages use the Cthulhu Mythos as if it were real?

😃

Also, Wicca isn’t the only flavor of neo-paganism out there. You’re lumping all pagans under the umbrella of Wicca.
 
Peace to you, @cyberwolf. Hope today is a good day for you!

Question… I could have asked a moderator behind your back but I figure it’s better to be upfront.

All due respect, no offense, but how did you get the title ‘prayer warrior’ on a Catholic forum if you are a neo-Pagan?

I’m new to these boards, so everything doesn’t make sense quite just yet.

I count among my buds a couple who are neo-Pagan, too. They are great! Friendly, erudite, uber-intelligent, tolerant. But they are the laaaaaaast people on earth I would consider ‘prayer warriors.’

Not saying that you don’t pray; just that I am guessing on a Catholic board one is supposed to be a prayer warrior of the LORD, and not Thor or Balder or whichever.

Again, no offense and all due respect. Just wondering, that’s all!
 
I spent several years working with Satanic cult survivors, trying to break the bondage of the cult. I will never forget the things I witnessed, and the things they revealed. If you fall deeply enough in Satanism, you will enter a world of darkness, one filled with ritual torture and even human sacrifice. I have lived in several different countries and numerous states in the U.S–so I will not break any confidentiality by revealing where I worked with these Satanic cult survivors.

There are many Satanist “wanttobes,” who happily go about their rituals. But once you find your way into serious Satanism; you will experience “Hell on earth,” in the things that will be done to you; and the things you will be forced to do to others. Cult survivors told us one of the things that works in their favor is that even when someone exposes the rituals; most people refuse to believe that such horrific acts are actually happening in their communities. So, the magnitude of the Satanic atrocities actually works in their favor.
Wow… I thought the Satanic Ritual Abuse (SRA) scare of the 80s was left behind… Apparently, it’s still around.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Satanic_ritual_abuse
 
Hrolf, we’ve had some of this discussion before. I don’t want to spend a lot of time on the historical angle again. The tack that the org that I (and, as it happnes cyberwolf) work in uses a formula something like:
early post-christian accounts of pre-christian belief + archeology + later gaelic and british folklore + comparitive studies of ritual and practice from other nearby Indo-Euro cultures = best guess at what the ancients did.

**Historically speaking, the great Druid academy at Anglesey (Ynys Mon) was wiped out by the Romans. **

It is important to remember that Druidic religion survived for hundreds of years following that in the Gaelic range. Patrick’s mission didn’t come close to ending Paganism in Ireland - that took another 300 years, easy, during which time Druids ran the religion of the people.

**In Ireland, St. Patrick did a superb job of religious syncretism and adopted all that was good from Druidism in Ireland into Christianity. **

By which you mean all that fitted his doctrines. In our opinion he left out the most valuable stuff, such as polytheism. Myself I’m not much of a believer in ‘Celtic Christianity’ as a historical thing; as far as I can tell early Irish Christianity was just latin with an Irish accent.

The Picts? Exactly how much do we know about the Picts?

‘Pict’ is a term the Romans used for the tatooed peoples of north Britain. There’s no reason to think the Picts were other than British Celts, not very different from their Welsh or Cornish cousins, who merged easily with the Gaelic influx.

OK, the Welsh did a good job with the Mabinogion (which is lovely) but that is their mythology not their religious practices.

The Mab is really quite late - we pay more attention to the Irish material, the Book of Invasions, etc. The tales in the Mabinogion are more like medieval romances than like myth.

From what I can observe, modern neo-paganism is based upon Victorian precepts which have absolutely nothing to do with historical reality.

If you mean Wicca, you’re largely right. Wicca was constructed based on scholarship considered good in 1940 or so, including Frazer, Murray, etc. In the last 20 years or so Pagans have been moving toward better, more modern scholarship. In the Druidry we practice you’ll find no 19th century irregular masonry, no medieval grimoire ritual forms, and no left-over unitarian theology.

Given the fact that the religion of many of our ancestors met its demise well over a thousand years ago, what assurances do you have that what you are doing is what our ancestors did? I have that assurance as a Roman Catholic.

Here’s the thing. Religion doesn’t depend on historical authenticity for it’s value. Religion is a body of human skills, invented by humans to help us relate with the divine. A skilled poet could create a new religion from whole cloth tomorrow, and it would be likely to be effective for some folks. Now, I do think that classic forms are more likely to be effective for a larger number than completely new forms, just as more people comprehend depictive art than abstract art. Thus, we make an effort to develop our modern forms in ways that resemble what ancient religion was. We have good records of the rituals and forms of several Indo-European religions (though we lack them for the Celts). We apply these related forms to the known mythic lore to produce our new synthesis.

Even Wicca, with it’s weak scholarship by modern standards, continues to go from strength to strength. It is entering its third generation of practitioners and will surely be active 100 years after its founding, and beyond. We hope that our newer forms, based on (we think) better scholarship, will do at least as well.
Ian
Sorry, Ian. I am not arguing this from a traditional Catholic viewpoint but from the viewpoint of a history/anthropology major. I will acknowledge that there are ample resources for some Indo-European religions. I would be foolish to ignore all the Greco-Roman documentation as well as the Indian which is the progenitor of all the others.

There is no documentation for the Celts since Druidism by its very nature was mnemotic. A little bit more for the Norse.

I repeat my claim. I can develop a “religion” worshiping Cthulhu based upon H. P. Lovecraft’s short stories and novels. Doesn’t mean that Cthulhu exists. I can chant “Ia, ia, Cthulhu fthagn” till the cows come home. It has no basis in reality anymore than the inventions of the Victorians. Face it. Neo-paganism is an invention invented basically whole cloth by the Victorians.

I am not a believer in Celtic Christianity either. But I do know that the Irish were responsible for the spread of “civilization” back into Europe after the fall of Rome. Look up St. Columba and Alcuin of York. Neither were “druids”.

BTW, the Picts were not Celts but an indigenous British people. Why else would Hadrian’s wall have been built?
 
*“I repeat my claim. I can develop a “religion” worshiping Cthulhu based upon H. P. Lovecraft’s short stories and novels. Doesn’t mean that Cthulhu exists. I can chant “Ia, ia, Cthulhu fthagn” till the cows come home. It has no basis in reality anymore than the inventions of the Victorians. Face it. Neo-paganism is an invention invented basically whole cloth by the Victorians.” *

At one time, Christianity had been “invented whole cloth” by a group of First Century Jews and other subjects of the Roman Empire who found something appealing in a belief system which was just coming together, assembled by men who had essentially no direct witness to the events which inspired it. Were they fools for following a “new” faith?

When I go to a doctor, most the technology used on me is half a century, or half a decade old. Am I missing out on the “real thing” because I don’t do the regimen of bloodletting prescribed by the ancients? The antiquity of a thing or an idea is a rather poor test, in and of itself. Delusions and mistakes often survive centuries as well as good ideas. The bottom line for us is whether something works. When we call our gods in circle, they come. They inspire and nurture us and often help us to grow in life-changing ways. That’s why we do it, not because we’re rabid fans of Victorian or Romantic era literture or because we see Gerald Gardner as some sort of messianic figure.

We need to draw further distinctions when we talk about the “Victorian invention” of modern paganism. The ritual forms, the sword and bell and pig Latin sounding chants are certainly inventions, but the mythology they work with follows an unbroken lineage back through the Rennaisance, the Middle Ages clear back to the Roman and Hellenic worlds, to time periods which are much older than Christianity.

Now I don’t mean to say that Christianity itself is pagan, it’s teachings set it apart in many ways, but it too has plenty of pagan DNA in its genome. NONE of its mythology surrounding key aspects of its founders life are original to it. Virgin birth on Winter Solstice, under a star, a baptist figure who is then beheaded, 12 followers, healed the sick, raised the dead, nailed to a piece of wood for humanity’s benefit, a three-day death and resurrection…all been done before. All of the major dates in the Christian calendar, or the Catholic one at least, pagan holidays.

All of the great cathedrals of Europe - packed to the rafters with pagan artwork. Let’s not even get into Rome. More high-quality pagan inspired artwork has been created there since the 15th Century than under any Caesar. When I sometimes go to Christmas Mass with family members, I find they set the finest pagan altar I’ve ever seen, piled with evergreen branches, the air filled with incense. Paganism clearly has some deep resonance with humanity with deeper roots than Victorian writers or modern-day Goth kids who like pentacles. No amount of mockery or breathless Jack Chick nonsense about Satanism will erase that, or scare off those of us who choose to drink from this ancient stream.
 
Peace to you, @cyberwolf. Hope today is a good day for you!

Question… I could have asked a moderator behind your back but I figure it’s better to be upfront.

All due respect, no offense, but how did you get the title ‘prayer warrior’ on a Catholic forum if you are a neo-Pagan?

I’m new to these boards, so everything doesn’t make sense quite just yet.

I count among my buds a couple who are neo-Pagan, too. They are great! Friendly, erudite, uber-intelligent, tolerant. But they are the laaaaaaast people on earth I would consider ‘prayer warriors.’

Not saying that you don’t pray; just that I am guessing on a Catholic board one is supposed to be a prayer warrior of the LORD, and not Thor or Balder or whichever.

Again, no offense and all due respect. Just wondering, that’s all!
 
Wow… I thought the Satanic Ritual Abuse (SRA) scare of the 80s was left behind… Apparently, it’s still around.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Satanic_ritual_abuse
It’s very real, NoWings. And those who work to get these people out, put their lives at risk-especially doctors. Death treats are common. The cult’s systematic destruction of the careers of doctors, treating patient’s from the Satanic cult, is common. The whole time I worked with these people, I was looking over my shoulder. We had escorts to our cars at night, and always had to be on guard. People don’t want to believe it is true. That gives the cult a huge advantage.

Anna
 
Aren’t you worried that you could become demonically possessed or something? I mean, that can and does happen to those who engage in Occultic practices and Neo-Paganism is involved with the Occult.
 
**Sorry, Ian. I am not arguing this from a traditional Catholic viewpoint but from the viewpoint of a history/anthropology major. I will acknowledge that there are ample resources for some Indo-European religions. I would be foolish to ignore all the Greco-Roman documentation as well as the Indian which is the progenitor of all the others.
There is no documentation for the Celts since Druidism by its very nature was mnemotic. A little bit more for the Norse. **

No documentation of ritual and practice, you mean. True enough, there is very little (some few hints in lore such as the importance of ritual fire and holy wells, for instance.).

We freely take the model of fire-sacrifice that extends through the IE world from the vedic peoples through the avestan religions into greek and roman ways, and extend it into the celtic countries. Our basic form of worship is through sacred fire, and the making of offerings.

But, from a historical point of view, it’s plain that all religions were new at some time. Certainly Christianity spent 200 years as a muddle of conflicting ideas and practices, which only time and politics resolved into what is now called ‘orthodox’ doctrine. Personally, I hope neopaganism can avoid developing orthodoxy, in favor of remaining a garden of many blossoms.

Being newly invented does not mean a religion is valueless. Value (and surely, truth, in a spiritual sense) is based on results, not on history. So far, the results in neopaganism have been just fine, leading practitioners to remain in the systems, and bring their kids up in them as well.

**Neo-paganism is an invention invented basically whole cloth by the Victorians. **

That’s an extreme and indefensible claim. Please indicate the victorian content in Asatru. Once again, if you mean Wicca, you’re not wrong. If you mean neopaganism, you are. They are not equivalent.

I am not a believer in Celtic Christianity either. But I do know that the Irish were responsible for the spread of “civilization” back into Europe after the fall of Rome. Look up St. Columba and Alcuin of York. Neither were “druids”.

Actually, wasn’t Collumcille from a ‘druidic’ lineage? It’s surely true that the Irish monks helped restore latin learning to Europe. All that means is that they drank the Roman kool-aid.

BTW, the Picts were not Celts but an indigenous British people. Why else would Hadrian’s wall have been built?

Hadrian’s wall was built to protect against warlike natives - it provides no evidence as to their liguistic or ethnic type. I’ve never seen anything scholastic that suggests that Picts weren’t Britons, just like romanized Britons, only not romanized. The snippets of Pictish inscriptions we have ar pretty plainly in a Celtic language.

Once again, my point is that inaccurate history doesn’t exclude spiritual power. After all, shall we take all the hagiographies as literal history? Or the first few books of the OT, for that matter…
 
Wow… I thought the Satanic Ritual Abuse (SRA) scare of the 80s was left behind… Apparently, it’s still around.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Satanic_ritual_abuse
Therapists who pretend to work with SRA survivors are generally cheesy rip-offs looking to make money on fear and theology.
In the entire history of the fake SRA movement there has not been a single hidden corpse discovered, not a single secret satanic chapel revealed, not a single murderer imprisoned. There is zero physical evidence for it, and no reason to believe it happens

It’s all nonsense, bearing more resemblance to Church scare-stories from the 1500s than to any actual problem in real life.
 
I think the best claim for an unbroken, traditional European pagan religion would be en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Romuva_(church Lithuania wasn’t converted til the 15th cent.

Outside Europe, I bet some forms of Slavic pagan rituals were also handed down, unbroken.

Unlike the reconstruction of conjectured Norse/Celtic/Teutonic religions.

just my 2c
 
It’s very real, NoWings. And those who work to get these people out, put their lives at risk-especially doctors. Death treats are common. The cult’s systematic destruction of the careers of doctors, treating patient’s from the Satanic cult, is common. The whole time I worked with these people, I was looking over my shoulder. We had escorts to our cars at night, and always had to be on guard. People don’t want to believe it is true. That gives the cult a huge advantage.

Anna
I find it odd that these baby-eating Satanic cults are running around doing all of this naughtiness and the FBI and other state law enforcement agencies never arrest anyone or issue any warnings for travelers and residents. No arrests are made, no news agencies cover the happenings…

The FBI conducted an investigation. It found that the claims were complete 100% bull****.

You can forgive me if I trust the highest law enforcement agency in the country over people who make ridiculous claims with 0 evidence to back it.
 
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