Tis_Bearself
Patron
Yeah, it was pretty normal for girls from Catholic families I knew to be prescribed them for regulating their cycles.
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JLP1
Guest
Yes, my prescription does have a note to that effect, and I still had to jump through hoops to have it covered in the same way as my other anti-seizure medications.
And I didn’t realize that about Little Sisters of the Poor, so thanks for clarifying. It’s just that I hear so much about general opposition to covering birth control that it sounds like really a lot of people (and groups and insurance providers) think it has one purpose and one purpose only, when it doesn’t.
And I didn’t realize that about Little Sisters of the Poor, so thanks for clarifying. It’s just that I hear so much about general opposition to covering birth control that it sounds like really a lot of people (and groups and insurance providers) think it has one purpose and one purpose only, when it doesn’t.
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Sarcelle
Guest
This. I don’t hate children but I don’t go crazy over them either. If I were married I would be open to them but being a mother was never a life long dream of mine.Just because people don’t want to have children, doesn’t mean they hate them.
Besides, do we really want people who hate kids to become parents because society expects them to have children?
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Gingersnaps4
Guest
Agreed! It’s heartbreakingly sad and it shows to what degree our society has devolved, that there are apparently many people out there willing to preemptively sterilize themselves in case they won’t have the opportunity to kill their children if they get pregnant.To the OP, I feel so sad for your five friends. They are of course symptomatic of a larger societal trend towards hating children and treating fertility like a disease instead of a gift to be wisely managed. And of course this points to another, deeper problem in our society; we will stop at nothing to get consequence-free sex. Nothing.
As far as the sin goes, while I’m sure sterilization grieves God, a person killing their child probably grieves Him more. People like this have no business getting pregnant, ever.
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Bruised_Reed
Guest
This. Saying that people who don’t want children are selfish is a bit of a self-own because are they really suggesting that selfish people should have children?Besides, do we really want people who hate kids to become parents because society expects them to have children?
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redbetta
Guest
This thread has made me wonder, why is it socially acceptable and even cool, in some circles, to hate kids when hating any other group of people for something they can’t help (sex, race, etc.) would make you a social pariah? If anything, we should be more empathetic towards kids since we all started out as kids.
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Bruised_Reed
Guest
One other thing. A lot of those choosing to be child-free have their reasons. Many grew up in home experiencing abuse and neglect and dont trust themselves to do the same and would rather die than abuse a child. Some just geard how bad it was to have kids, often as a joke, but there is some truth in jokes. Saying, “I hope you have a kid that is just like you,” doesn’t inspire one to have kids.
And if you think waxing euphoric about the blessing children are will cancel out those messages? They don’t. People know when someone is putting on an act and when they are being real.
And if you think waxing euphoric about the blessing children are will cancel out those messages? They don’t. People know when someone is putting on an act and when they are being real.
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VeryBlessed
Guest
It is possible to be have serious reservations about societal trends towards sterilization, abortion, and childlessness, while still being very gracious and understanding in the plethora of individual cases around me. I am greatly opposed to abortion, but I feel nothing but heartbreak and sympathy for the women who choose it, especially those who felt forced into it by a parent or by circumstances. Nobody is talking about forcing any one person to have children. But it is entirely appropriate to say, “wait a minute, shouldn’t we think this through a little more”, when we see society as a whole rushing headlong into a direction that we think is not God’s best. Hopefully I can urge society to avoid embracing that which is less than best without being a jerk to the individuals around me struggling under the weight of their various crosses.
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PetraG
Guest
I don’t know their ages, but they are saying that they see becoming a parent with their sexual partner as so bad that they’d rather entirely renounce all possibility of ever becoming a parent than to have to “go through” that. The surgery reduces their sexual faculty to the place they’ve already given it in practice.
After all, the baby they’re being “forced to carry” is not a stranger. They are talking about their own child, not to mention the child of their “lover.” Yes, I can imagine that hearing what you’re hearing is shocking. I don’t think they ought to worry about heading towards dystopia. I think they need to see they’ve already arrived: Fertility is the enemy, family is the enemy, the possibility that one’s own reproductive organs might actually engage in reprodution is the enemy. They must have sex and yet they must not have a family. That’s the life they are “protecting.” Renunciation of parenthood for their entire lives is the only commitment they’re willing to make and the sacrifice that seems to them the least costly. Wow.
After all, the baby they’re being “forced to carry” is not a stranger. They are talking about their own child, not to mention the child of their “lover.” Yes, I can imagine that hearing what you’re hearing is shocking. I don’t think they ought to worry about heading towards dystopia. I think they need to see they’ve already arrived: Fertility is the enemy, family is the enemy, the possibility that one’s own reproductive organs might actually engage in reprodution is the enemy. They must have sex and yet they must not have a family. That’s the life they are “protecting.” Renunciation of parenthood for their entire lives is the only commitment they’re willing to make and the sacrifice that seems to them the least costly. Wow.
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PetraG
Guest
No, I wouldn’t say that achieving, for example, a lowered suicide rate by routing people at risk for suicide into poking out their own eyes or cutting off a hand would be considered an “improved situation.” Yes, it is better to be maimed than to lose your life entirely, but no, it is not reasonable to encourage one evil in the hopes of lowering the incidence of another one. Besides, it usually doesn’t work that way. If part of society treats parenthood as an awful fate, that doesn’t make society more welcoming to children. It is more likely to make society hostile towards parents and children.Sterilization is a grave sin too, and would be considered a mortal sin for Catholics. However, I have to imagine that a person receiving sterilization (like other forms of artificial birth control) may be less culptible for this sin if they didn’t know it was a mortal sin. I think God might be able to forgive this sin easier than the sin of abortion.
To me, it’s all about picking the lesser of two evils. While both are grave sins, sterilization is clearly the lesser of two evils when compared to abortion.
So if outlawing abortion lead to more sterilizations, I think that would be an improved situation.
I hope I’m making sense?
God Bless
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Tis_Bearself
Patron
This is exactly how I felt. When it became clear that my husband and I would not be able to conceive without some kind of medical interventions happening that I didn’t like the idea of and didn’t want to do (probably would have required both surgery for me and hormone treatment for husband), I thought, “Oh well, better it happen to us who have not had a lifelong dream of being parents, rather than to people who were very anxious to become parents and would have just been crushed if they couldn’t have babies.”This. I don’t hate children but I don’t go crazy over them either. If I were married I would be open to them but being a mother was never a life long dream of mine.
As a child, I wanted to have a lot of animals as an adult. I never daydreamed about having children. I didn’t hate them or plan a “child free” life or any of that, they just weren’t at the top of my life priority list. Many women including my own mother were like that; my mom always said when babies came along I would naturally love them just like she loved me, even though she had never been in a big hurry to have children and I came as a sort of surprise because she had been married for a while without conceiving.
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mrsdizzyd
Guest
These procedures are very popular amongst 40 year olds. I’m pretty sure I can list off more than 5 acquaintances who have had their tubes tied. I’m not sure why you are so surprised.No less than 5 in just the last 24 hours have made it known they have tubal ligations or vasectomies
As for the reason they are giving…I wouldn’t give that much credence. We live in an outrage culture. I think Alissa Milano just called for a “sex strike”.
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phil19034
Guest
OK, I NEVER said or implied that it is “reasonable to encourage” someone to get a sterilization.it is not reasonable to encourage one evil in the hopes of lowering the incidence of another one
I simply meant that IF the unintended consequence in the OP’s hypothetical was an increased number of VOLUNTARY (not forced) sterilizations, then that situation would be a lesser evil than all the abortions currently happening.
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PetraG
Guest
Thanks for the clarification–yes, exactly. A lesser evil, but still an evil, and a tragedy. You know there are people getting this done who will tearfully realize later that they actually did want to be open to parenthood. It is often not reversible. There are even those who put off parenthood indefinitely only to realize how unwise it was to take their fertility for granted. They don’t realize what they have lost until it is too late. It truly is heartbreaking, and what can you do but weep with them over the loss? We all do things when we are young and don’t understand.OK, I NEVER said or implied that it is “reasonable to encourage” someone to get a sterilization.
I simply meant that IF the unintended consequence in the OP’s hypothetical was an increased number of VOLUNTARY (not forced) sterilizations, then that situation would be a lesser evil than all the abortions currently happening.
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