Never heard this one before :shrug:

  • Thread starter Thread starter Catholicdude92
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
C

Catholicdude92

Guest
I was talking to some of my baptist friends and we were talking about the idea of original sin. They admitted that the idea made sense and that we are born damaged by original sin. I followed the logic that Mary must have been immaculately conceived if she was to be the mother of Christ. They then told me that this in fact was not necessary as we inharate our sin though our “father’s seed” or “Seed of man” or something. Because Jesus’s father was God, he didn’t get the sin of man. I know they are the King James Bible types. couldn’t remember the bible verse, so i asked them if they could find it for me later.

In the meanwhile…has anyone ever heard this before? :confused: What verse is this? do you know of any biblical proof against it? Thanks.
 
Catholicdude92 said:
I was talking to some of my baptist friends and we were talking about the idea of original sin. They admitted that the idea made sense and that we are born damaged by original sin. I followed the logic that Mary must have been immaculately conceived if she was to be the mother of Christ. They then told me that this in fact was not necessary as we inharate our sin though our “father’s seed” or “Seed of man” or something. Because Jesus’s father was God, he didn’t get the sin of man. I know they are the King James Bible types. couldn’t remember the bible verse, so i asked them if they could find it for me later.

In the meanwhile…has anyone ever heard this before? :confused: What verse is this? do you know of any biblical proof against it? Thanks.
Click to expand...
On the one hand …no. such is not the case…it is not passed via the man’s seed…

As to Mary…she did not NEED to be immaculately conceived…but it was FITTING that God do so…just think…she was the Ark of the New Covenant…for Jesus was within her womb for 9 months or so…it was very fitting for this her to be preserved from OS
 
right, I never said she had to be…If God can become a man he can do anything anyway he wishes, but it seems fitting he would want to keep her free from sin.

The man’s seed idea is really strange to me. I guess I’ll have to wait until they get back with the verse. Maybe it’s something to do with man as in mankind but because it’s KJV they take it as literally only the “man” meaning males?
 
Original Sin:

Romans 3:21-24
But now the righteousness of God apart from the law is revealed, being witnessed by the Law and the Prophets, 22 even the righteousness of God, through faith in Jesus Christ, to all and on all who believe. For there is no difference; 23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24 being justified freely by His grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus,

Romans 5:12
Therefore, just as through one man sin entered the world, and death through sin, and thus death spread to all men, because all sinned—13 (For until the law sin was in the world, but sin is not imputed when there is no law. 14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over those who had not sinned according to the likeness of the transgression of Adam, who is a type of Him who was to come. 15 But the free gift is not like the offense. For if by the one man’s offense many died, much more the grace of God and the gift by the grace of the one Man, Jesus Christ, abounded to many.

Original sin affects all mankind. The Bible uses the word “men” to mean “mankind” in these verses. Suffering and death and alienation from God as a result of Original Sin affects both men and women. Eve actually sinned first. She was tricked by Satan’s cunning. Adam knew better, but he ate the fruit to please Eve so his sin was more grievous than Eve’s.

Romans 5:10-11
For if when we were enemies we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, much more, having been reconciled, we shall be saved by His life. 11 And not only that, but we also rejoice in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received the reconciliation.

Original sin made us spiritual enemies of God. We lost fellowship with Him because of Adam’s sin. Baptism restores/regenerates this spiritual fellowship with God:

Titus 3:5
not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to His mercy He saved us, through the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit,
 
I was presented with this argument once - long ago. The claimant didn’t provide a Scriptural context, but it is a weak argument at best.

Common sense (supported by natural law) tells us that if you mix dirty water with clean water, you end up with dirty water. You can not acquire perfection from an imperfect source. Christ was the result of the Holy Spirit uniting with Mary. If either was not immaculate, then you can not expect an immaculate result.

One can not overlook the typology of Ark of the Covenant with Mary (Ark of the New Covenant). See 2 Samuel Chapter 6 and compare it with Mary in Luke 1. Also refer to Revelation 11-12 (read it as if the chapter divisions are not there).

Just as sin entered the world through the disobedience of a man and a woman by taking from a tree, so God delivered salvation by the obedience of a man and a woman by giving on a tree.

God Bless
CSJ
 
Bookcat said:
On the one hand …no. such is not the case…it is not passed via the man’s seed…

As to Mary…she did not NEED to be immaculately conceived…but it was FITTING that God do so…just think…she was the Ark of the New Covenant…for Jesus was within her womb for 9 months or so…it was very fitting for this her to be preserved from OS
Click to expand...
God is a consuming fire. She had to be immaculately conceived (Holy, without sin) or she would have been destroyed when her egg was fertilized by the Seed/sperm. Half of Jesus’ DNA is from Mary. She had to be pure in order for the Word to become Incarnate.

Hebrews 12:28-29
Therefore, since we are receiving a kingdom which cannot be shaken, let us have grace, by which we may serve God acceptably with reverence and godly fear. 29 For our God is a consuming fire.
 
Hope3 said:
Half of Jesus’ DNA is from Mary. She had to be pure in order for the Word to become Incarnate.
Click to expand...
No, all of His DNA came from Mary. The Holy Spirit is not made of flesh, and therefore has no genetic material to pass on.
 
SF3CHURCH said:
No, all of His DNA came from Mary. The Holy Spirit is not made of flesh, and therefore has no genetic material to pass on.
Click to expand...
If Jesus received all His chromosomes from his mother, he would have to have been female, as she would not have had a Y chromosome to give Him.
 
Oh, right. I guess I shouldn’t try to make assumptions about biology. I’m an historian!😊
 
And since “nothing is impossible for God” we can hypothesize that God could have created a Y chromosome from Mary’s DNA, or that He could have provided “divine” DNA by the Holy Spirit. However He accomplished it, it remains a miracle, one we should not be too quick to “explain.” 😃
 
Catholicdude92 said:
I was talking to some of my baptist friends and we were talking about the idea of original sin. They admitted that the idea made sense and that we are born damaged by original sin. I followed the logic that Mary must have been immaculately conceived if she was to be the mother of Christ. They then told me that this in fact was not necessary as we inharate our sin though our “father’s seed” or “Seed of man” or something. Because Jesus’s father was God, he didn’t get the sin of man. I know they are the King James Bible types. couldn’t remember the bible verse, so i asked them if they could find it for me later.

In the meanwhile…has anyone ever heard this before? :confused: What verse is this? do you know of any biblical proof against it? Thanks.
Click to expand...
I think your friends are forgetting Genesis 3:15 - I will put enmity between you and the woman, and between your offspring and hers; He will strike at your head, while you strike at his heel."

This term, “your offspring and hers” is better translated as what? Yep, you guessed it. “Your Seed and Hers”. So yes, normally, the seed is descended through the man, but in this prophecy, the Messiah is to be the Seed of the Woman.
 
**I was presented with this argument once - long ago. The claimant didn’t provide a Scriptural context, but it is a weak argument at best.

Common sense (supported by natural law) tells us that if you mix dirty water with clean water, you end up with dirty water. You can not acquire perfection from an imperfect source. Christ was the result of the Holy Spirit uniting with Mary. If either was not immaculate, then you can not expect an immaculate result.

One can not overlook the typology of Ark of the Covenant with Mary (Ark of the New Covenant). See 2 Samuel Chapter 6 and compare it with Mary in Luke 1. Also refer to Revelation 11-12 (read it as if the chapter divisions are not there).

Just as sin entered the world through the disobedience of a man and a woman by taking from a tree, so God delivered salvation by the obedience of a man and a woman by giving on a tree.

God Bless**

Exactly! That is what I told my Adult Confirmation students back in December. God can do whatever he wishes. Not only that but sin cannot coexist with God. Why would God let a sinner conceive perfection? It is almost like saying God will allow someone with a stained soul to enter Heaven? God is PERFECT,hence so must be the ark (Mary) which would conceive His BEGOTTEN Son.
 
Mary is the Ark of the New Covenant. If you read how pure the Ark of the Old Covenant was constructed, you’d understand that Mary was even more pure.
 
Satan (who was portrayed as a serpent) deceived Eve by his cunning. However, one of Eve’s descendants/Seed (Christ) will eventually defeat Satan by His power.

Genesis 3:15
And I will put enmity
Between you and the woman,
And between your seed and her Seed;
He shall bruise your head,
And you shall bruise His heel.”
**
Acts 3:25**
You are sons of the prophets, and of the covenant which God made with our fathers, saying to Abraham, ‘And in your seed all the families of the earth shall be blessed.’

Galatians 3:16
Now to Abraham and his Seed were the promises made. He does not say, “And to seeds,” as of many, but as of one, “And to your Seed, who is Christ.

John 7:42
Has not the Scripture said that the Christ comes from the seed of David and from the town of Bethlehem, where David was?”

Galatians 3:19
What purpose then does the law serve? It was added because of transgressions, till the Seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was appointed through angels by the hand of a mediator.

The ultimate Seed is Christ. If we obey Him, then we will inherit eternal life. Hebrews 5:9
**
Galatians 3:29**
And if you are Christ’s, then you are Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise.
 
St Augustine believed that original sin was transmitted via the father’s seed. That is probably where your friend got that from.
 
But as man the parent is, such is man the offspring. In the first man, therefore, there existed the whole human nature, which was to be transmitted by the woman to posterity, when that conjugal union received the divine sentence of its own condemnation; and what man was made, not when created, but when he sinned and was punished, this he propagated, so far as the origin of sin and death are concerned. - St Augustine (City of God, Book XIII, Chapter III)
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top