Neocatechumenal Way Given Full Approval by Vatican

[Walking_Home]

Once again, all of those things would have been extinguished if they were so illegitimate. I am sorry that this lady had an experience that may not be thrilling. I am happy to hear that she found a new Marian devotion, and if that’s what makes her closer to God, then we know that He is acting in her history. (I want to add that the way has a huge Marian devotion, as an icon of the Madonna and Child is displayed during all functions). However she makes it seem like a cult. The liturgy on Saturday night lasts about an hour and a half, not the widely presumed 3 or 4 hours. Priests and catechists do not stress the idea that the Way is the only Way (I actually personally think that it should be reffered to as “a” Way ) The argument of the way of receiving the Eucharist should have ended last week with the official approval of the statutes. Rome’s decision is final, and we must accept what the Roman Curia says whether we like it or not. This woman still says that good things still can come from this Way, and it does! Look at the massive number of people it has brought back from the Church, the number of vocations it has fostered, and a revival of spirit it has brought unto it’s parishes. If the Mass used is so skewed, why was the only major change in the reception of the Body and Blood standing? The Neocatechumal Way is a reality that all Catholics must know exists within the Church and has been approved, but definitely do not have to abide by. In my household there is a copy of the statues that were approved for a period of ad experimentium in 2002 and included is the catechesis used. I do not think that Rome has had an oversight in respect to the catechesis and any heresies would have been corrected, if they even existed in the first place.

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Let me introduce you to Instruction Redemptionis Sacramentum. A document issued by the Vatican to stop abuses.

vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/ccdds/documents/rc_con_ccdds_doc_20040423_redemptionis-sacramentum_en.html

The priest taking communion with the rest of the “assembly”.

1. The Communion of Priests

[97.] A Priest must communicate at the altar at the moment laid down by the Missal each time he celebrates Holy Mass, and the concelebrants must communicate before they proceed with the distribution of Holy Communion. The Priest celebrant or a concelebrant is never to wait until the people’s Communion is concluded before receiving Communion himself.[183]

The crumbs from the bread

[171.] Among the various abuses there are some which are objectively graviora delicta or otherwise constitute grave matters, as well as others which are nonetheless to be carefully avoided and corrected. Bearing in mind everything that is treated especially in Chapter I of this Instruction, attention should be paid to what follows.

1. Graviora delicta

[172.] Graviora delicta against the sanctity of the Most August Sacrifice and Sacrament of the Eucharist are to be handled in accordance with the ‘Norms concerning graviora delicta reserved to the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith’,[280] namely:

a) taking away or retaining the consecrated species for sacrilegious ends, or the throwing them away;[281]

 

[Walking_Home]

Another thing --Mattm09. The document Redemptionis Sacramentum was issued in 2004. Note that “sitting” for communion is not a valid option for receiving communion.

1. The distribution of Holy Communion

[90.] “The faithful should receive Communion kneeling or standing, as the Conference of Bishops will have determined”, with its acts having received the recognitio of the Apostolic See. “However, if they receive Communion standing, it is recommended that they give due reverence before the reception of the Sacrament, as set forth in the same norms”

 

[mattm09]

I never objected to the changes demanded by the Holy See, but thank you for showing me that. Note that changes on the reception of communion was the only major change in the Mass used by the way.

EDIT: Once again, the crumbs are not disposed of irreverently. Just like the rest of the Church, all of the crumbs are consumed. I remember a priest was very upset when the bread that was baked was too “dusty” and he did not use it.

 

[benedictgal]

Kiko did not believe that they were merely “directives.” Changes demanded by the Holy Father are already evident.

The Neocatechumenal Way was a fruit of Vatican II, which completely changed the rubrics of the Mass. Are you saying the College of Cardinals and the Holy Father himself with their infalliability have no right to change the Mass, since in reality it is the Holy Spirit acting through them?

Your last point is completely false. On Holy Thursday, our community took part in the Last Supper Mass, and then we went on to have a “Word” afterwards. The same thing with Stations of the Cross on Good Friday. We did not do only our “own thing” but did something in addition. It is very odd how people criticize things they know little about.

First of all, you cannot equate what happened after the Council to what the Neocats did with the Mass. Redemptionis Sacramentum is very clear as to just who has the authority to make any changes to the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass:

11.] The Mystery of the Eucharist “is too great for anyone to permit himself to treat it according to his own whim, so that its sacredness and its universal ordering would be obscured”.27 On the contrary, anyone who acts thus by giving free rein to his own inclinations, even if he is a Priest, injures the substantial unity of the Roman Rite, which ought to be vigorously preserved,28 and becomes responsible for actions that are in no way consistent with the hunger and thirst for the living God that is experienced by the people today. Nor do such actions serve authentic pastoral care or proper liturgical renewal; instead, they deprive Christ’s faithful of their patrimony and their heritage. For arbitrary actions are not conducive to true renewal,29 but are detrimental to the right of Christ’s faithful to a liturgical celebration that is an expression of the Church’s life in accordance with her tradition and discipline. In the end, they introduce elements of distortion and disharmony into the very celebration of the Eucharist, which is oriented in its own lofty way and by its very nature to signifying and wondrously bringing about the communion of divine life and the unity of the People of God.30 The result is uncertainty in matters of doctrine, perplexity and scandal on the part of the People of God, and, almost as a necessary consequence, vigorous opposition, all of which greatly confuse and sadden many of Christ’s faithful in this age of ours when Christian life is often particularly difficult on account of the inroads of “secularization” as well.31

This does not apply to liturgical movements. You may be a recognized movement within the Church, but, you have no authority whatsover to celebrate the Mass as you please.

I attended this particular liturgy by accident. I had an elderly priest with me who needed to meet with the celebrant (who was very reluctant about this particular liturgy). The priest who was with me, although suffering from the beginning stages of Alzheimer’s, whispered in my ear, “Is this Catholic?” Even in his condition he was able to recognize that there was something very wrong. Furthermore, the service lasted quite a while.

Now, your community may be different. However, my own personal experience and research indicates otherwise.

Regarding Holy Week, the community in my diocese celebrated its own Washing of the Feet and had its own rituals. In fact, while the faithful were gathered at the church, the Neocats met at the parish hall. This is certainly not the most appropriate
manner in which to celebrate the Paschal Triduum.

When I had gone to visit the Church (as part of my seven-church pilgrimage on Holy Thursday), the Neocats were still at it. The sacristan told me that “they seem to have their own religion.” He, too, reported that they had conducted their own rituals, which was confirmed by one of the Neocats.

 

[benedictgal]

I never objected to the changes demanded by the Holy See, but thank you for showing me that. Note that changes on the reception of communion was the only major change in the Mass used by the way.

EDIT: Once again, the crumbs are not disposed of irreverently. Just like the rest of the Church, all of the crumbs are consumed. I remember a priest was very upset when the bread that was baked was too “dusty” and he did not use it.

First of all, you are mistaken. There were a plethora of problems with the Mass.

The Neocatechumenals typically celebrate the Mass in the form of a banquet, around a large square table, taking communion seated. Moreover, together with the homily, the give a great deal of latitude for the spontaneous comments of those present.

According to Redemptionis Sacramentum, this is not what the homily should be:

[64.] The homily, which is given in the course of the celebration of Holy Mass and is a part of the Liturgy itself,142 “should ordinarily be given by the Priest celebrant himself. He may entrust it to a concelebrating Priest or occasionally, according to circumstances, to a Deacon, but never to a layperson.143 In particular cases and for a just cause, the homily may even be given by a Bishop or a Priest who is present at the celebration but cannot concelebrate”.144

[65.] It should be borne in mind that any previous norm that may have admitted non-ordained faithful to give the homily during the Eucharistic celebration is to be considered abrogated by the norm of canon 767 §1.145 This practice is reprobated, so that it cannot be permitted to attain the force of custom.

[66.] The prohibition of the admission of laypersons to preach within the Mass applies also to seminarians, students of theological disciplines, and those who have assumed the function of those known as “pastoral assistants”; nor is there to be any exception for any other kind of layperson, or group, or community, or association.146

These particular practices are abuses that the Holy Father has deemed reprobated.

Unfortunately, most of the Neocats took what the Holy Father and Cardinal Arinze said as merely suggestions and not orders, as Chiesa reports:

On December 1, 2005, Cardinal Francis Arinze, prefect of the congregation for divine worship, sent them a letter, in the name of the pope, to call them back to faithful observance of the liturgical regulations. And the following January 12, Benedict XVI in person urged them to obey. But in practice, this twofold reminder fell on deaf ears almost everywhere.

When we make the movement more important than the Church, then there is a serious problem.

I believe that rather than merely go by what Kiko Gomez states, you need to read what the Universal Church teaches. If there weren’t so many problems with the Neocats, Rome would not have taken this long to approve them and personally intervene regarding their handling of the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass.

 

[Walking_Home]

:nope:

209.85.215.104/search?q=cache:HX6keU9UIHcJ:www.geocities.com/Athens/Delphi/6919/E_ROCCA.htm+neocatechumenate+crumbs&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=4&gl=us
OPEN DEBATE with A NEO-CATECHUMENATE

At St. John’s Basilica in Laterano, a woman from Rome went to pick up some small pieces of consecrated bread that had fallen to the floor and been stepped on. When your catechists pointed this woman out she was surrounded by people, like by a lasso, and blocked off from going over to collect the consecrated bread crumbs. This is your reverence for the Blessed Sacrament. For you, when Mass is over, Jesus is no longer present. And more evidence of this is that you never genuflect before the Eucharist. But when someone pulls out the history of Kiko, whoever stands up for that … it’s like someone being resurrected. But those who are resurrected won’t stand up, or kneel or sit because they are resurrected.

whispersintheloggia.blogspot.com/2005/10/neocats-at-issue.html#comments

Chuck White said

A NeoCat priest (we call’m “neo” here in Guam) told me that they deliberately de-emphasize the sacrificial aspects of the Mass. Well, they would do well to heed Pope John Paul II’s warning: “Unfortunately, alongside these lights, there are also shadows… At times one encounters an extremely reductive understanding of the Eucharistic mystery. Stripped of its sacrificial meaning, it is celebrated as if it were simply a fraternal banquet.” Pope John Paul II, Ecclesia de Eucharistia 10

 

[mattm09]

:nope:

209.85.215.104/search?q=cache:HX6keU9UIHcJ:www.geocities.com/Athens/Delphi/6919/E_ROCCA.htm+neocatechumenate+crumbs&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=4&gl=us
OPEN DEBATE with A NEO-CATECHUMENATE

At St. John’s Basilica in Laterano, a woman from Rome went to pick up some small pieces of consecrated bread that had fallen to the floor and been stepped on. When your catechists pointed this woman out she was surrounded by people, like by a lasso, and blocked off from going over to collect the consecrated bread crumbs. This is your reverence for the Blessed Sacrament. For you, when Mass is over, Jesus is no longer present. And more evidence of this is that you never genuflect before the Eucharist. But when someone pulls out the history of Kiko, whoever stands up for that … it’s like someone being resurrected. But those who are resurrected won’t stand up, or kneel or sit because they are resurrected.

whispersintheloggia.blogspot.com/2005/10/neocats-at-issue.html#comments

Chuck White said

A NeoCat priest (we call’m “neo” here in Guam) told me that they deliberately de-emphasize the sacrificial aspects of the Mass. Well, they would do well to heed Pope John Paul II’s warning: “Unfortunately, alongside these lights, there are also shadows… At times one encounters an extremely reductive understanding of the Eucharistic mystery. Stripped of its sacrificial meaning, it is celebrated as if it were simply a fraternal banquet.” Pope John Paul II, Ecclesia de Eucharistia 10

1. This page was written and posted on Geocities and was written by an engineer. Please use more credible sources. The text you excerpted couldn’t be any more false. Once again the stress of Real Presence is especially emphasized. I know this first hand! I am testifying as someone who has heard words and seen actions that prove that the importance of small crumbs has not been diminished.
2. The Holy Father is ambiguous when he speaks about these shadows. I highly doubt that he would have been a supporter of the Neocatechumenate if he found it to be so heretical.

 

[Walking_Home]

For decades the Arguello has deceived the elect----but the truth of the Neocatechumenal Way is surfacing.

 

[Walking_Home]

. This woman still says that good things still can come from this Way, and it does! Look at the massive number of people it has brought back from the Church, the number of vocations it has fostered, and a revival of spirit it has brought unto it’s parishes. If the Mass used is so skewed, why was the only major change in the reception of the Body and Blood standing? The Neocatechumal Way is a reality that all Catholics must know exists within the Church and has been approved, but definitely do not have to abide by. In my household there is a copy of the statues that were approved for a period of ad experimentium in 2002 and included is the catechesis used. I do not think that Rome has had an oversight in respect to the catechesis and any heresies would have been corrected, if they even existed in the first place.

Quote=nightengale
I am praying that Kiko and Carmen will be brought in line and that true and healthy fruit can issue from this way. They are good at Evangelising and Vocations but into Christianity but not into the true Catholic Church.

---

I included above what nightengale said. Her words —for true and healthy fruit —Kiko and Carmen need to be brought in line. That is not happening. Arguello has and is creating his own “Church” in competition with the Catholic Church.

This is the “fruit” of the Neocatechumenal Way. Good at evangelizing and vocations into Christianity ----but Not into the true Catholic Church. The Neocatechumenal Way is creating protestants —Not Catholics. The “vocations” are not good fruit for the Catholic Church —for they serve Arguello in expanding his own erroneous “Church”.

 

[mattm09]

Quote=nightengale
I am praying that Kiko and Carmen will be brought in line and that true and healthy fruit can issue from this way. They are good at Evangelising and Vocations but into Christianity but not into the true Catholic Church.

---

I included above what nightengale said. Her words —for true and healthy fruit —Kiko and Carmen need to be brought in line. That is not happening. Arguello has and is creating his own “Church” in competition with the Catholic Church.

This is the “fruit” of the Neocatechumenal Way. Good at evangelizing and vocations into Christianity ----but Not into the true Catholic Church. The Neocatechumenal Way is creating protestants —Not Catholics. The “vocations” are not good fruit for the Catholic Church —for they serve Arguello in expanding his own erroneous “Church”.

The real truth is that the Neocatechumenal Way is a reality that must be accepted, but not necessarily followed. Pope Benedict XVI once said “Do not extinguish these charisms” and also went on to say “If the Lord gives us new gifts we must give thanks… And it is something beautiful that, without an initiative of the hierarchy … new forms of life are born in the Church, as they were born in all the centuries.” He does go on to say that charisms must stay obedient, and mostly are. forums.catholic-questions.org/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=3860386With movements as large as the NCW, it can be hard to regulate. This is also true in the Church as a whole (Clown Mass etc.) forums.catholic-questions.org/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=3860386

The experiences of one person can be misconstrued to their own bias, hence I give you solid citations from none other than Zenit. These accusations you throw are so naive and misconstrued. I notice people on these forums do not criticize SSPX. If anything they are more rebellious since they openly are in a battle with Rome. Arguello and Hernandez actually went to Rome for approval, which has not been done by many lay societies in the Church.

Your accusation of the vocations fostered by the NCW only supporting Arguello is disgusting. Please read this article and tell me that Cardinal Ryklo is supporting vocations to Kiko’s new “Church.”

 

[Walking_Home]

The real truth is that the Neocatechumenal Way is a reality that must be accepted, but not necessarily followed. Pope Benedict XVI once said “Do not extinguish these charisms” and also went on to say “If the Lord gives us new gifts we must give thanks… And it is something beautiful that, without an initiative of the hierarchy … new forms of life are born in the Church, as they were born in all the centuries.” He does go on to say that charisms must stay obedient, and mostly are. forums.catholic-questions.org/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=3860386With movements as large as the NCW, it can be hard to regulate. This is also true in the Church as a whole (Clown Mass etc.) forums.catholic-questions.org/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=3860386

The experiences of one person can be misconstrued to their own bias, hence I give you solid citations from none other than Zenit. These accusations you throw are so naive and misconstrued. I notice people on these forums do not criticize SSPX. If anything they are more rebellious since they openly are in a battle with Rome. Arguello and Hernandez actually went to Rome for approval, which has not been done by many lay societies in the Church.

Your accusation of the vocations fostered by the NCW only supporting Arguello is disgusting. Please read this article and tell me that Cardinal Ryklo is supporting vocations to Kiko’s new “Church.”

---

You are wrong — To acknowledge that the Neocatechumenal Way has been “approved” — does not mean ----one is under the obligation to “accept” them.

My statement that the vocations fostered by the NCW only support Arguello is disgusting only when one tries to hide the truth. The fact that in Japan the NCW has tried to take the diocese right from under the Japanese Bishops —points to were the NCW loyalty lies —Not with the Church.

 

[mattm09]

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You are wrong — we acknowledge that the Neocatechumenal Way has been “approved” but no one has to “accept” them.

My statement that the vocations fostered by the NCW only support Arguello is disgusting only when one tries to hide the truth. The fact that in Japan the NCW has tried to take the diocese right from under the Japanese Bishops —points to were the NCW loyalty lies —Not with the Church.

You are twisting my words, I never said you have to accept it as something you must do, but you must accept the fact that it is something very alive in the Church. I made it an important point that it isn’t something that must be followed, just accepted as a reality.

Please cite your second argument. It is unclear, airy, and uncited. I’m sure if I searched Zenit or CNS it would pop up.

 

[mattm09]

Sorry, I noticed I actually forgot to paste the link to the article regarding vocations…

Pope Thanks Neocatechumenal Way for Vocations It Inspires (MARCH 18, 2004) zenit.org/article-9669?l=english

What Vocational Crisis? (SEPT. 4, 2007) zenit.org/article-20409?l=english

 

[Walking_Home]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Walking_Home
You are wrong — we acknowledge that the Neocatechumenal Way has been “approved” but no one has to “accept” them.

My statement that the vocations fostered by the NCW only support Arguello is disgusting only when one tries to hide the truth. The fact that in Japan the NCW has tried to take the diocese right from under the Japanese Bishops —points to were the NCW loyalty lies —Not with the Church.

You are twisting my words, I never said you have to accept it as something you must do, but you must accept the fact that it is something very alive in the Church. I made it an important point that it isn’t something that must be followed, just accepted as a reality.

Please cite your second argument. It is unclear, airy, and uncited. I’m sure if I searched Zenit or CNS it would pop up.

Quote=mattm09
The real truth is that the Neocatechumenal Way is a reality that must be accepted, but not necessarily followed.

---

You words were ----that must be accepted–but not necessarily followed.

My response – we acknowledge the NCW “approval” --but no one has to accept them. The “approval” places no obligation on anyone to accept the NCW.

Japanese bishops appeal to Vatican in clash with NeoCatechumenate.

cwnews.com/news/viewstory.cfm?recnum=58150

Vatican, Apr. 30, 2008 (CWNews.com) - A delegation of bishops from Japan visited the Vatican this week, hoping to resolve a conflict with the NeoCatechumenal Way, which operates a seminary in Japan, the UCA News service reports.

The visit by four Japanese bishops was the third such trip to Rome. “We hate to come so often but we had to give the serious nature of the problem that needs to be resolved”, Archbishop Okada of Tokyo, president of the bishops’ conference, told UCA News.

The archbishop said that the NeoCatechumenate had caused “sharp painful division and strife within the Church in Japan.” He characterized the lay movement as a group engaged in “powerful sect-like activity” that was damaging the unity of the small Catholic community in Japan.

 

[mattm09]

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You words were ----that must be accepted–but not necessarily followed.

My response – we acknowledge the NCW “approval” --but no one has to accept them. The “approval” places no obligation on anyone to accept the NCW.

Japanese bishops appeal to Vatican in clash with NeoCatechumenate.

cwnews.com/news/viewstory.cfm?recnum=58150

Vatican, Apr. 30, 2008 (CWNews.com) - A delegation of bishops from Japan visited the Vatican this week, hoping to resolve a conflict with the NeoCatechumenal Way, which operates a seminary in Japan, the UCA News service reports.

The visit by four Japanese bishops was the third such trip to Rome. “We hate to come so often but we had to give the serious nature of the problem that needs to be resolved”, Archbishop Okada of Tokyo, president of the bishops’ conference, told UCA News.

The archbishop said that the NeoCatechumenate had caused “sharp painful division and strife within the Church in Japan.” He characterized the lay movement as a group engaged in “powerful sect-like activity” that was damaging the unity of the small Catholic community in Japan.

For the third time accepted as something real, not accepted as a thing that all must follow.

And to that article, I find it funny how my research on that site points it out to have traditional leanings, and how the strife may possibly be something such as the disagreement between those against and for the NCW. If the problem was so serious, the dioceses there would halt all seminary function.

 

[Walking_Home]

For the third time accepted as something real, not accepted as a thing that all must follow.

And to that article, I find it funny how my research on that site points it out to have traditional leanings, and how the strife may possibly be something such as the disagreement between those against and for the NCW. If the problem was so serious, the dioceses there would halt all seminary function.

---

It does not work to try to deflect the content of the news article in such manner.

ROME (UCAN) – In an extraordinary move, the Japanese Bishops’ Conference sent a delegation last week to discuss with Pope Benedict XVI “the serious problem” they are having with the Neocatechumenal Way and its seminary in Takamatsu diocese.

ucanews.com/2008/04/29/japanese-bishops-meet-pope-for-second-time-in-five-months/

“Another matter would be The Neocatechumenal Way (the Way) and the International Takamatsu Diocesan Seminary known as Redemptoris Mater. We have here a serious problem. In the small Catholic Church of Japan, the powerful sect-like activity of Way members is divisive and confrontational. It has caused sharp painful division and strife within the Church. We are struggling with all our strength to overcome the problem but feel that if a solution is to be found, the consideration of Your Holiness for the Church in Japan will be of the utmost importance and direly needed.”

“The diocesan seminary is to be ended. The Holy See has agreed that it be closed as a diocesan seminary this year,” he said.

The bishops, he explained, continue to have “serious and deep” problems with the movement that relate to its “way of thinking” and its “attitude” to Japanese culture, liturgy and other issues.

END

 

[mattm09]

---

It does not work to try to deflect the content of the news article in such manner.

ROME (UCAN) – In an extraordinary move, the Japanese Bishops’ Conference sent a delegation last week to discuss with Pope Benedict XVI “the serious problem” they are having with the Neocatechumenal Way and its seminary in Takamatsu diocese.

ucanews.com/2008/04/29/japanese-bishops-meet-pope-for-second-time-in-five-months/

“Another matter would be The Neocatechumenal Way (the Way) and the International Takamatsu Diocesan Seminary known as Redemptoris Mater. We have here a serious problem. In the small Catholic Church of Japan, the powerful sect-like activity of Way members is divisive and confrontational. It has caused sharp painful division and strife within the Church. We are struggling with all our strength to overcome the problem but feel that if a solution is to be found, the consideration of Your Holiness for the Church in Japan will be of the utmost importance and direly needed.”

“The diocesan seminary is to be ended. The Holy See has agreed that it be closed as a diocesan seminary this year,” he said.

The bishops, he explained, continue to have “serious and deep” problems with the movement that relate to its “way of thinking” and its “attitude” to Japanese culture, liturgy and other issues.

END

Notice how Pope Benedict listened but did not address or take action, nor did the head of the Congregation that the bishops approached. Why? Read the title of this thread. The bishop in Japan closed the seminary, not the Holy See, which merely did not disapprove.

 

[Walking_Home]

Notice how Pope Benedict listened but did not address or take action, nor did the head of the Congregation that the bishops approached. Why? Read the title of this thread. The bishop in Japan closed the seminary, not the Holy See, which merely did not disapprove.

---

The Holy See—agreed that the seminary be closed. It does not help you to try to manipulate by changing the Holy See’s agreement that the seminary needed closing—to one —well he merely did not disapprove.

As far as the Congregation—lets just say – Arguello has made “friends” – possibly adherents—in high places that run interference for Him.

 

[mattm09]

---

The Holy See—agreed that the seminary be closed. It does not help you to try to manipulate by changing the Holy See’s agreement that the seminary needed closing—to one —well he merely did not disapprove.

As far as the Congregation—lets just say – Arguello has made “friends” – possibly adherents—in high places that run interference for Him.

Fine I guess you got me there, but agreement isn’t synonymous with action. There are still 74 seminaries across the world, which are diocesean seminaries, not NCW seminaries, unlike those of other movements such as SSPX and Legion of Christ.

Remember, you are just “saying” that Arguello made “friends.” That is mudslinging and is grossly uninformed. I think that the Holy See would be able to tell if a new Church was being formed under their noses. I personally think that you are suggesting that the Holy See is corrupt, am I correct?

 

[Walking_Home]

Fine I guess you got me there, but agreement isn’t synonymous with action. There are still 74 seminaries across the world, which are diocesean seminaries, not NCW seminaries, unlike those of other movements such as SSPX and Legion of Christ.

Remember, you are just “saying” that Arguello made “friends.” That is mudslinging and is grossly uninformed. I think that the Holy See would be able to tell if a new Church was being formed under their noses. I personally think that you are suggesting that the Holy See is corrupt, am I correct?

---

Seems the Pope agreed with the action of closing down the seminary. The Redemptoris Mater seminaries are Neocatechumenal Way seminaries. Thankfully — there will now be one less.

I am not saying the whole of the Holy See is corrupt —but that Arugello has had the time to make “friends” in high places–possibly adherents.

The possibly adherents derives from the following. When a man with the office of Archbishop pushes for the entire Church to go Neocatechumenal — that man is “walking the Way”. Now --if there is one —there could be others-- including bishops. And yes—they could possibly be part of a Congregation, Council, etc.

catholicnews.com/data/stories/cns/0507371.htm
Archbishop Anthony Apuron of Agana, Guam, said the entire church should consider adopting some of the Way’s liturgical practices, including restoring “the ‘breadness’ of the bread,” by using the “unleavened bread used in the ancient and primitive church rather than the wafer-thin, mass-produced bread we use as hosts for our people today.”

And, he said, when a priest carries the Eucharist to people who are seated, it fosters more of a sense of community.

“What sort of a banquet does one go to which requires you to stand rather than sit?” Archbishop Apuron asked.