Neo-Paganism Q&A

[Ahimsa]

@ NoWings,

It may be “this again” for you, but not me. I’m new to these boards and @Cyberwolf is educating me. I think it’s a valid question. But I want to hear the answer from a real Pagan, not someone who hasn’t got a dog in this fight (agnostics, atheists). This is a question for those who have faith in Odin.

Heathen.

 

[BouncingBall]

Heathen.

Beg pardon, Ahimsa?

 

[BouncingBall]

Meh.

I call down the blessing of The Most Holy Trinity on Ahimsa; may the Precious Blood of Jesus Christ cover Ahimsa and his/her household. And may the peace of Christ which surpasseth all understanding guard Ahimsa.

Anyway, still waiting on an answer from any Pagans on this thread. Have a good day!

 

[BouncingBall]

Heathen.

Meh.

I call down the blessing of The Most Holy Trinity on Ahimsa; may the Precious Blood of Jesus Christ cover Ahimsa and his/her household. And may the peace of Christ which surpasseth all understanding guard Ahimsa.

Anyway, still waiting on an answer from any Pagans on this thread. Have a good day!

 

[Ahimsa]

Meh.

I call down the blessing of The Most Holy Trinity on Ahimsa; may the Precious Blood of Jesus Christ cover Ahimsa and his/her household. And may the peace of Christ which surpasseth all understanding guard Ahimsa.

Anyway, still waiting on an answer from any Pagans on this thread. Have a good day!

Those who have faith in Odin and other Nordic Gods prefer to be called “Heathen” rather than “Pagan”. I wasn’t calling you a “heathen”; sorry for the confusion.

 

[gurneyhalleck1]

Good timing with the name. I’m a sixth grade teacher and we teach ancient India and its religions in our curriculum. One of the vocabulary words on the test I made was “ahimsa.”

Those who have faith in Odin and other Nordic Gods prefer to be called “Heathen” rather than “Pagan”. I wasn’t calling you a “heathen”; sorry for the confusion.

 

[cyberwolf001]

Good morning, @Cyberwolf! Hope you are enjoying the start of a great weekend.

Well mine is ending actually. Sunday I return to work.

Well, since you are the only Pagan who is answering questions, I have some more of them.

-Looks to his left and his right- HEY WHERE DID EVERYONE ELSE GO!?

-hammer signs self-

What events of the last century displeased Odin?

The conversion and the way it happened for one. Just read the Saga of Olaf Tryggvason. This was penned by Christian scrips and praised him for murdering the Pagans that kept on worshiping Pagan gods.

The Holocaust and Nazi Germany and the abuse of his symbols.

What repeat of slaughter is Odin referring to? The slaughter of Christians?

The slaughter of his followers by them. See the Northern Crusade, Saxon Wars and laws passed after them for more. The Northern Crusade target a different Pagan group but some of Odins own died in that fight.

I cannot think of any reason why you would offer your life to Odin. (See, “I am ready to die at your will,” “insert your spear here” statements by you earlier in the thread). What offense could you possibly commit against Odin that Odin would deem needful of human sacrifice (the sacrifice being you)?

Think about the Consecration to Jesus through Mary and the Act of Surrender in your own religion. It’s the same concept.

In one of the Eddas, is it not stated that Odin died in battle? Is it not more reasonable to search out a living deity to follow?

If you read carefully that only came from the Prose Edda and was part of a bit clearly added in by the author to appease the Church (a retelling of Genesis is in the same part along with Odin being resurrected by Christ and ruling with him, how that wasn’t considered heresy I’ll never know.)

What is the difference between Odinist and Wotanist?

One uses one form of his name, the other uses a different form.

What are your views on the racist branch of Odin’s worshipers?

No doubt the same as your views on racist Catholics. Misguided and worshiping race.

What does Odin have to say about both groups?

Depends on the which group. As dividing his followers into Racist and Non-Racist leaves to huge groups. Although the racist tend to be Christian and only use Odin as a symbol of racial pride.

What is the White Order of Thule? Are they heterodox followers of Odin or are they in error?

First I’ve ever heard of them.

Ah… this again.

Part of the price of following Odin.

 

[peary]

Comments on the comments:

I see Paganism as our natural state. The only times it is ever totally opprsed involves military action and laws to keep it held down. Once those are gone it comes right back up and goes forward.

Paganism involves a lot of things. A ‘pagan’ is one who adheres to a polytheistic religion; or rampant sexual cravings - he or she is also a ‘hedonist’ - a person whose life is devoted to the pursuit of pleasure and self-gratification. Most hedonists suffer from narcissism.

Some of these will be insulting to a Catholic. I make no apologies for that, our faiths are different and take different views on the world, and this is just the effect it has had upon me as compared to when I was a Catholic:

You do not have a ‘faith’. You have a self-centered set of amoral beliefs that are based on how you feel on any given day.

I no longer feel guilty for being happy (I was once told you can be happy or Catholic by my former Priest but never both and only a very immoral person can by happy).

What your priest was probably telling you is that you can never be happy in this world since that is not the nature of existence. Being a Catholic takes guts and a determination to do the right thing. The entire Christian revelation is based on God’s love for us, and as is attested by saints and even many of the faithful throughout the past two-thousand years, this love of God has the effect of utter bliss within one’s being.

I no long feel as lonely.

The loneliness one feels in the spiritual life is the longing that the soul has for his or her Maker.Loneliness in general life is a social dysfunction. One can be incredibly happy in the spiritual life but also experience loneliness of God.

I am more laid back and less likely to take offense at criticisms of myself, my politics and my religion. Even less likely to feel like a persecuted minority when my views are questioned.

Nobody is questioning your views; you are just misdirected.

My life in general is slowly improving, my health, my wealth and over all I am happier.

Jesus said, “Take up your Cross and follow me.” He didn’t say put it down and I will give you everything to make you healthy, wealthy and wise. You may think you are becoming healthy, wealthy and wise, but sooner or later you will have to face your own personal cross and all you will have left is yourself and God. That is a great moment of humility and reality.

The emphasis on enjoying life in moderation, the focus on treating others fairly, the healthy approach to sex. The focus on self improvement in body, mind and spirit.

This has been always the intent of the Church. Saint Paul also taught that all things should be in moderation. A healthy approach to sex is not to see it as recreational but as God intended. Again, your beliefs are based on a self-centeredness that goes with how you feel at any time of the day.

The ethic codes are not based on inflexible thou shalt nots. But rather principles that can be used to help people decide how best to act in any situation.

The Church’s ethic code is based on Christ’s only commandment that He gave us: LOVE OTHERS AS I HAVE LOVED YOU." If you can’t see outside of yourself and empathize with the lives of others, then you are way off the mark.

Neo-Pagans don’t believe we have to be the only faith. That said a world full of Pagans I feel would be better as the enviroment would be treated better, efforts to help the poor would be more than just an effort to convert them but to actually eliminate poverty once and for all.

It has been my experience that progressives are quick to place themselves up on pedestals and intellectually rationalize how much better the world would be if people would only reject Christianity. the fact is, most progressives do very little to help the poor, but their money usually goes to programs that attempt to eliminate them. That is their way of ‘helping’ the poor.

Today Paganism would be a boom to science and no longer hold it chained down with dogmas.

Science certainly hasn’t suffered due to Christianity. In fact, if it wasn’t for the Church and its intellectual force spearheading the scientific revolution for all these centuries, we would still be riding horses and eating our food being baked over dung.

The profit of this faith however is in the field of writing. Pagans love to read as a general rule.

I don’t think pagans make up most of the membership of book clubs… you might find them drinking coffee and reading freebies at a local Barnes & Noble or Borders, however.
Pretty cheap, eh?

 

[cyberwolf001]

Comments on the comments:

Paganism involves a lot of things. A ‘pagan’ is one who adheres to a polytheistic religion; or rampant sexual cravings - he or she is also a ‘hedonist’ - a person whose life is devoted to the pursuit of pleasure and self-gratification. Most hedonists suffer from narcissism.

That is what the dictionary says. I am detecting a wee bit of hostility in this post.

You do not have a ‘faith’. You have a self-centered set of amoral beliefs that are based on how you feel on any given day.

Why do you say that?

What your priest was probably telling you is that you can never be happy in this world since that is not the nature of existence. Being a Catholic takes guts and a determination to do the right thing. The entire Christian revelation is based on God’s love for us, and as is attested by saints and even many of the faithful throughout the past two-thousand years, this love of God has the effect of utter bliss within one’s being.

I’ve heard this. A lot, repeatedly.

The loneliness one feels in the spiritual life is the longing that the soul has for his or her Maker. Loneliness in general life is a social dysfunction. One can be incredibly happy in the spiritual life but also experience loneliness of God.

An this relates to what I said how?

Nobody is questioning your views; you are just misdirected.

Never said anyone here was. I was asked how it affected me, I answered.

Jesus said, “Take up your Cross and follow me.” He didn’t say put it down and I will give you everything to make you healthy, wealthy and wise. You may think you are becoming healthy, wealthy and wise, but sooner or later you will have to face your own personal cross and all you will have left is yourself and God. That is a great moment of humility and reality.

Well honestly I don’t follow Jesus anymore so I do not really care what he said. an yes I have had horrible times in my life where it was just me and the beings I worship.

Again, your beliefs are based on a self-centeredness that goes with how you feel at any time of the day.

You may be surprised to know I am a virgin. I am constantly mocked by my Catholic
Ex-girlfriend (we dated before I joined the Church) and her Catholic friends for this. The Christians at my job are constantly mocking me as well for being a virgin and believe I am a homosexual for not wanting to have sex with a prostitute (there treat).

My ethics and morality are not self-centered but rather community centered with myself as a part of it. Improve the self, don’t neglect yourself and you can better be a help to others who in turn will help you and you in turn can help them and so on back and forth.

I’m not sure how you came to this conclusion or why the accusations and insults. I mean your basicly calling me wishy-washy, saying I have no Faith and calling me selfish here man.

The Church’s ethic code is based on Christ’s only commandment that He gave us: LOVE OTHERS AS I HAVE LOVED YOU." If you can’t see outside of yourself and empathize with the lives of others, then you are way off the mark.

I’ve heard this. I certainly have strong opinions on the Love of your God, but I try to be respectful on this forum while making my viewn on it clear.

Science certainly hasn’t suffered due to Christianity. In fact, if it wasn’t for the Church and its intellectual force spearheading the scientific revolution for all these centuries, we would still be riding horses and eating our food being baked over dung.

Umm we stopped baking food over dung long before Christianity showed up and the Romans also had many advances going, who is to say what would have happened?

I don’t think pagans make up most of the membership of book clubs… you might find them drinking coffee and reading freebies at a local Barnes & Noble or Borders, however.

Pretty cheap, eh?

You certainly seem to be heaping on the insults left and right.

 

[gurneyhalleck1]

I don’t have a pony in this race between you two but I thought I’d be a butt-insky and make a few comments in blue…

That is what the dictionary says. I am detecting a wee bit of hostility in this post.

Why do you say that?

I’ve heard this. A lot, repeatedly.

An this relates to what I said how?

Never said anyone here was. I was asked how it affected me, I answered.

I hope you’ll give Him a chance again. He’s calling you, loves you, and even when you don’t care about Him, He still loves you just as much.
Well honestly I don’t follow Jesus anymore so I do not really care what he said. an yes I have had horrible times in my life where it was just me and the beings I worship.

I laud and admire you for this. You are correct that not only Catholics can be virtuous and I think it’s awesome that you’ve respected yourself and women enough to not use them and throw them like a coke can over your shoulder as so many do. Sexuality is treated in such a cavalier fashion these days. Kudos to you. And I must point out that many of your statements and opinions seem heavily based on experience and the emotional reaction to bad examples of Catholics. You have mentioned in previous post hypocritical Catholics and you do it again here. You point out Catholics mocking you for being a virgin. I agree it’s absurd. Calling you a homosexual is equally lame. I also got that in high school when I was, of all things, considering myself a Buddhist…that’s a LOOONG story! But I resolved to stay a virgin and my friend and I were called gay by some haters because we didn’t date and hunt down women like toys. So as Clinton would say, ‘I feel your pain!’ But I must point out, they’re hypocrites! Maybe there are Catholics who are in the mafia who go shoot someone after Mass then go to confession, doesn’t mean all Catholics do! There are Catholics who sex women up, who get divorced, who lie cheat and steal and break all the rules and could care less about their faith. There are those who brag about their Catholicism only to live a life contrary to it. There are hypocritical Catholics just like there are hypocritical pagans.
You may be surprised to know I am a virgin. I am constantly mocked by my Catholic
Ex-girlfriend (we dated before I joined the Church) and her Catholic friends for this. The Christians at my job are constantly mocking me as well for being a virgin and believe I am a homosexual for not wanting to have sex with a prostitute (there treat).

How do you know what an “improvement” is if you have no standard to go by? We have Christ Jesus as a role model so we know what perfection looks like; what standard of morality as a compass or final product does paganism have? Paganism seems to be a cockeyed hodge-podge of gods and goddesses from across wide pantheons of mythology from the Greeks to the Norse to the Aztecs to the Celtic myths full of various lore, various moralities and sensibilities of right and wrong that have no one standard. In the pagan Canaanite lands child sacrifice and temple prostitution and orgies were considered virtuous just as the Etruscans adored bisexual, out-of-control orgies. Paganism has no standard. And how do you decide which standard is right? Ultimately they must be self-centered.
My ethics and morality are not self-centered but rather community centered with myself as a part of it. Improve the self, don’t neglect yourself and you can better be a help to others who in turn will help you and you in turn can help them and so on back and forth.

I’m not sure how you came to this conclusion or why the accusations and insults. I mean your basicly calling me wishy-washy, saying I have no Faith and calling me selfish here man.

We appreciate your charity but I’d like to know where your suspicion, disdain, and hostility toward the idea of the Christ’s love comes from?..
I’ve heard this. I certainly have strong opinions on the Love of your God, but I try to be respectful on this forum while making my viewn on it clear.

Good move. I like a little bbq sauce, a mosquite flavor, charcoal grill, dung I’m not a big fan of!
Umm we stopped baking food over dung long before Christianity showed up and the Romans also had many advances going, who is to say what would have happened?

I don’t think most Catholics, myself included, mean to be insulting. It just seems that usually people leave Catholicism for all the wrong reasons. Friend, I left Catholicism a couple of times in my life, both were during misguided and poorly-catechized, selfish periods of my life. I can admit that. I have a restless soul. I know that. And the devil makes use of my restlessness, my rebellious heart, and my constant need to question and probe. But thanks be to God the Lord amplifies my good qualifies to overtake the Devil’s harrassment. God bless you.
You certainly seem to be heaping on the insults left and right.

 

[NoWings]

@ NoWings,

It may be “this again” for you, but not me. I’m new to these boards and @Cyberwolf is educating me. I think it’s a valid question. But I want to hear the answer from a real Pagan, not someone who hasn’t got a dog in this fight (agnostics, atheists). This is a question for those who have faith in Odin.

LOL… I always love it when people assume I’m not knowledgeable about a faith’s beliefs and / or practices because I’m not a member. ‘Having a dog in the fight’ doesn’t mean I can’t answer a question.

If that were the case, no Catholic on this board should ever butt in threads where questions about say… Islam are being answered.

But, whatever.

 

[Eris_Discordia]

Paganism involves a lot of things. A ‘pagan’ is one who adheres to a polytheistic religion; or rampant sexual cravings - he or she is also a ‘hedonist’ - a person whose life is devoted to the pursuit of pleasure and self-gratification. Most hedonists suffer from narcissism.

And your point? Who cares? Yes, I am a bit of a hedonist, but I also care about people. I don’t care about material possessions, I care about living the way I see fit. Which is making connections with people and not worrying about what could happen after I die. You only get one life, and I don’t care to worry about offending your God, because I don’t believe in the same god you do. My Goddess doesn’t get offended easily, and trusts my judgment when it comes to morality. Also, hedonism is not just about sex. FYI.

You do not have a ‘faith’. You have a self-centered set of amoral beliefs that are based on how you feel on any given day.

Yes, we do. We have “faith”, we just have different beliefs, which is different than faith. So you’re wrong. Secondly, just because one believes in objective morality, like myself, does not mean that they are selfish ect. I have a strong moral code which I follow, but I understand that not everyone believes as I do. I tolerate others, and try to understand them, even though I disagree. For example, I don’t believe that sex is wrong outside of marraige, yet you do. However, I respect that you hold those beliefs, even though I disagree. What is true for you is not true for someone else.

What your priest was probably telling you is that you can never be happy in this world since that is not the nature of existence. Being a Catholic takes guts and a determination to do the right thing. The entire Christian revelation is based on God’s love for us, and as is attested by saints and even many of the faithful throughout the past two-thousand years, this love of God has the effect of utter bliss within one’s being.

Not for me. I can’t believe in a Church that is run by God speaking through a man(as in human, not gender). I cannot trust a man who claims to speak for God. I cannot believe in the moral authority and infallibility of the Pope. I do not know the mind of my Goddess, and neither can the Pope claim this special power. He is a man, elected by other men, and I don’t believe that God speaks through him. I’d rather find my own way to learn right from wrong, and trust my heart and soul. If you truly believe the Church, I have no qualms, however, I do not. I left for many a reason.

The loneliness one feels in the spiritual life is the longing that the soul has for his or her Maker.Loneliness in general life is a social dysfunction. One can be incredibly happy in the spiritual life but also experience loneliness of God.

I am not lonely, quite the opposite. Aside from depression episodes, which are few and far between, I am happy. I feel both spiritually sound and I am satisfied in my personal life. I don’t feel like anything is missing. I feel fulfilled with my faith, my writing, my social life, and heck, even my insanity. Personally, it’s hard to be alone when you have the mind that I have, anyway.

Nobody is questioning your views; you are just misdirected.

I doubt that he is, or I, or any of the other pagans are misdirected. We follow our soul, our gods, and our spirits. For me, at least, it hasn’t led me astray yet.

Jesus said, “Take up your Cross and follow me.” He didn’t say put it down and I will give you everything to make you healthy, wealthy and wise. You may think you are becoming healthy, wealthy and wise, but sooner or later you will have to face your own personal cross and all you will have left is yourself and God. That is a great moment of humility and reality.

I have faced many, many crosses. As Gurney can tell you. Anyway, I’d rather follow my heart than anyone else. Sure, it’s not perfect, and it’s been wrong on some things, but it helps me learn from mistakes. Also, in my darkest hours, I’ve prayed to any god once, and once only. Recently, after a severe episode of depression. I prayed to Eris, my Goddess. After praying to her, I felt strong again. It didn’t happen all at once, but I felt like I could get through it. I felt her presence. Her presence almost said to me “You can do it. I’m here if you need me, but I know you can get through this by yourself. Be self reliant, and you will be stronger.” After a few days working on things, I was able to fight through, and I’m much better now. It’s the same as if someone has felt Jesus’ presence, or whichever god you subscribe. It’s no different. Also, no, this was not Satan, and it was not Jesus. It was distinctly feminine. I have my Goddess, and I am happier and healthier. I also feel less stifled and able to be myself.

This has been always the intent of the Church. Saint Paul also taught that all things should be in moderation. A healthy approach to sex is not to see it as recreational but as God intended. Again, your beliefs are based on a self-centeredness that goes with how you feel at any time of the day.

Sex is not just for procreational in my eyes. Sex is also not something I lightly. Sex is to bring two people together in perfect unity, sharing intimacy on a very deep level. It is about learning how to take care of your lover, and how to take care of yourself. It is about sharing a deep part of yourself that is hidden from everyone. Also, it does not need to be saved for marriage. Sex is not a “Flower” that can be torn to bits, nor a “gift” for your future mate. Sex is something that belongs to one person and one person only: “You”. Not a partner, not society, not the Church, but “you”. Whatever you do with sex is up to you and you alone. Whether a virgin or not, it doesn’t matter. For me, sex is nothing but a bond that is shared with someone I love deeply. I don’t need a piece of paper or the approval of society to decide to share this with someone, should I choose to.

The Church’s ethic code is based on Christ’s only commandment that He gave us: LOVE OTHERS AS I HAVE LOVED YOU." If you can’t see outside of yourself and empathize with the lives of others, then you are way off the mark.

I do, all the time, which is why I am on here, to learn to understand humanity, even if I don’t agree. I try to put myself before others. I fail, sometimes, but I try to be as selfless as I can. I am very passionate about things like human rights and helping sexual assault survivors.

It has been my experience that progressives are quick to place themselves up on pedestals and intellectually rationalize how much better the world would be if people would only reject Christianity. the fact is, most progressives do very little to help the poor, but their money usually goes to programs that attempt to eliminate them. That is their way of ‘helping’ the poor.

I am intellectual, but I respect that faith is important, and personal. I will try not to judge people I disagree with. However, I myself left the Church. I do not care what beliefs a person holds, as long as they are a good person. I will disagree profoundly with that belief system for myself, but I recognize the value of it to some.

I don’t think pagans make up most of the membership of book clubs… you might find them drinking coffee and reading freebies at a local Barnes & Noble or Borders, however.
Pretty cheap, eh?

Yes, it is. And I would do that, for the simple fact that I really don’t have the money, nor do I really care about material possessions. I also prefer to read on my own, and discuss them with my friends. I don’t have time to read things people pick out for me, unless I have a strong interest. I am also a writer, and would much rather write. And college makes it difficult enough to do even that. Also, coffee is terrible. I’d much rather have water.

 

[Eris_Discordia]

I laud and admire you for this. You are correct that not only Catholics can be virtuous and I think it’s awesome that you’ve respected yourself and women enough to not use them and throw them like a coke can over your shoulder as so many do. Sexuality is treated in such a cavalier fashion these days. Kudos to you. And I must point out that many of your statements and opinions seem heavily based on experience and the emotional reaction to bad examples of Catholics. You have mentioned in previous post hypocritical Catholics and you do it again here. You point out Catholics mocking you for being a virgin. I agree it’s absurd. Calling you a homosexual is equally lame. I also got that in high school when I was, of all things, considering myself a Buddhist…that’s a LOOONG story! But I resolved to stay a virgin and my friend and I were called gay by some haters because we didn’t date and hunt down women like toys. So as Clinton would say, ‘I feel your pain!’ But I must point out, they’re hypocrites! Maybe there are Catholics who are in the mafia who go shoot someone after Mass then go to confession, doesn’t mean all Catholics do! There are Catholics who sex women up, who get divorced, who lie cheat and steal and break all the rules and could care less about their faith. There are those who brag about their Catholicism only to live a life contrary to it. There are hypocritical Catholics just like there are hypocritical pagans

I’m also going to commend you. I think that far too much pressure is put into sex, both against people who choose not to, and people who do. I’m glad you respect women, and I am glad you didn’t cave under pressure to treat women like toys. I think it’s commendable of both of you.

 

[NoWings]

Paganism involves a lot of things. A ‘pagan’ is one who adheres to a polytheistic religion; or rampant sexual cravings - he or she is also a ‘hedonist’ - a person whose life is devoted to the pursuit of pleasure and self-gratification. Most hedonists suffer from narcissism.

Wow… ‘Rampant sexual cravings?’

ALL people are devoted to self-gratification, whether it be here or in the hereafter.

You do not have a ‘faith’. You have a self-centered set of amoral beliefs that are based on how you feel on any given day.

Well, since you seem to be telling pagans what they believe, I’ll just go ahead and do the same to Catholicism.

Catholics have a set of rules so mind-numbingly twisted, bottomless, and cherry-picked that no human being can ever hope to follow them all, thus making all feel ashamed to be human. Better that they be animals.

You do not have a faith. You have a system of spiritual disabling and self-loathing.

Jesus said, “Take up your Cross and follow me.” He didn’t say put it down and I will give you everything to make you healthy, wealthy and wise. You may think you are becoming healthy, wealthy and wise, but sooner or later you will have to face your own personal cross and all you will have left is yourself and God. That is a great moment of humility and reality.

Which doesn’t necessarily have anything to do with Christianity.

This has been always the intent of the Church. Saint Paul also taught that all things should be in moderation. A healthy approach to sex is not to see it as recreational but as God intended. Again, your beliefs are based on a self-centeredness that goes with how you feel at any time of the day.

Your set of beliefs are based upon inflexible rules dictated by a Church of virgins and eunuchs.

The Church’s ethic code is based on Christ’s only commandment that He gave us: LOVE OTHERS AS I HAVE LOVED YOU." If you can’t see outside of yourself and empathize with the lives of others, then you are way off the mark.

One can just feel the love for others just oozing from this post.

Catholics can be the most self-absorbed bunch of people… like YOU have the only claim to ‘looking outside one’s self’.

It has been my experience that progressives are quick to place themselves up on pedestals and intellectually rationalize how much better the world would be if people would only reject Christianity. the fact is, most progressives do very little to help the poor, but their money usually goes to programs that attempt to eliminate them. That is their way of ‘helping’ the poor.

Which has what to do with paganism?

Heathenism, actually, is a conservative pagan religion. Of course, you’re just making up your own definitions, so you may as well disregard that and lump them all under the same umbrella.

I don’t think pagans make up most of the membership of book clubs… you might find them drinking coffee and reading freebies at a local Barnes & Noble or Borders, however.
Pretty cheap, eh?

You probably don’t find many Catholics doing the same.

Most Catholics don’t even know their own Catechism.

 

[cyberwolf001]

I don’t have a pony in this race between you two but I thought I’d be a butt-insky and make a few comments in blue…

I wish you guys wouldn’t respond in the quotes makes replying hard to do.

I hope you’ll give Him a chance again. He’s calling you, loves you, and even when you don’t care about Him, He still loves you just as much.

I’ve given him more chances than I can count. Comes a time when you gotta stop and move on.

And I must point out that many of your statements and opinions seem heavily based on experience and the emotional reaction to bad examples of Catholics. You have mentioned in previous post hypocritical Catholics and you do it again here.

The point I am driving at is that my being Pagan doesn’t make me have the things people think it makes me. An vice versa just being Christian wont make you moral. That is the reason I juxtapose the two.

Some of my friends figure I’d be a wonderful Christian if they could just change who I worship, get me off magic and away from “the world and the flesh”. Of course they forget how deep Paganism can go. Ghosti for example (I’ll explain that if you want).

How do you know what an “improvement” is if you have no standard to go by?

Why do you assume I have no standards to go by?

Paganism has no standard. And how do you decide which standard is right? Ultimately they must be self-centered.

Why do you say this?

We appreciate your charity but I’d like to know where your suspicion, disdain, and hostility toward the idea of the Christ’s love comes from?..

Because love offered that the point of a sword is never love. His statement is literally love me or burn forever, in unending torment, never again experiencing happiness and wishing you had never been born.

Such is not truly, nor can it ever truly be love. But rule via fear.

 

[gurneyhalleck1]

I wish you guys wouldn’t respond in the quotes makes replying hard to do.

Give me an example (in IM if you want) where you gave God a chance for something and He let you down and you know it for a fact? Are we supposed to be giving God a chance anyway? He made us and we’re testing him out if He’s good enough for our pitiful human standards? Isn’t this backwards?
I’ve given him more chances than I can count. Comes a time when you gotta stop and move on.

The point I am driving at is that my being Pagan doesn’t make me have the things people think it makes me. An vice versa just being Christian wont make you moral. That is the reason I juxtapose the two.

Some of my friends figure I’d be a wonderful Christian if they could just change who I worship, get me off magic and away from “the world and the flesh”. Of course they forget how deep Paganism can go. Ghosti for example (I’ll explain that if you want).

Why **I submit to you that you didn’t get your standards of morality from pagans, you got them from the Judeo-Christian world you were born into and reared in. You inherited your morality from Christ whether you like it or not. You fell away from Christ but still carry much of His moral teachings and those of the Bible in general. You weren’t raised a pagan. **do you assume I have no standards to go by?

Why do you say this?

You assume that all Christian missionary movements, all conversions and baptisms came by the sword. Many did, you’re right, but many did not. I became a Catholic without any knights or Visigoths holding a broadsword in my face. Though I must admit, being a medievel fan, that’d be pretty cool! And do your pagan gods not demand love and worship? I seem to remember some pretty vengeful, jealous, even sex-mongering, petty, angry folks in those norse and Greek and other pagan pantheons of gods! Glad Zeus was never petty, vengeaful, demanding or violent!
Because love offered that the point of a sword is never love. His statement is literally love me or burn forever, in unending torment, never again experiencing happiness and wishing you had never been born.
I think you underestimate what God has already done for you in your life and you want a God who doesn’t expect you to love Him, who is a simpering sap who has no standards, no punishments. There are always ramifications for sin in any culture…any religion…any philosophy…
Such is not truly, nor can it ever truly be love. But rule via fear.

 

[cyberwolf001]

Guess your not gonna stop replying inside the quotes are you?

Give me an example (in IM if you want) where you gave God

Go through my posting history back to my very first days here and you can follow my time as a Catholic.

Are we supposed to be giving God a chance anyway?

Your the one that mention give him a chance. Of course many Christians talk of giving Jesus a chance but then getting offended when a possible convert goes “Maybe I’ll give him a try.”

I submit to you that you didn’t get your standards of morality from pagans, you got them from the Judeo-Christian world you were born into and reared in. You inherited your morality from Christ whether you like it or not.

I’d counter submit our culture today is more Pagan than Christian. Tolerance for other faiths, non-essential work on Sundays, the idea one can merit a good after life and so on.

You fell away from Christ but still carry much of His moral teachings and those of the Bible in general.

Only the ones that are universal.

You assume that all Christian missionary movements, all conversions and baptisms came by the sword.

The majority, without such and the laws that forbid it Christianity might never have become a major force. In short Christianity cannot last in a free market of religions as a major player. You can see this even today with people desperate to keep others from reading our materials or seeing our events.

And do your pagan gods not demand love and worship?

Worship and honor. Love they never demanded because love cannot be demanded.

I seem to remember some pretty vengeful, jealous, even sex-mongering, petty, angry folks in those norse and Greek and other pagan pantheons of gods! Glad Zeus was never petty, vengeaful, demanding or violent!

That they are just like the Trinity. Difference is our Gods never claim to be perfect.

I think you underestimate what God has already done for you in your life

All I have now is a result of the goodness of my Gods and the blessings they give onto me.

and you want a God who doesn’t expect you to love Him

I want gods that understand love can never be compelled through fear but rather must be gained and work done to maintain it. Two separate one time events that I cannot be sure happened that occurred centuries before my birth do not and cannot count.

who is a simpering sap who has no standards, no punishments.

You don’t know my gods very well do you.

 

[gurneyhalleck1]

Hard to teach an old Catholic quotation dog new tricks

Guess your not gonna stop replying inside the quotes are you?

To be quite honest, I am not one of those folks that goes prying back into your posting past. It feels like spying to me and I’d rather hear your narrative, reasoning, and actually I don’t want to spend four hours reading it. A combination of not wanting to pry and respecting your privacy plus laziness lol
Go through my posting history back to my very first days here and you can follow my time as a Catholic.

Very true. Guess that was poor wording on my part and broke my own rules of viewing God didn’t I?
Your the one that mention give him a chance. Of course many Christians talk of giving Jesus a chance but then getting offended when a possible convert goes “Maybe I’ll give him a try.”

Can’t totally argue with that. Most people don’t view the word “sin” as even being relevent. Unless you kidnap a kid or blow up a mall, not much is a sin to people these days.
I’d counter submit our culture today is more Pagan than Christian. Tolerance for other faiths, non-essential work on Sundays, the idea one can merit a good after life and so on.

I think you’ve taken with you more of Christ’s teachings than you’d like to admit, you just for some reason quit loving the one who spoke the words
Only the ones that are universal.

You look at Christianity with forensics and with the cold view of a historian or analyst rather than a person of faith. From our point of vew, the Holy Spirit guided the Church throughout history. It wasn’t mere happenstance that Christianity just happened to fall into the right place, with the right people at the right time. Was it just a stroke of luck that Charles Martel staved off the Muslim hordes and kept them from taking Europe? Or was it God on his side? I choose the later…
The majority, without such and the laws that forbid it Christianity might never have become a major force. In short Christianity cannot last in a free market of religions as a major player. You can see this even today with people desperate to keep others from reading our materials or seeing our events.

Worship and honor. Love they never demanded because love cannot be demanded.

That they are just like the Trinity. Difference is our Gods never claim to be perfect.

How can you be sure these gifts have been given to you by your gods you’ve adopted from paganism?
All I have now is a result of the goodness of my Gods and the blessings they give onto me.

I want gods that understand love can never be compelled through fear but rather must be gained and work done to maintain it. Two separate one time events that I cannot be sure happened that occurred centuries before my birth do not and cannot count.

There is only One God, Wolf, all others are folly, statues, and reflections of ourselves and our own wants, desires, and internalizations of hope. I don’t believe in idolatry or pagan views of polytheism, etc. So in short, no.
You don’t know my gods very well do you.

 

[cyberwolf001]

Hard to teach an old Catholic quotation dog new tricks

Okay let me find the spray bottle and newspaper…

Very true. Guess that was poor wording on my part and broke my own rules of viewing God didn’t I?

That’ll be fifteen decades of the Rosary. An none of the Luminous Mystery stuff Mister!

Can’t totally argue with that. Most people don’t view the word “sin” as even being relevent. Unless you kidnap a kid or blow up a mall, not much is a sin to people these days.

I think you’ve taken with you more of Christ’s teachings than you’d like to admit, you just for some reason quit loving the one who spoke the words

You look at Christianity with forensics and with the cold view of a historian or analyst rather than a person of faith. From our point of vew, the Holy Spirit guided the Church throughout history. It wasn’t mere happenstance that Christianity just happened to fall into the right place, with the right people at the right time. Was it just a stroke of luck that Charles Martel staved off the Muslim hordes and kept them from taking Europe? Or was it God on his side?

Well obviously you’d see it that way. Just as I see the hand of the gods in every revival that has come about.

How can you be sure these gifts have been given to you by your gods you’ve adopted from paganism?

Well if it is, as some Christians I know suggest, Jesus. I am certainly being tricked by him as these blessings come when I do Pagan rituals.

There is only One God, Wolf, all others are folly, statues, and reflections of ourselves and our own wants, desires, and internalizations of hope. I don’t believe in idolatry or pagan views of polytheism, etc. So in short, no.

Didn’t think so.

 

[gurneyhalleck1]

Okay let me find the spray bottle and newspaper…

Ooh, I love the Luminous Mysteries! In fact, they’re my favorites! Focusing on the Eucharist is my thing!
That’ll be fifteen decades of the Rosary. An none of the Luminous Mystery stuff Mister!

I think you’ve taken with you more of Christ’s teachings than you’d like to admit, you just for some reason quit loving the one who spoke the words

From a pagan point of view, I wonder why the pagan gods permitted the false religion of Christianity in all its forms to take over the Earth to such a high degree, spread all over Western Europe into the New World, cover over the pantheons of the Greeks, Persian Zoastrian gods, the Mayan and Aztec religions, and all the other non-Christian/Jewish gods? Then there’s Islam. It’s weird how the polytheistic pagan gods permitted so much monotheism to spread and engulf the majority of the world. The Middle East is all monotheist save some tiny pockets of Zoroastrians in Iran and some Coptic and Melkite Christianity, etc. I wonder what the gods were thinking?
Well obviously you’d see it that way. Just as I see the hand of the gods in every revival that has come about.

**What types of rituals are you performing? And how do you know that Satan isn’t performing these ‘blessings’ for you to keep you away from his nemesis, Christ? Satan works through paganism and the occult. That’s well-known. What a blow it would be to go through one’s whole life feeling blessed and protected by a group of deities only to find out it’s the Prince of Lies. IMO, that’s the source of your granted wishes…watch out! **
Well if it is, as some Christians I know suggest, Jesus. I am certainly being tricked by him as these blessings come when I do Pagan rituals.

Yeah, well…
Didn’t think so.