Neoreactionary / alt-right

[Freddy]

Freddy:

Here’s a heads up for y’all. We are all racist. Everyone get that?

Probably not to the extent that real prejudice would just show up.

Agreed. I think that those who do exhibit prejudice might think ‘This is how I feel so it must be right. There must be a reason for this’. And then go looking for a means to justify it.

 

[Lea101]

We’re on the same page. But we didn’t rationalise it and carry on our merry way. It affected our behaviour. We effectively gave in to our instincts and there was an unspoken agreement that we should head out of the area. We treated everyone in the area as being a threat in some way for no other reason than they were ‘different’.

Maybe that sixth sense of some danger was also present. Because we have been in very many situations where we’ve been the only white couple for miles and it hasn’t bothered us whatsoever.

People are exaggerating this whole ‘inbuilt racism’ thing. It can be explained by one’s cognitions.

I was always a racial minority and as a result, I never felt ‘scared’ when I’m in a place say with, all Chinese. Because ‘Chinese are dangerous’ was never in my head. I may be aware that I’m of the only race, since that’s salient information, but it doesn’t translate to racism because I’m not distrustful. In fact, if I’m ever uncomfortable, it would be because I’m scared of being judged because of past experience (e.g. They may be looking down on me).

Your second paragraph hints at this since you said you’ve been in other situations where you didn’t feel this way. If those people were in suits, spoke English, and all of you were in a high end place and nobody is mocking you…you would have felt better. So clearly there are factors here (foreign place? Black vs another race and its stereotypes you internalised?).

You also gave another example of the black couple in the low rent area. Key phrase is low rent. Suggests that one is afraid because they feel like there’s a possibility of violent crime. Some people may associate black with low rent/violent crime, which leads to their anxiety. Some of them don’t even realise this until they’re forced to think about it. No need to beat them up, but it’s worth asking them to go deeper and ask themselves why.

Many people tend to hide behind the “built in” explanation because it’s easier to say that than to talk about how our emotions/reactions are often the result of deep seated assumptions, conditioning and experiences. Some do this because I guess the latter may make them feel guilty, some genuinely don’t know, some just want a reason to justify their actual, immoral racism.

 

[pulchraesamicamea]

This is more aligned with alt-right movements in Korea, but people who are alt-right in Korea have been associated with using religion to gain fame and attention. One of them is this pastor who is a Prebysterian priest who said “God should be afraid of me, because I’m better than Him” which shocked the Protestant councils. He believes the government is corrupt, which is not. He believes that God is making him a martyr for his church, and he should commit suicide to prove that he’s the best.

They ended up spreading the coronavirus across the country, which led to thousands of infected people.

I don’t know how alt-right movements in other countries behave like, but the ones in my country are highly criticized and largely nationalistic.

 

[Rubee]

Is the neoreactionary / alt-right worldview compatible with the Church teaching? I find its tenets despicable, but many of them claim to be Catholics.

Their cult of machismo doesn’t look much like Jesus-like meekness, and their praise of ethnic identity isn’t compatible with the universal nature of Catholicism. They also appeal to evolutionary psychology, how can one reconcile that with immortal soul?

Yes, there are even a catholic variety among them and a protestant one and orthodox. Many are neopagans, precisely because they are repulsed by the inherent ethnic/national/racial inclusivity of Christianity. Aint no black people coming into Valhalla, so they go with that.

As to their compatibility: You just have to read the New Testament. First the Gospels to follow Jesus around and absorb his general attitudes; then the rest of the NT to do the same with the apostles. You should know soon enough how alien or “at home” these types would be in their company.

I’ll say this: Anyone preaching “ethnic exclusivity” or “human biodiversity” or whatever fancy new terms they come up with to package their racism (as scientific or merely “cultural” stuff) is not getting their ideas from Jesus, his disciples, or even Catholic understanding of the rational human soul. They are pagans trying to be Christian. Many can’t stand the dissonance, so they go full pagan, preaching valhalla and denouncing paradise.

 

[Sarcelle]

so they go full pagan, preaching valhalla and denouncing paradise.

The Nazis were really into the old Germanic myths.

 

[Rubee]

The Nazis were really into the old Germanic myths.

It’s a natural road to take when you are committed to human division and are against human unity.

Paganism in all its old forms, i.e. pre “main religions” (Christianity, Islam, Hinduism, Buddhism etc), consisted in isolated human cultural groups that believed they were “the main people” and had myths and systems of thought that reflected that experience in the world, down to creation myths explaining where said group came from. All over the world, it was, especially after agriculture. I’m guessing it was a survival mechanism in the wilds of older times.

So it’s not a big surprise. It’s only far more modern, formal/systematized religion, like the four I named, that’s tended to go against the tribe, in that sense, seeking a super tribe/community based on humanity and belief rather than birth and ethnicity.

To me, the tribalism of typical human paganism is a manifestation of our narcissism/selfishness post-fall (“Me and my kin alone,” an attitude Jesus repeatedly defied, critiqued, or dismissed). I’m glad so-called “Catholics” like Nick Fuentes who tried to pretend this was compatible with catholicism have died a natural Youtube death. Preaching paganism under the guise of Catholicism is a very ugly thing to do.

 

[BlueKumul]

“Cultural Marxism” is a term invented by the terrorist Anders Breivik. Why would a Catholic use such term?

Neoreactionaries are opposed to democracy and egalitarianism, many of them tend to see Putin as an example of a good leader. They might support capitalism or more centralised form of economics.

 

[Freddy]

Sarcelle:

The Nazis were really into the old Germanic myths.

It’s a natural road to take when you are committed to human division and are against human unity.

Paganism in all its old forms, i.e. pre “main religions” (Christianity, Islam, Hinduism, Buddhism etc), consisted in isolated human cultural groups that believed they were “the main people” and had myths and systems of thought that reflected that experience in the world, down to creation myths explaining where said group came from.

You must realise that that all the ‘major’ religions were once ‘isolated human cultural groups that believed they were “the main people” and had myths and systems of thought that reflected that experience in the world, down to creation myths explaining where said group came from.’

Surely you know that. Surely you know that all those religions didn’t appear fully formed with millions of adherents?

 

[Rubee]

You must realise that that all the ‘major’ religions were once ‘isolated human cultural groups that believed they were “the main people” and had myths and systems of thought that reflected that experience in the world, down to creation myths explaining where said group came from.’

Surely you know that. Surely you know that all those religions didn’t appear fully formed with millions of adherents?

You do realize I stated that the membership of these more modern religions is typically based on belief and humanity and not birth and ethnicity? Surely you know that? Surely you realize the actual point I’m making is not that one form of culture is better but that one is more attractive to someone desiring exclusionary membership on the basis of birth and ethnicity? Surely you know that how these modern religions began, or how you think they began is utterly irrelevant to the point? Surely you’re not just knee-jerk responding without giving two cents what the actual point is? Surely?

 

[Freddy]

Freddy:

You must realise that that all the ‘major’ religions were once ‘isolated human cultural groups that believed they were “the main people” and had myths and systems of thought that reflected that experience in the world, down to creation myths explaining where said group came from.’

Surely you know that. Surely you know that all those religions didn’t appear fully formed with millions of adherents?

You do realize I stated that the membership of these more modern religions is typically based on belief and humanity and not birth and ethnicity?

Now I know you’re kidding…

 

[WingedHussar]

“Cultural Marxism” is a term invented by the terrorist Anders Breivik. Why would a Catholic use such term?

Because it is accurate.

Neoreactionaries are opposed to democracy and egalitarianism, many of them tend to see Putin as an example of a good leader. They might support capitalism or more centralised form of economics.

Putin seems to be Russian nationalist so good for him.

 

[RhodesianSon]

Neoreactionaries are opposed to democracy

Can you point out where democracy is spoken of in the Bible or in any church documents as being the only political system that can be supported by Catholics?

 

[Freddy]

Freddy:

Now I know you’re kidding…

Ok, don’t bother tagging me with nonsense. If you had a point you’d make it. You’re just pointlessly huffin n puffing. Got better things to do, dog.

How about we pick people at random, find out where they live and see if we can’t work out what religion they follow. What do you reckon would be our strike rate?

 

[Rubee]

How about we pick people at random, find out where they live and see if we can’t work out what religion they follow. What do you reckon would be our strike rate?

The fact that most people follow the religion they were raised in isn’t some big insight, friend. It’s just you missing the point, again. Here’s a hint: I wouldn’t become German or a member of my own African ethnicity (if I wasn’t born into it) simply by agreeing with their beliefs. The notion just doesn’t work in the structure of elder paganism in the same way, tied as it were to kinsmanship. Modern religions are structured quite in a way to transcend or dismiss this sense of “unity of blood/clan” which is why racists prefer paganism for their spiritual needs: There’s no “sin” in excluding individuals from “the community/people” based just on their ethnicity, from an old pagan worldview.

This is not a complicated idea, or even one that’s difficult to see. It’s pretty obvious to me, given how close my people are to old paganism, being young in the faith and all.

 

[Freddy]

Freddy:

How about we pick people at random, find out where they live and see if we can’t work out what religion they follow. What do you reckon would be our strike rate?

More irrelevance. The fact that most people follow the religion they were raised in isn’t some big insight, friend. It’s just you missing the point, again. Here’s a hint: I wouldn’t become German or a member of my own African ethnicity (if I wasn’t born into it) simply by agreeing with their beliefs. The notion just doesn’t work in the structure of elder paganism in the same way, tied as it were to kinsmanship. Modern religions are structured quite in a way to transcend or dismiss this sense of “unity of blood/clan” which is why racists prefer paganism for their spiritual needs: There’s no “sin” in excluding individuals from “the community/people” based just on their ethnicity, from an old pagan worldview.

This is not a complicated idea, or even one that’s difficult to see. It’s pretty obvious to me, given how close my people are to old paganism, being young in the faith and all.

I can only go back to your quote that the main religions are not based on birth or ethnicity. If that were the case then we’d see bible belt Muslims and Protestants in Italy and the Jewish faith strong in Africa. That is obviously not the case.

 

[Rubee]

I can only go back to your quote that the main religions are not based on birth or ethnicity. If that were the case then we’d see bible belt Muslims and Protestants in Italy and the Jewish faith strong in Africa. That is obviously not the case.

This is how I see this: "I can only deliberately exclude the context to make yet another pointless case against a phantom debate I just made up."

 

[Freddy]

Freddy:

I can only go back to your quote that the main religions are not based on birth or ethnicity. If that were the case then we’d see bible belt Muslims and Protestants in Italy and the Jewish faith strong in Africa. That is obviously not the case.

Lol, "I can only deliberately exclude the context to make yet another pointless case against a phantom debate I just made up." Look, feel entirely free to waste your time. Just don’t tag me when you do.

You are free to clarify your position at any time. But thanks for the (name removed by moderator)ut.

 

[Freddy]

Freddy:

You are free to clarify your position at any time. But thanks for the (name removed by moderator)ut.

Please don’t tag me again unless you have a point relevant to this thread. Your difficulties in reasoning are not my burden to bare.

No problem. I’ll leave the question unanswered. Thanks again.

 

[Freddy]

Freddy:

No problem. I’ll leave the question unanswered. Thanks again.

No need, since you asked no question. You made up a point and argued against yourself. I’m sure you can imagine an answer to your imagined questions and debate just as easily. Just leave me out of it.

No problem. Maybe someone else can answer whether there actually is a connection between birth and ethnicity and one’s chosen religion.

 

[Rubee]

No one made any point about there being “no connection” between birth and chosen religion but about membership being made exclusively through birth/ethnicity.