Never seen this topic before: Friend or Foe?

[ecp007]

So, I have moved to a small country in Asia and am a well-to-do Expat. Living here is like going back 200 years, as the locals are very humble and subserviant, and since being a maid or a cook or a driver is actually very good living for them (and very cheap for me) I along with all of my expat friends have several servants … for want of a better word.

The problem I am having is that because the country’s culture is very hierarchical, the servants are used to being low-man on the totem pole so to speak. For me, I treat them all with respect, pay them very well by this country’s standards, give them good food and accomodations (same as what my family and I have) and generally enjoy their company. They have become my good friends and constant companions. My issue is that many (most) of my expat friends see things differently. They try to take advantage of the situation, paying as little as possible, providing just a mattress on the floor, basic food, and no air conditioning (we live on the equator and it is HOT). Even to the point of locking their maids in the house when they are gone so they won’t “escape”.

To me, my expat friends are the sweetest and nicest people, so interesting to talk to because of all their travel experiences, and just so nice and sweet to me and my family. They never mention their house staff to me, so I would never know what goes on in their houses. But since I am close to my staff, and this is a small island, my staff tell me horror stories of the way my friends treat their maids.

On the one hand, I kind a feel like my staff is gossiping to me, telling me these stories. And I probably shouldn’t be listening. But the stories are so aweful, that it makes me wonder what obligation I have to say something to defend these poor women from what I would consider abuse?

What would you do in this situation? What is the Christian thing to do?

 

[iamrefreshed]

I think I would ask my friends for advice on what to pay, how to house and what treatment is appropriate for your household help.

See if ‘fess up’.

 

[kage_ar]

I would avoid words like maid or servant first of all, smacks of disrespect. Are your friends Christians? If they are, one would expect them to treat any staff or employee with respect and dignity.

I would feel a moral obligation to either confirm or dismiss any charges of abuse.

 

[IrishAm]

I would avoid words like maid or servant first of all, smacks of disrespect.

No, it does not. There is nothing wrong with simple words that convey honest labor for which one receives fair wages and human dignity.

 

[Sierrah]

So, I have moved to a small country in Asia and am a well-to-do Expat. Living here is like going back 200 years, as the locals are very humble and subserviant, and since being a maid or a cook or a driver is actually very good living for them (and very cheap for me) I along with all of my expat friends have several servants … for want of a better word.

The problem I am having is that because the country’s culture is very hierarchical, the servants are used to being low-man on the totem pole so to speak. For me, I treat them all with respect, pay them very well by this country’s standards, give them good food and accomodations (same as what my family and I have) and generally enjoy their company. They have become my good friends and constant companions. My issue is that many (most) of my expat friends see things differently. They try to take advantage of the situation, paying as little as possible, providing just a mattress on the floor, basic food, and no air conditioning (we live on the equator and it is HOT). Even to the point of locking their maids in the house when they are gone so they won’t “escape”.

To me, my expat friends are the sweetest and nicest people, so interesting to talk to because of all their travel experiences, and just so nice and sweet to me and my family. They never mention their house staff to me, so I would never know what goes on in their houses. But since I am close to my staff, and this is a small island, my staff tell me horror stories of the way my friends treat their maids.

On the one hand, I kind a feel like my staff is gossiping to me, telling me these stories. And I probably shouldn’t be listening. But the stories are so aweful, that it makes me wonder what obligation I have to say something to defend these poor women from what I would consider abuse?

What would you do in this situation? What is the Christian thing to do?

They aren’t true Christians. They are slave holders by your discription of how they treat their so called employees. Locking them in their rooms is barbaric and I wouldn’t have anything to do with people who treated others that way. No matter how kind they were to me.

 

[Feanaro_s_Wife]

They aren’t true Christians. They are slave holders by your discription of how they treat their so called employees. Locking them in their rooms is barbaric and I wouldn’t have anything to do with people who treated others that way. No matter how kind they were to me.

But first he has to know if it is even true. What if the employees are just playing on his sympathies hoping he will hire them instead so they can be better paid and housed? Without direct knowledge he shouldn’t act on anything. So his duty now is to figure out how to find out if his “friends” really treat other human beings with so little respect and dignity. If they are true friends it shouldn’t be hard to just ask them.

 

[JustAnotherThou]

I don’t believe that “Maid” is disrespectful. Servant, I would have problems using myself.

The best way we can evangelize our religion is in how we live our lives. I don’t see anything wrong with you being open with your “friends” that you enjoy your employees and are friendly to them. I am not saying that you need to have your maid come and have tea with you and your friends. Although, I do believe that you can call her by her name, speak friendly of her, maybe even say something very kind about her to your friends when she is not around. Same with your other staff, I just used maid as an example. If you have a gardener, maybe you can show them your gardens and talk about how wonderful your gardener is. If they are over for lunch, talk about how wonderful your cook is. More than likely your “friends” are just going to think you are a CRAZY foreigner. It might make them think though and re-examine their staffs conditions. You also might be able to slowly engage them in conversations about the staffs living quarters, I would just insure it was always put in a positive manner. Talk to them about the expectations of employers to treat staff in America (or where ever you are originally from). You also might want to look into doing volunteer projects in your new community that would help the less fortunate. I know many women’s social groups in America volunteer at soup kitchens, habitat for humanity, etc. Oh also, not sure if where you are it is custom to show your house when you invite friends over (here in America sometimes it is). Maybe making sure you include the staff rooms would be good also. I would talk to your staff to see if they are comfortable with that first.

I would caution about confronting or accusing them especially if you are in a place where harm could be done to you and your family.

 

[Feanaro_s_Wife]

My issue is that many (most) of my expat friends see things differently.

To me, my expat friends are the sweetest and nicest people, so interesting to talk to because of all their travel experiences, and just so nice and sweet to me and my family.

Maybe I am misunderstanding, but doesn’t this mean that the OP and all of his friends are foreigners to the country?

 

[JustAnotherThou]

Maybe I am misunderstanding, but doesn’t this mean that the OP and all of his friends are foreigners to the country?

I didn’t know what expat means so I am at a total loss there. I guess I just took it that they are just wealthy enough to travel. I guess they could also be foreigners to the country. If they are American (being American myself) I would call them out on their behavior with no problem. I guess I just assumed they were of Asian decent, thus they would see someone originally from a non Asian country as a foreigner.
I guess my only example is when I was in Germany I showered every day. My host family thought I was CRAZY for showering everyday. They would say all the time, “Oh, you crazy Americans”

 

[mschrank]

I have experience with this as I lived in Beijing and (my family) had a maid and a driver not to mention other help whenever we needed it.

I would say treat them with the respect that you do, but I don’t know, perhaps it is too much to become too close of “friends” with them. You might have to learn this the hard way, but Aristotle was right when he wrote that true friendship was difficult if not impossible between people of vastly different social classes. At the end of the day, you are a social patron, not a social equal. I am not talking about where you stand in relation to the eyes of God, but what is the concrete social structure of your relationship.

It is said that familiarity breeds contempt, and fraternization can breed a kind of situation where they expect favors and might begin to abuse your trust. It can also cause (and this was a big problem for us in Beijing) rivalries between staff members, over who is “closest” to you and who gets your favor. We had to deal with so much backstabbing due to this issue. At one point the maid was fighting with the driver over who got to take the kids to the Summer Palace.

You need to be fair and show them what a Christian boss is like, and I’m sure you’re much nicer to them than the other bosses, especially the Asian ones from other Asian countries, and gain their respect as well as their devotion.

Maybe some of the stuff I am telling you is shocking, but you’ll see the truth in what I am saying if you keep up the buddy-buddy relationship. Things will go bad. People who have never lived in an Asian country will probably think I am being an elitist meanie, but as you know, Asian society does not work like it does over here in the states.

 

[Island_Oak]

“Expat” is short for “expatriate” which refers to leaving your home country and living abroad in a foreign country usually for an extended period of time. It’s not uncommon for large and/or multinational corporations, banks, law firms and the like to send employees overseas for “expat” assignments that can last 1, 2 even 5 years at a time.

I wouldn’t assume that what your domestics have told you is completely true or necessarily false. It’s gossip. If you are concerned enough to inquire further, go directly to the source. But you also risk opening a kettle of worms meddling in how other people run their household~not much different than offering unsolicited advice to someone on how they raise their kids, treat their husband, spend their $, etc. Tread lightly until you have some real facts to work with at the very least.

 

[ecp007]

I think I would ask my friends for advice on what to pay, how to house and what treatment is appropriate for your household help.

See if ‘fess up’.

So I’ve tried this, but it is hard to explain, they’ll say their maid sleeps on a matress on the floor, and then talk about how terrible the locals are who keep their maids on the bare floor! The pay from an expat (expatriot…means we’re working for a multi-national corp, stationed in a foreign country for 2-5 years) is always WAY better then what the locals pay, so they feel OK with shorting the maids if they work overtime or do extra chores.

The locking in the house is a confirmed fact, but they say it is to avoid the maid stealing everything they have and walking off. A maids room with a padlock from the outside was actually a selling point for a house we saw…the realtor pointed it out as a way to ensure security…just lock your maid in!

They’ll skirt around an issue, and the way they see it from their perspective you can almost understand it. For instance when I said I wouldn’t have a house unless the maid’s room had air conditioning, they said “You’re wasting your money, they’re used to the heat and they’ll never turn it on.” Well, of course this wasn’t the case, my maid uses the A/C every night, but certainly she keeps it much hotter than I do, and is often cold in the rest of the house, so what they say are half truths, that justifies their bad behavior.

 

[ecp007]

I would avoid words like maid or servant first of all, smacks of disrespect…

So a maid or house servant are worthy professions here. It is something to feel proud about. Because only people who speak english and know how to cook or are smart enough to keep a big house can get this job. Its a good job, better than working in a palm plantation. That is what they call themselves, so I just follow their lead on that.

Are your friends Christians? .

Yes, they are!

If they are, one would expect them to treat any staff or employee with respect and dignity. .

One would think, right! That is my dilema. What a missed opportunity to evangelize! The local people here are muslim, or bhudists, or hindus. So they have no cultural concept of everyone being born equal as children of God. The hindus actually believe that if you are born to a lower class it is punishment for evil you did in a previous life, so you must suffer it, so that when you die you can get reincarnated into a better one!?1?!

I would feel a moral obligation to either confirm or dismiss any charges of abuse.

I think I asked my original question in the wrong way. The abuse is confirmed. For instance, my friend said the lady from the maid agency was beating her maid in her home for getting pregnant. She felt proud of her husband who stepped in to stop the beating after only 4 blows!!!

The real question is should I accept this as the cultural norm here (kind of like not judging the Catholic Priests in the 1500’s who would kill any indian who didn’t convert???) Or refuse to be friends with these people, but then I’m friendless for the next 2 years??

 

[ecp007]

They aren’t true Christians. They are slave holders by your discription of how they treat their so called employees. Locking them in their rooms is barbaric and I wouldn’t have anything to do with people who treated others that way. No matter how kind they were to me.

I think I agree with you, that is how I am feeling.

 

[ecp007]

But first he has to know if it is even true.

I’m a lady poster, mama to Mati (5) and Fernando (10).

And I know the stories are true. I’ve heard the same stories from different sources. Or one friend telling me what she saw at another friends house. It’s a small island and everyone is always talking, everyone knows everything about everyone else.

So, for the locals to treat their staff poorly, well, that is harder for me to judge because it is their country, and their culture. But for a person from a developed nation (not the US I’m happy to say- but there aren’t many Americans here, the Americans are good). Most of my friends are from South America where I guess they have a layered class system. But they *have *lived for a time in the US, they should know better. And the Europeans, from Germany or the Dutch are just unbelievable – of course, they are not Christian, they are atheist.

 

[ecp007]

It can also cause (and this was a big problem for us in Beijing) rivalries between staff members, over who is “closest” to you and who gets your favor. We had to deal with so much backstabbing due to this issue. At one point the maid was fighting with the driver over who got to take the kids to the Summer Palace…

Yeah, this is a problem for me. I am female, but also an engineer, so i am much closer to my (male) driver, than my maid, who I have nothing in common with. She is extraordinarily jealous, which sometimes causes internal strife.

Maybe some of the stuff I am telling you is shocking, but you’ll see the truth in what I am saying if you keep up the buddy-buddy relationship. Things will go bad. People who have never lived in an Asian country will probably think I am being an elitist meanie, but as you know, Asian society does not work like it does over here in the states.

I agree to some extent. But I’ve had bosses who were my friends, and those who weren’t. So I’m the same way. And we just deal with the personal issues as we go. I am not going to miss an opportunity to have a close relationship with someone, because I fear what might happen in the future.

 

[ecp007]

The best way we can evangelize our religion is in how we live our lives.

I agree with you, exactly!

I don’t see anything wrong with you being open with your “friends” that you enjoy your employees and are friendly to them.

Which is exactly what I do.

More than likely your “friends” are just going to think you are a CRAZY foreigner. It might make them think though and re-examine their staffs conditions.

We’re all foreigners here, although from different countries.
I know they see that my staff is very happy, and they never quit. Like in the year I’ve been here, my one friend has been through 4 maids, and 8 drivers. And my other freind 2 maids and 3 drivers. And I still have my original staff. So I know they see that, but I don’t know if they think I have my staff “spoiled”.

You also might be able to slowly engage them in conversations about the staffs living quarters, I would just insure it was always put in a positive manner…Oh also, not sure if where you are it is custom to show your house when you invite friends over (here in America sometimes it is). Maybe making sure you include the staff rooms would be good also.

I think that is the best idea. Just kind bring it up in the conversation every once in a while.

 

[ecp007]

Oh… what I forgot to say… the “abuse” is confirmed, but not illegal here. Clearly, if you murder a maid, or rape them, that is illegal, but the other things I describe are the norm, and acceptable socially and legally!

 

[Norseman82]

Host a bible study for your friends, and read St. Paul’s letter to Philemon.

 

[Feanaro_s_Wife]

I’m a lady poster, mama to Mati (5) and Fernando (10).

oops, sorry… hard to tell from your screen name. I don’t know why I assumed you were male:shrug: