Neocon

[Arba_Sicula]

gilliam:

You are incorrect

No. I said, “Neo-con to me…” not “Neo-cons are…”

 

[gilliam]

Arba Sicula:

No. I said, “Neo-con to me…” not “Neo-cons are…”

ok

Did you see Robert’s post above? I think that just might work.

 

[Arba_Sicula]

Robert Bay:

How about:

Avoid categorizing people by a term which could be considered derogatory (e.g., Nazi or neocon) unless they have embraced that title. In which case, you may qualify them with the term as long as you preface it with the word “avowed.” Posters are asked to use their best judgement when posting articles using such terms.

Will that work?

Sounds good.

And - We’re still free to refer to each other as “conservative” or “liberal” two equally pejorative terms.

 

[gilliam]

Arba Sicula:

Sounds good.

And - We’re still free to refer to each other as “conservative” or “liberal” two equally pejorative terms.

Or Left and Right and we are not French!

 

[Peter_Wright]

Arba Sicula:

Sounds good.

And - We’re still free to refer to each other as “conservative” or “liberal” two equally pejorative terms.

Conservative and liberal are both equally accepted terms to describe political ideologies. Granted they could be used in a perjorative sense, so I recommend that everyone follow the forum rules and play nice. I would recommend that we follow one of the conduct rules and not abbreviate it, thus using the word Neo-conservative. Typing it out may result in a decrease in the opportunism to use it as a slander.

 

[abcdefg]

gilliam:

Or Left and Right and we are not French!

French? you know Freedom fries = French fries
so when that Cindy Sheehan was talking about freedom fighters can you believe she means French fighters?

 

[Jeffrey]

dictionary.reference.com/search?q=neoconservative

2 entries found for neoconservative.

ne·o·con·ser·va·tism also ne·o-con·ser·va·tism ( P ) Pronunciation Key
n. An intellectual and political movement in favor of political, economic, and social conservatism that arose in opposition to the perceived liberalism of the 1960s: “The neo-conservatism of the 1980s is a replay of the New Conservatism of the 1950s, which was itself a replay of the New Era philosophy of the 1920s” (Arthur M. Schlesinger, Jr.). nehttp://cache.lexico.com/dictionary/graphics/AHD4/GIF/lprime.gifo·con·serhttp://cache.lexico.com/dictionary/graphics/AHD4/GIF/prime.gifva·tive adj. & n.
Download Now or Buy the Book]
Source: The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition
Copyright © 2000 by Houghton Mifflin Company.
Published by Houghton Mifflin Company. All rights reserved.
neoconservative

n : a conservative who subscribes to neoconservativism [syn: http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=neocon”]neocon]

Source: WordNet ® 2.0, © 2003 Princeton University

 

[KathleenElsie]

Ani Ibi:

I have read the wikipedia entry. I feel that the pejorative tone associated with ‘neocon’ is simply the sneer attached when addressing people who follow neocon political philosophy: the same sneer attached to the legitimate term ‘libertarian.’ The sneer is not going to go away simply by forbidding the use of the term ‘neocon.’

If neocon in and of itself meant something disrespectful then I would be more hardline about forbidding the use of the term. But it has no such intrinsic meaning. If a decision is made to forbid the term then what are we going to call ourselves/them? The new right? Nouveaux conservateurs? It ends up being six of one and half a dozen of the other imho.

Perhaps the problem also lies in the overfamiliar abbreviation of ‘neo-conservative.’ But we have already had that out. That is already a rule and has only to be applied.

I am not aware of the indirect slur against Jews. I would like to know more about that because, if this is the case, I am definitely against using ‘neocon.’ I think the test is whether the term can be used legitimately or is always a slur.

I think that as long as it is taken as a slur it should be avoided. There are many other words or phrases we can use to get our point through to others. Why take the chance of offending someone needlessly?

 

[KathleenElsie]

Peter Wright:

Conservative and liberal are both equally accepted terms to describe political ideologies. Granted they could be used in a perjorative sense, so I recommend that everyone follow the forum rules and play nice. I would recommend that we follow one of the conduct rules and not abbreviate it, thus using the word Neo-conservative. Typing it out may result in a decrease in the opportunism to use it as a slander.

IMHO this is the best way to handle it. Just as we do not let other abbreviations just ban this one. Then the intent is clear.

 

[Ani_Ibi]

KathleenElsie:

I think that as long as it is taken as a slur it should be avoided. There are many other words or phrases we can use to get our point through to others. Why take the chance of offending someone needlessly?

Like what? What precise term can you offer to replace ‘neocon’?

 

[Ani_Ibi]

Robert Bay:

How about:

Avoid categorizing people by a term which could be considered derogatory (e.g., Nazi or neocon) unless they have embraced that title. In which case, you may qualify them with the term as long as you preface it with the word “avowed.” Posters are asked to use their best judgement when posting articles using such terms.

Will that work?

‘Avowed’ neocon works for me. And ‘avowed neo-conservative’ works even better for me. Indeed having to type it out may have us avoiding it altogether. Now if only we could find very long words for other suspect terminology!

 

[gilliam]

‘Avowed’ neocon works for me. And ‘avowed neo-conservative’ works even better for me. Indeed having to type it out may have us avoiding it altogether. Now if only we could find very long words for other suspect terminology!

Do you think I may be too quick to find fault with things and people, Zippy?
Yeh.
Th’ ‘floccinaucinihilipilification’ process.
Th’ what?
Floccinaucinihilipilification!! It means ‘the estimation of something as valueless’!
You’ve been randomly reading th’ dictionary, haven’t you?
Yes. That and my natural tendency toward antifloccinaucinihilipilification!!

–March 14, 1996, in “Zippy,” a comic strip distributed by King Features Syndicate

 

[BLB_Oregon]

There is in the Republican party a conservative movement of recent vintage, one that departs from the manner and objectives of conservatives of the past who, for instance, would not dream of saying out loud that they favored deficit spending. Since the “traditional” conservatives have hardly disappeared from the scene, please allow a shorthand way of distinguishing the different political philosophies that now claim the title of “conservative.”

As for whether Neo-con is a perjorative term… I hate to say it, but to a fair number in our country, there is no way to name someone in the opposition without meaning it in a perjorative manner. Until that basic lack of respect is addressed, I fail to see how any terminology that is remotely useful isn’t going to take on a connotation that reflects that basic enmity. I would rather that we bar only those terms whose perjorative meaning is part and parcel of the term itself. The term “femi-nazi” is a prime example. Since the feminists haven’t started rounding people up for concentration camps, associating them with the Nazi party goes over the top.

I wouldn’t think that short-hand should be barred out of hand: I would allow “dink” and “yuppie”, for example. Those aren’t usually meant as terms of endearment, but double-income-no-kids and we-remember-them-as-young-upwardly-mobile-professionals are groups worth being able to refer to. The meaning isn’t all that different if you make us write it out.

 

[Ani_Ibi]

gilliam:

antifloccinaucinihilipilification!!

Oh you mean antifloc!? D-oh!

 

[walstan]

neo- // comb. form
1 new, modern.
2 a new or revived form of.
[Greek from neos ‘new’]

conservative // adj. & n.
adj.
1 a averse to rapid change. b (of views, taste, etc.) moderate; avoiding extremes (conservative in his dress).
2 (of an estimate etc.) purposely low; moderate, cautious.
3 (Conservative) of or characteristic of Conservatives or the Conservative Party.
4 tending to conserve.

Sounds like a contradiction in terms to me, bit like:

Totalitarian Democrat, or Military Intelligence or how about:

Ath-Cath (Atheistic Catholic)

Like any of these terms, in themselves they are a nonsense with no independant meaning, it is only in the context of their usage that understanding of the writer can be attained and in that sense the acceptance or banning of the term is of no consequence, the authors standpoint will remain unchanged.

 

[abcdefg]

walstan:

Ath-Cath (Atheistic Catholic)

That’s Fidel Castro before he was excommunicated

 

[grotto]

I do not agree that the description “feminazi” should not be applied to those women who further the evil of abortion.

The Nazis not only operated death/concentration camps, they engineered abortion and mutilation of God’s babies. What is partial birth abortion? How do you identify those women who use “nice” political power to demand this evil continue as a “good thing”.

Maybe the term hurts somebody’s feelings? Oh, thats not “nice”.
Should their efforts be respected? If a woman is able to openly expound on her view that an abortion or murder of a baby that is fully able to sustain life is “her right” then she is identifying herself as a Nazi imitator.

Does identifying a woman as a feminazi cause people to run to her aid and comfort her? May they all trip and fall!

 

[walstan]

grotto:

I do not agree that the description “feminazi” should not be applied to those women who further the evil of abortion.

The Nazis not only operated death/concentration camps, they engineered abortion and mutilation of God’s babies. What is partial birth abortion? How do you identify those women who use “nice” political power to demand this evil continue as a “good thing”.

Maybe the term hurts somebody’s feelings? Oh, thats not “nice”.
Should their efforts be respected? If a woman is able to openly expound on her view that an abortion or murder of a baby that is fully able to sustain life is “her right” then she is identifying herself as a Nazi imitator.

Does identifying a woman as a feminazi cause people to run to her aid and comfort her? May they all trip and fall!

I wonder what happened to:

Denounce the sin, not the sinner"?

 

[Ani_Ibi]

grotto:

I do not agree that the description “feminazi” should not be applied to those women who further the evil of abortion.

I think that Clinton would call herself a feminist. But I do not think Clinton would call herself a Nazi. And therein lies the rub.

While I think it might be legitimate to draw a compare-and-contrast with someone’s political philosophy and Nazism, doing this is a far cry from actually calling him/her a Nazi.

 

[a_pilgrim]

Mr. Wright,

Given your concern regarding terminology that could carry pejorative implications, might I suggest that we employ the same philosophy and sanctions with regard to the use of the term uniate when referencing members of the Eastern Catholic Churches. In support of your request for a clear-cut definition, I offer the following from Wikipedia:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uniate

…scroll down to "The term Uniat[e]"

Thank you for your consideration.