"never known to fail" prayers

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I guess I’m in kind of a snarky mood today…I don’t know…

But I just saw another thread talking about a prayer to the Blessed Virgin that has “never found to fail”…and my “QA” antenna went up…

Where are the studies and stats that make such claims valid???

Of course - to me the very idea that any prayer, sincerely offered, “fails” is simply preposterous. Just because a person doesn’t get the answer they were looking for does not equal failure.
So what is the need for making such a claim?
Isn’t making such a claim necessarily admitting that some prayers fail (at least sometimes)?

Maybe it’s just me…But I find such things to be unhelpful.

Like I said…guess I’m in a snarky kind of mood today…

Peace
James
 
Amen! The requirement for three daly repetitions, plus the requirement that the favor be publicized, places this dangerously close to superstition, in my mind. Neither God, not the Blessed virgin are vending machines.
 
I can’t seem to find it, but I remember seeing a sticky or a rule that threads about a “never known to fail” prayers are banned. I must be snarky as well b/c I have the same reaction when I see one of these threads going up.
 
Our pastors have been adamant about keeping them out of the adoration chapels. I remember Father Busch saying that those things end up preying on people. People used to leave them and when it came to his attention, he said any of them found in the chapel will be discarded.
 
"never known to fail" prayers

I agree in that there’s no such thing.

Besides it’s a sign of the truly faithful that they continue to pray even when their personal prayers go unanswered. Why? Because they know with absolute certainty God is still listening.
 
Matt 6:7
In praying, do not babble like the pagans, who think that they will be heard because of their many words.
 
All prayers are never known to fail because God does not fail.

If youre praying for a sportscar and a divorce, probably not going to happen.

God answers all prayers and He knows whats best for us 🙂

Therefore I dont see am issue with that phrase, as its true. Perhaps for them to “work” it requires a bit more faith and less scrutiny, the kind of faith children have.
 
CrimsonThorn said:
Therefore I dont see am issue with that phrase, as its true. Perhaps for them to “work” it requires a bit more faith and less scrutiny, the kind of faith children have.
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The problem is, it’s like playing Let’s Make a Deal, with God. It’s basically bartering God X number of prayers for Y result. That circumvents both justice and mercy.

Also it violates pride, in that we get the false notion that we can do something to guarantee a result in the future. Scripture speaks against that as well.

[BIBLEDRB]james 4:14-16[/BIBLEDRB]
 
AlanFromWichita said:
The problem is, it’s like playing Let’s Make a Deal, with God. It’s basically bartering God X number of prayers for Y result. That circumvents both justice and mercy.
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I dont see it that way.

God always answers…Yes, No, Be Patient.

God answers all prayers and they NEVER fail, sometimes they are just not ansewered in the way we were expecting.
 
CrimsonThorn said:
I dont see it that way.

God always answers…Yes, No, Be Patient.

God answers all prayers and they NEVER fail, sometimes they are just not ansewered in the way we were expecting.
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The way you are using the term, I agree with you. And in fact, when I get “be patient,” eventually what I do get is an upgrade to what I’d hoped for. Yay!

I’m talking about certain pamphlets that people leave in churches, and in our church in the adoration chapel. It would say that if you said x prayers, a certain number of times a day, and there could be other conditions such as going to daily Mass or whatever, then you will receive some particular gift from God, and these prayers are never known to fail. In other words, if you say these prayers, you will get the gift because everybody who ever said these prayers got that gift in the past. Then people say the prayer, and their loved one doesn’t get better, and they feel cheated by God. And they feel terrible guilt because they think they messed up the prayers and thus failed to bring healing to their spouse, for example. So basically we’re cornering God and claiming that if you follow the formula for prayer, God has no options except “yes,” thus you are conforming God to your own will. This is why our pastors are so adamant against them. They mess up people’s faith and their emotions.

Alan
 
Here’s an example of what we’re talking about:

Oh, most beautiful flower of Mount Carmel, fruitful vine, splendor of Heaven. Blessed Mother of the Son of God; Immaculate Virgin, assist me in my necessity.

Oh, Star of the Sea, help me and show me you are my Mother.
Oh, Holy Mary, Mother of God, Queen of Heaven and Earth, I humbly beseech you from the bottom of my heart to succour me in my necessity. (Mention your request here).

There are none that can withstand your power.
Oh, Mary, conceived without sin, pray for us who have recourse to thee. (3x).

Holy Mary, I place this prayer in your hands. (3x). Amen.

Say this prayer for 3 consecutive days and then you must publish it and it will be granted to you.
So basically it’s a fill-in-the-blank requisition form for favors from God. Notice it needs you to publish it because it’s like a virus. It wants you to share it with other host minds.

Alan

Source: americaneedsfatima.blogspot.com/2012/03/3-day-novena-to-our-lady-of-mount.html
 
AlanFromWichita said:
The way you are using the term, I agree with you. And in fact, when I get “be patient,” eventually what I do get is an upgrade to what I’d hoped for. Yay!

I’m talking about certain pamphlets that people leave in churches, and in our church in the adoration chapel. It would say that if you said x prayers, a certain number of times a day, and there could be other conditions such as going to daily Mass or whatever, then you will receive some particular gift from God, and these prayers are never known to fail. In other words, if you say these prayers, you will get the gift because everybody who ever said these prayers got that gift in the past. Then people say the prayer, and their loved one doesn’t get better, and they feel cheated by God. And they feel terrible guilt because they think they messed up the prayers and thus failed to bring healing to their spouse, for example. So basically we’re cornering God and claiming that if you follow the formula for prayer, God has no options except “yes,” thus you are conforming God to your own will. This is why our pastors are so adamant against them. They mess up people’s faith and their emotions.

Alan
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Ah, so the problem really isnt with the phrase, prayers, or pamphlet…its with the peoples’ perception.

We dont think as God thinks, and if we pray for material things we most likely are not going to get them. Praying for a sick family member…sometimes they get better, other times they do not, God has His reasons. That doesnt mean the prayers didnt work. How do we know the prayers for them did not in fact benefit them in some way, especially spiritually?

We can pray prayers for conversion that are never known to fail, like the Rosary…just because we dont see that happen immediately doesnt mean it wont in 30 years. If the person never converts, how do we know it didnt help someone else who did? How do we know a person hasnt converted in their dying breath?

Jesus rose people from the deas. Jesus is ever alive and with us today as He was then. Anything is possible, it just requires pure sincere faith in its simplest form, without agendas or selfishness attached.
 
AlanFromWichita said:
Here’s an example of what we’re talking about:

Oh, most beautiful flower of Mount Carmel, fruitful vine, splendor of Heaven. Blessed Mother of the Son of God; Immaculate Virgin, assist me in my necessity.

Oh, Star of the Sea, help me and show me you are my Mother.
Oh, Holy Mary, Mother of God, Queen of Heaven and Earth, I humbly beseech you from the bottom of my heart to succour me in my necessity. (Mention your request here).

There are none that can withstand your power.
Oh, Mary, conceived without sin, pray for us who have recourse to thee. (3x).

Holy Mary, I place this prayer in your hands. (3x). Amen.

Say this prayer for 3 consecutive days and then you must publish it and it will be granted to you.
So basically it’s a fill-in-the-blank requisition form for favors from God. Notice it needs you to publish it because it’s like a virus. It wants you to share it with other host minds.

Alan

Source: americaneedsfatima.blogspot.com/2012/03/3-day-novena-to-our-lady-of-mount.html
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I dont see a problem. If it is promised that it will be granted, then it will. Maybe not in the way I intended, but I believe that it will.

Again I also thinl it depends what you ask for. If youre asking to be granted spiritual graces to help you better immitaye the life of Jesus, it will happen.

A comfessor that I frequent advised me to keep a close relationship with the Blessed Virgin and she WILL grant me by the request of her Son, all that is needed to live a holy life.
 
AlanFromWichita said:
Our pastors have been adamant about keeping them out of the adoration chapels. I remember Father Busch saying that those things end up preying on people. People used to leave them and when it came to his attention, he said any of them found in the chapel will be discarded.
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It happens in my church too, with various prayers to St. Rita with the same magic formula “then you must publish it and it will be granted to you”. Superstition 100%. Of course, the priest collects and discards them.
catholic.com/quickquestions/are-prayer-chain-e-mails-considered-superstition
 
CrimsonThorn said:
I dont see a problem. If it is promised that it will be granted, then it will. Maybe not in the way I intended, but I believe that it will.

Again I also thinl it depends what you ask for. If youre asking to be granted spiritual graces to help you better immitaye the life of Jesus, it will happen.

A comfessor that I frequent advised me to keep a close relationship with the Blessed Virgin and she WILL grant me by the request of her Son, all that is needed to live a holy life.
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I’m sorry. We’re totally talking past each other. I’m not talking about your personal view toward the phrase. I’m talking about how these pamphlets affect actual people, in real life, and my pastor explained clearly. People leave the Church over these things.

Sure you can claim Rom 8:28 and I, like you, believe that ALL THINGS work for the good of those who love the Lord. So I personally don’t care if people pray for their poker game as far as I’m concerned, or pray that they get good tarot cards. I’m just saying what their destructive effects are, in real life not in the ideal life, that could very well be the kingdom, for you, you sound very very positive about prayer and I like that.

The reason these are sinister is they look nice and holy to the unwary. And if you think I’m paranoid, or not, that’s fine. I will not concede that these things do not have destructive results because I’ve known some of the victims, and I’ve known of more because of what my pastor told me.

Alan
 
JRKH said:
I just saw another thread talking about a prayer to the Blessed Virgin that has “never found to fail”…and my “QA” antenna went up…

Of course - to me the very idea that any prayer, sincerely offered, “fails” is simply preposterous. Just because a person doesn’t get the answer they were looking for does not equal failure.
Isn’t making such a claim necessarily admitting that some prayers fail (at least sometimes)?
Click to expand...
The argument that one type of prayer is never known to fail does not exclude the possibility that another type (or all types) of prayer are never known to fail. And, as noted above, answers to prayer may surprise the person who is praying-the Lord knows what is best for us.
I appreciate posters creating threads encouraging prayer. Sometimes, I will find a prayer that is new to me on CAF that seems to just match what is in my heart and I pray along with the person who has shared. I have learned litanies, prayers for priests, and special devotions to our Blessed Mother thanks to the posts here on CAF. Thank you fellow posters.🙂
I’m can’t give you a scientific study, but the one time I offered a novena to St. Jude for a conversion to the faith, a deathbed conversion occurred. (Small sample size, I know, but I’m prayerfully grateful for the results.) 👍

The Holy Bible: Douay Rheims Luke; 11:9. Matthew 7:7
And I say to you, Ask, and it shall be given you: seek, and you shall find: knock, and it shall be opened to you…
 
Alan, they are destructive not in and of themsves, but because people do not receieve material, tangible results that they are looking for. Not just my experience, I was just using the priests’ own words too that it WILL be granted as another example.

People also leave the church over church doctrine too, because it isnt what they expected or what theyd like to hear. And that is definitely not sinister.

It all lies with the people and their perception. If they treat the prayers supertitiously, just as skme treat the Rosary with superstition (like a goodluck charm) then it is superstitious necause the PEOPLE have made it so, not thag the prayers or Rosary are.
 
WOW - moving right along here…

Time for a little OP interjection here…😃

For me both issues are in play. Certainly the things that Alan is referring to are very real and have more than a little potential to do a lot of damage to one’s faith.

But more generally - and speaking to CrimsonThorn’s point…Yes - technically the statement IS correct, but it is misleading and frankly redundant. (IMHO)
It’s misleading because “never known to fail” conjures up in the mind great confidence…like there are just tons of people who have said this prayer, and every one of them received what they prayed for - had their specific request granted.
This is why I asked in the OP, where are the studies and statistics to back up such a statement.

Now - As you say prayers are always answered…Well then that makes the statement redundant - so why say it at all?

Peace
James
 
The concept of “never known to fail” does indeed lend itself to placing the prayers from petitions to God into the 'Magic ‘Talisman’ category - yes?🤷

Has anyone participating in this discussion prayed the St. Teresa of Lisseux prayers and not recieved a rose?
 
jeannetherese said:
The argument that one type of prayer is never known to fail does not exclude the possibility that another type (or all types) of prayer are never known to fail. And, as noted above, answers to prayer may surprise the person who is praying-the Lord knows what is best for us.
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Precisely. All prayers are answered = no prayer ever fails. So there is no reason or need to hawk some specific prayer as though it is better than any other prayer that is prayed sincerely, humbly and from the heart.
Such things fairly “reek” of “superstition”, not true faith.
I appreciate posters creating threads encouraging prayer. Sometimes, I will find a prayer that is new to me on CAF that seems to just match what is in my heart and I pray along with the person who has shared. I have learned litanies, prayers for priests, and special devotions to our Blessed Mother thanks to the posts here on CAF. Thank you fellow posters.🙂
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Amen - I have experienced this also and am equally grateful…👍
I just don’t need any prayer to be stamped with some sort of “good housekeeping” seal of approval that it won’t fail. If I trust God then I don’t need such reassurance, and if I need such reassurance, I don’t trust God enough…
I’m can’t give you a scientific study, but the one time I offered a novena to St. Jude for a conversion to the faith, a deathbed conversion occurred. (Small sample size, I know, but I’m prayerfully grateful for the results.) 👍
Click to expand...
Praise God
The Holy Bible: Douay Rheims Luke; 11:9. Matthew 7:7
And I say to you, Ask, and it shall be given you: seek, and you shall find: knock, and it shall be opened to you…
Click to expand...
Amen

Peace
James
 
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