NeoPagan Friend

  • Thread starter Thread starter TeresTala
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
hi,
i am very concerned about my sister also. we were all raised Catholic and the rest of us are still Catholic,for the most part. she turned jewish when she got married as her husband is jewish, and wanted to raise the children jewish.
but she really seems very new age, and lately has been telling me, mostly through emails that she worships a goddess, and believes in reincarnatiion. jewish people dont believe in that either.
she cut off with most of my family ,except my one sister, me and my dad. my sister and dad sent her emails implying satan is attacking her. she is upset about this as she doesnt believe in satan,hell or Jesus. i am in the middle and not sure what to do. i am trying to love her unconditionally and be a good Catholic example. i feel like my sister and dad might have turned her away more . i am not sure what to do either, besides pray of course.
 
rubycanoe,

Despite their best intentions, your dad and sister may have come on a little strong. 1 Peter 3:15b-16 says,

“Always be prepared to give an answer to everyone who asks you to give the reason for the hope that you have. But do this with gentleness and respect, keeping a clear conscience, so that those who speak maliciously against your good behavior in Christ may be ashamed of their slander.”

I (try to remember!) for someone to ask me what I think. (Sadly, I don’t always do this… especially with my close friends and family. 😦 ) Then I try to be as respectful as possible while still speaking the truth.

An update to my story:

My young pagan friend and I have been discussing salvation and she finally asked the question, “Well, what do you think happens to people like me?” I told her I was always concerned when someone leaves the Christian faith, but that I could not possibly be sure of an individual’s salvation… including hers. There should be no doubt in her mind by now, though, that I think she would be better off with Christ than without!

Thanks to all of you again for all of your prayers and help.

TeresTala
 
Something which always seems to go unnoticed in these neo-pagan type threads is the “neo”. It’s all made up! Can anyone demonstrate to me a continuous unbroken line of priests/priestesses of a pagan god? Dagda? Mithras? Woden/Odin? Quetzalcoatl?..any old pagan god ad infinitum? I can agree on native American religions, aboriginal religion, Santeria and Voodoo which have long and well-documented histories but all these Celtic, Norse, Wiccan etc. wannabes who have made up what THEY think the religion was like cannot in any way, shape, or form defend their “faith” by history… I have met more than my share of these over the years and it is BUNK! serious BUNK!

Shamans? I’m an anthropologist by training. Anyone familiar with the Yanamamo of the Amazon Basin? Serious shamans there. Very, very serious people if they survive the onslaught of the 21st century. How about the shamans in New Guinea? Anyone studied there? I don’t think so. So let’s look at a little plain history. Druids? Wiped out at Anglesey by the Roman army in Britain. St. Patrick took care of Ireland and the Scotti who went to Scotland. Norse/Saxon/Germanic? All converted by the 11th century. When was the last time you saw a “blood eagle”? Wiccans? Late 19th - early 20th century - Gardner. What does that leave you - a totally made up “religion” which has no basis in history.

The most sad thing is that messing with all of this stuff does open the door to the truly evil, the truly demonic. What do these people hope to find? Gaia? More likely Lucifer or one of his minions. These folk think they know what it was like. I often wonder how many of them have ever had a history or anthropology lesson. It might be eye opening for them.
 
40.png
brotherhrolf:
Something which always seems to go unnoticed in these neo-pagan type threads is the “neo”. It’s all made up! Can anyone demonstrate to me a continuous unbroken line of priests/priestesses of a pagan god? Dagda? Mithras? Woden/Odin? Quetzalcoatl?..any old pagan god ad infinitum?
Click to expand...
I think you may be being a bit unfair. You could probably make your argument apply to any religion: at some point, a religious founder, person, or figure claims to have received formerly lost knowledge of a particular deity or a particular truth. The Buddha (in his last lifetime) didn’t receive teachings from another Buddha. Muhammad didn’t meet another prophet on his way to the Arabian wilderness. Abraham likewise claimed to have received direct revelations, without any living person to direct him.

If we grant the possible real existence of spiritual realms containing Mithras, Isis, Wodin, and the like, what’s to stop them from re-appearing to modern-day denizens and re-initiating their lineages?
 
40.png
rubycanoe:
she turned jewish when she got married as her husband is jewish, and wanted to raise the children jewish.
but she really seems very new age, and lately has been telling me, mostly through emails that she worships a goddess, and believes in reincarnatiion. jewish people dont believe in that either.
Click to expand...
Reincarnation is definitely a part of Judaism; not a huge part, but a part nonetheless:

http://www.jewfaq.org/olamhaba.htm

pinenet.com/~rooster/stories.html

http://www.torah.org/learning/ramchal/classes/wog2-3-10.html
 
Ahimsa: I don’t think I’m being all that harsh. Most of the neo-pagan practices I’ve read about are a hodge-podge of ideas drawn very, very loosely from historical accounts written by the Romans or from the early middle ages. The rest seems to be what looks or sounds good at the moment. Buddhism (sp?) and Islam can both point to a long and continuous oral and written history. Their religious ceremonies are based upon this. What do neo-pagans have to base theirs on?

I have just finished reading the Odyssey again. It is rich in prayers and ceremonies to the Greek gods. There’s tons of ancient sources which describe the practices and even prayers. I don’t see neo-pagans worshipping the Greco-Roman gods. Mithras? Isis? Nope. They are drawn to the Celtic pantheon, Norse pantheon or wicca. The first two are not exactly known for recording ceremonies or prayers and the last is a late Victorian period invention.

You alluded to something which is left out of the equation. There is evil and evil often masquerades as light. It’s possible for them to “contact” Dagda or Odin but odds are that it is an evil spirit of one form or another. Nothing good can come out of this. So, in addition to the silliness inherent in this, there is a very real danger of contacting something that ought not to be contacted.
 
40.png
brotherhrolf:
Ahimsa: I don’t think I’m being all that harsh. Most of the neo-pagan practices I’ve read about are a hodge-podge of ideas drawn very, very loosely from historical accounts written by the Romans or from the early middle ages. The rest seems to be what looks or sounds good at the moment. Buddhism (sp?) and Islam can both point to a long and continuous oral and written history. Their religious ceremonies are based upon this. What do neo-pagans have to base theirs on?

I have just finished reading the Odyssey again. It is rich in prayers and ceremonies to the Greek gods. There’s tons of ancient sources which describe the practices and even prayers. I don’t see neo-pagans worshipping the Greco-Roman gods. Mithras? Isis? Nope. They are drawn to the Celtic pantheon, Norse pantheon or wicca. The first two are not exactly known for recording ceremonies or prayers and the last is a late Victorian period invention.

You alluded to something which is left out of the equation. There is evil and evil often masquerades as light. It’s possible for them to “contact” Dagda or Odin but odds are that it is an evil spirit of one form or another. Nothing good can come out of this. So, in addition to the silliness inherent in this, there is a very real danger of contacting something that ought not to be contacted.
Click to expand...
So, are you saying that the Greek deities are/were not demonic?
 
40.png
TeresTala:
She has even admitted that she believes Jesus Christ may be the Son of God. According to her, unfortunately, this is not “her path”.
Click to expand...
This is a wedge. If Christ Jesus is the Son of God, then there are no other paths. If Christ Jesus is the Son of God, everything else he said follows as being true.

– Mark L. Chance.
 
40.png
brotherhrolf:
I don’t see neo-pagans worshipping the Greco-Roman gods. Mithras? Isis? Nope. They are drawn to the Celtic pantheon, Norse pantheon or wicca. The first two are not exactly known for recording ceremonies or prayers and the last is a late Victorian period invention.

You alluded to something which is left out of the equation. There is evil and evil often masquerades as light. It’s possible for them to “contact” Dagda or Odin but odds are that it is an evil spirit of one form or another. Nothing good can come out of this. So, in addition to the silliness inherent in this, there is a very real danger of contacting something that ought not to be contacted.
Click to expand...
Actually brother, many pagans do follow the Greek/Roman pantheon, as well as other pahtheons that have well documented histories of practice and ritual. Though in the end, I doubt that will change your views.

The danger of contacting that which ought not be contacted, I find intriguing. I wonder how you know your personal spiritual experiences are not the devil masquerading as light.

I usually go “by their works you will know them” when I judge a person or spiritual path.

I am a pagan, and I agree there is a lot of nonsense out there. I spent the first 20 yrs of my life as a Catholic, and there is a lot of nonsense there as well. Actually, much of the same kind of nonsense!

Also, there is a great deal of spiritual richness and opportunity in both ways. I have had wonderful life changing spiritual experiences in both.

Religions are made by people, and thus we will find the best and worst of people in them. I think we all need to practice reason and discernment in our religious paths. And if we know we have a link to the true light, we need not fear that the devil is hiding behind every street lamp waiting to snatch us away. For nothing, not even a religion of a different name, can seperate us from the love of God.

cheddar
 
Cheddar: No I don’t think the Greco-Roman gods were demons anymore than I would have burned the Mayan codices. I am by training an anthropologist. However, I am also staunchly Roman Catholic. God is the supreme being and there are no others but Him. There is good in this world and there is evil. I don’t run around looking for demons behind every lightpost but I do think the demonic exists.

For the young and impressionable it might be a lot of fun to cast runes, draw sacred circles, etc. But most of the time these folks have absolutely no idea of what they are doing (no historical context) or what they just might call up. I had two acquaintances when I was in grad school who were practicing wiccans of a Celtic and Norse tradition. Both played with “energies” (for lack of a better term) and both ended up “frying” their brains. It got to the point where I had to completely avoid them because you could feel something was not right. There was always this brooding “aura” (?) around them. These two were a perfect example of playing around with something you ought not.

On the other hand, the idea of calling upon Athena or Zeus today is to me just plain silly. But that’s just me. The original poster on this thread was talking about shamanism. I wonder if that person has any idea of what a real shaman does. I’ve seen numerous documentaries on this subject during my schooling and I have read extensively about this. I have to wonder just how eager they would be to become a shaman if they saw some of the stuff the Yanamamo do (including ritual cannibalism) or some of the tribespeople in the New Guinea jungles. That’s real shamanism. Running around out in the woods and calling upon Pan is not.
 
40.png
Strength:
the line about being “guided through the woods” sounds especially cheesy, and trite.
Click to expand...
I suppose it would be different if she was Christian, prayed to God/Jesus to help her find her way through and her prayers were answered? Granted, I take everything I hear with a grain of salt (or dump truck of salt, depending on the situation), but some how I doubt that it would be considered “cheesy” if that were the case…
 
40.png
Fieryjades:
He’s a Wiccan, believes in this Goddess figure, and is very anti-Christian due to incorrect beliefs about the Inquisition among other things.
Click to expand...
Granted, I don’t know your friend, but often when someone I’ve talked to who is new to Wicca and come from a Christian background and/or have had a bad experience with Christianity, they tend to harbor anti-Christian feelings. This does not represent Wicca as a whole. I was raised Roman Catholic most of my life and although I do not agree with it and no longer practice, I am not anti-Christian.

Most Wiccans also worship God and Goddess, not just Goddess (with the exception of Dianic Wicca which focuses primarily on the feminine aspect of the Divine).

As for the Inquisition - is he angry just about the actions of Christians then (which obviously not all religions have a sparkly clean past and should not reflect on the religion as a whole). Or does he think that Wiccans were persecuted during the Inquisition? Which in that case, perhaps you should inform him that Wicca was not even a religion at the time (sorta like some “Wiccans” complaining about the Wiccans or even witches persecuted during the Salem Witch Trials. Once again they should understand, Wicca was not around then and the closest thing to a “witch” was the black slave woman - give me a break.) :rolleyes:

As for the original post, as the poster stated, her friend is involved with Shamanistic practices. IF she’s actually serious about it and knows what she is doing, she should be fine. If she has found her own path to the Divine, then good for her. Just because something is not Christian does not mean it is of the “devil”. Someone mentioned the “devil” may appear as an “angel of light”. Besides, that could just as easily be turned around to say that any saints, Mary, Jesus, God prayed to, or any miracles performed/occurring through or by Christian practices are just the devil in disguise. Not saying they are, but such a broad statement like that can easily be applied to any religion - including Christianity.
 
40.png
Fieryjades:
Hey,

I believe that there some articles about paganism in This Rock. Does anybody know what pagans believe moral-wise?

God Bless!
Click to expand...
You should probably be more specific. “Pagan” is a very broad term. According to dictionary.com: pa·gan cache.lexico.com/dictionary/graphics/AHD4/JPG/pron.jpg ( P ) Pronunciation Key (phttp://cache.lexico.com/dictionary/graphics/AHD4/GIF/amacr.gifhttp://cache.lexico.com/dictionary/graphics/AHD4/GIF/prime.gifghttp://cache.lexico.com/dictionary/graphics/AHD4/GIF/schwa.gifn)
n.

  1. *]One who is not a Christian, Muslim, or Jew, especially a worshiper of a polytheistic religion.
    *]One who has no religion.
    *]A non-Christian.
    *]A hedonist.
    *]A Neo-Pagan

    And if you are referring to Neo-Pagan, that is still very broad.
 
40.png
brotherhrolf:
Wiccans? Late 19th - early 20th century - Gardner. What does that leave you - a totally made up “religion” which has no basis in history.
Click to expand...
Christianity was also “made up” and new at one point too.
These folk think they know what it was like. I often wonder how many of them have ever had a history or anthropology lesson. It might be eye opening for them.
Click to expand...
I don’t pretend to follow an ancient religion. If someone came up to me and told me they were descended from a direct line of Druids, I would probably laugh in their face. Or if decided not to be rude, I at the least certainly wouldn’t take them seriously.

Do I think I am following an “ancient” religion? No. Do I care? No. I somehow doubt God cares how old my religion was. As I said before, all religions were new at some point. I have found my path to the Divine, and I am quite happy there. I feel I live a good life, not perfect, but I try to live the best I can. Is God going to send me to “hell” if I happened to be in the “wrong” :rolleyes: religion, but still lived a good life? “Well you lived a great life, but oops, didn’t choose Christianity, oh well, too bad.” Again, give me a break. Granted I can’t speak for the Divine, but if it truly was an all-loving being that created us and we were meant to worship him/her in one specific way, we would have been created like that. Otherwise it’d be a pretty sadistic god to see which ones pick the “right” image of the Divine and which ones go to hell. And on that note, if there is a “one, true God”, what’s to say that Christians got it right? Only Christians would say that, and that doesn’t make it so.
 
40.png
cheddarsox:
Actually brother, many pagans do follow the Greek/Roman pantheon, as well as other pahtheons that have well documented histories of practice and ritual. Though in the end, I doubt that will change your views.

The danger of contacting that which ought not be contacted, I find intriguing. I wonder how you know your personal spiritual experiences are not the devil masquerading as light.

I usually go “by their works you will know them” when I judge a person or spiritual path.

I am a pagan, and I agree there is a lot of nonsense out there. I spent the first 20 yrs of my life as a Catholic, and there is a lot of nonsense there as well. Actually, much of the same kind of nonsense!

Also, there is a great deal of spiritual richness and opportunity in both ways. I have had wonderful life changing spiritual experiences in both.

Religions are made by people, and thus we will find the best and worst of people in them. I think we all need to practice reason and discernment in our religious paths. And if we know we have a link to the true light, we need not fear that the devil is hiding behind every street lamp waiting to snatch us away. For nothing, not even a religion of a different name, can seperate us from the love of God.

cheddar
Click to expand...
Well written!
 
Anyone interested to find out about spiritual warfare from someone who used to be involved in these new age things go to my sig and read up on it.
 
40.png
Lisa4Catholics:
Anyone interested to find out about spiritual warfare from someone who used to be involved in these new age things go to my sig and read up on it.
Click to expand...
You don’t have a signature.
 
40.png
brotherhrolf:
For the young and impressionable it might be a lot of fun to cast runes, draw sacred circles, etc. But most of the time these folks have absolutely no idea of what they are doing (no historical context) or what they just might call up.
Click to expand...
I do agree with you on this point. I have read many things on Wiccan/Pagan message boards about people who just started reading about Wicca a week ago and suddenly are conjuring this and that, playing with energy, and casting spells on people (noting that although some Wiccans are Witches and practice magic, not all are/do). These people either make me laugh, roll my eyes, or just feel bad for how ridiculous they are being. If they are just making it up, whatever, it’s just dumb then. If they are actually trying these things, it is also dumb, on a higher level, because they are messing with things they know little to nothing about - not necessarily evil, but still, I’m not going to perform surgery on someone a week after reading a human biology book.

I have been studying Wicca and Witchcraft for about a year now. Most of my practice has been restricted to praying. I have learned a lot, but I want to make sure I really understand what I am doing and the meaning behind it before I do it. Not just running around “casting spells” :rolleyes: after reading one book.

But then, you find people in all religions that don’t know the meanings behind their own beliefs or purposes behind their masses/rituals/ceremonies/etc. So it doesn’t just revolve around Wicca or “neo-pagan” religions. Just as there are serious and non-serious practitioners in Christianity, Judaism, Islam, Buddhism, etc. there are serious and non-serious practicioners in Wicca and other “neo-pagan” religions.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top