New Age/Occult side effects?

[edwest2]

That’s because they didn’t work. There’s no such thing as spirits, so people can’t contact them.

Sure, because these things require you to interpret. The human imagination is very clever, and even very uncreative people can twist readings to make them “fit” in ways that seem coincidental.

You can relax: there are no “evil spirits,” or spirits of any kind, for that matter. You haven’t “opened” yourself to any danger – you were taken in by the lucrative New Age marketing movement and convinced to part with some of your hard-earned money for nonsense.

Speaking as a Catholic, there certainly are spirits and real evil. I was listening to a priest exorcist speak on Catholic Radio.

As far as New Age being profitable, I don’t think that’s the point of it. There are some who want people to embrace something other than, say, being Catholic. I was there in the mid-1970s on the Wayne State University campus. There was a bookstore with books about Oriental Mysticism stacked from floor to ceiling. It faded away.

I also had a chat with two women who were selling Crystals. When I asked them how they worked, I got the following: “Well, you know computer chips? Well, they’re made out of crystals and people use them. So these crystals are like that and contain energy.”

Some people buy incense burners because they want a pleasant odor in their living area, but such things are classed as part of “New Age” merchandise even if you bought them at a mall.

God bless,
Ed

 

[kenofken]

So, that’s where those unwashed Hippies ended up.

God bless,
Ed

For better and worse, yes. The ones that start making serious money move to the suburbs where they drive their 18-foot SUV with “save the environment” bumper sticker to shop at Whole Foods!

 

[edwest2]

For better and worse, yes. The ones that start making serious money move to the suburbs where they drive their 18-foot SUV with “save the environment” bumper sticker to shop at Whole Foods!

Huh. Is it at least full? I mean, you know, with other members of the commune?

God bless,
ED

 

[KathleenGee]

What I am reacting to are those who are led by other powers…they think they are doing things right and end up affecting alot of people around them. I visited a New Age store and talked to the woman in there selling crystals…she said people who manipulate and do bad things are doing evil.

So there are those who don’t do evil…I met a wiccan this past summer who spoke the whole evening with me…and I would call her a spiritual person who draws on nature around her. She is very kind…so we have to differentiate…

 

[edwest2]

What I am reacting to are those who are led by other powers…they think they are doing things right and end up affecting alot of people around them. I visited a New Age store and talked to the woman in there selling crystals…she said people who manipulate and do bad things are doing evil.

So there are those who don’t do evil…I met a wiccan this past summer who spoke the whole evening with me…and I would call her a spiritual person who draws on nature around her. She is very kind…so we have to differentiate…

While respecting the beliefs of others, Catholics should examine them as well. Someone “who draws on nature around her” may be a nice person but all need Christ.

God bless,
Ed

 

[Elene]

they think they are doing things right and end up affecting alot of people around them.

That’s the problem though. They “think” they are doing things right, but they don’t “know” they are doing things right. There are ways that human beings can open these “spiritual” doors into other realms, but they are always fishing around in the dark when they do. Perhaps something good will happen, perhaps nothing will happen. Most likely something bad will happen, because if their original intention was really good, these people would have simply prayed to God instead of circumventing Him through alternative methods to get what they want.

I visited a New Age store and talked to the woman in there selling crystals…she said people who manipulate and do bad things are doing evil.

As a Roman Catholic, why were you visiting a new age store?

Of course she didn’t say it was all evil - she’s trying to sell you crystals!

 

[Holly3278]

That’s the problem though. They “think” they are doing things right, but they don’t “know” they are doing things right. There are ways that human beings can open these “spiritual” doors into other realms, but they are always fishing around in the dark when they do. Perhaps something good will happen, perhaps nothing will happen. Most likely something bad will happen, because if their original intention was really good, these people would have simply prayed to God instead of circumventing Him through alternative methods to get what they want.

As a Roman Catholic, why were you visiting a new age store?

Of course she didn’t say it was all evil - she’s trying to sell you crystals!

I think that Kathleen was speaking of her past experience before she came to Christ. I am not totally sure though but I’ll let her speak for herself.

 

[KathleenGee]

I have been Catholic my entire life.

After what I had gone through, what else could? I go to this Catholic bookstore…across the street is the New Age store…so I wanted to hear another take on crystals. So I went in and spoke to the woman about the crystals…and then I asked her opinion on the behavior of some people I unfortunately met and described some behaviors…and her response was that people who do that are doing evil.

She implied crystals are used to do good to people or do some kind of healing…but I walked over to them, and put myself in the original position where I was trying to be sincere and clear things up at the beginning of the fracas…so I walked over to the crystal tray…observed and then felt the same paralyzing power…then I turned to Christ, ignored the other and then continued on. Prior to that I was like a deer before the headlights when it began. The priest who got in volved also said he never experienced a spirit like that.

Most priests are not prepared to consider such things…but they are beginning to in Europe. If I could give any advice…I never want to have such a conflict again…and to avoid anybody doing such.

My friend who left with me shared what was happening with her sister in law…the sister in law said New Agers were infiltrating the Church like that to destroy it from within…to say this woman I dealt with had that intention? I don’t know. Multiple personality? I don’t know. I know that through a providential contact, I was not the only one, that these people were afraid to say anything more, still afflicted…that somebody wants to do an expose but they are afraid it could come back to me. So it is kept quiet…I think of the nuns who had covens in convents…so many left…Thank God.

 

[D0UBTFIRE]

Just to clarify, (sorry I never take the time to update my profile) I’m a pretty orthodox Catholic now…Tridentine mass and everything. I do NOT feel a pull towards the occult. I was ONCE interested in it and dabbled in it, and I just found it strange that it didn’t have an apparent negative effect, or if it did then, it no longer does now. Could my baptism have something to do with that? Just curious.

 

[RhysApGruffydd]

…I was a practising Witch many years ago… I am also still struggling with fully accepting God…

This, IMHO, is the most common ‘side effect’ of actively pursuing a deep understanding of the ‘occult’.

As to the idea that you might somehow be open, original poster, to the evil spirits whose attention you might have attracted: I can only recommend that you put this out of your mind, lest paranoia should grip you and shake you to your foundations. Strengthen such foundations in your new faith, and pay no mind to your old one.

 

[IanCorrigan]

My question is, should I do anything about this? I mean, I’ve heard that these are ways that open you up to evil spirits, but, I stopped trying these things a while ago, and I really never had a “problem” nor am I having any problems now…which also has me a little confused, if the occult and new age stuff is dangerous - then why didn’t it have a negative effect on me? I’m not saying it’s not dangerous, I’m simply asking, if I was involved with it, what possible reason would there be for evil spirits not to be trying to afflict me?
Opinions?

You asked this on the Non-Catholic religions forum, so I’m going to give you a Non-Catholic answer. For clarity, I’m a Pagan, occultist and ‘witch’ who has been working with occult rites, worship of the Old Gods, divination, dealing with lesser spirits and the dead etc for nearly 30 years. I have a 20 year marriage, regular employment, kids, house, etc, and my life is pretty normal, apart from my unusual spiritual pursuits. My Pagan religion provides me peace, joy and empowerment, and I feel no need for any other religious path.

Experimenting with ‘occult’ methods is as safe as the intention you bring to it. Almost all occult methods are a search for the spiritual - another method of encountering the divine, different from what’s permitted by various religious bodies such as the Roman Church. It has been customary for Christians since Paul (and, I suppose, Jews since Samuel…) to defame and blaspheme the holy things of Pagan religion, referring to the Gods as ‘demons’ and warning of dire consequences for doing spiritual things unapproved of by their doctrines. In general they are simply mistaken. There is no more harm in tarot or astrology than in mathematics or geometry, and no more spiritual danger in Pagan worship than in any other sort.

If you wish to take up Roman Christianity as a spiritual path, more power to you. If you feel a need to formally ‘renounce’ some previous practice, I suppose that’s ok, but it seems a little extreme. Unless you’re having some sort of spiritual difficulty, I see no need to do anything special. If you find your faith shaken by your former practices, perhaps its just an indication of the merit of the former practices.

 

[edwest2]

This is not consistent with Church teaching. The primary purpose of the Church is to spread the Gospel of Christ to all nations. In this is the truth, and there are no other truths.

Having studied the supernatural, the occult, witchcraft and pagan practices, it is clear that a utilitarian benefit is sought. Many books promise fulfillment of common human needs: love, friendship, money and other desires. Some provide means they say will keep you from harm by enemies or to prevent some problem from causing you harm, giving you a limited protection from it.

Those who practice paganism have erred from the true path. In the Old Testament, God tells His prophets to tell the people to abandon these practices.

Evil spirits do exist. To deny this is to deny the existence of exorcists in the Catholic Church. We must be on our guard against all things having to do with divination, contacting spirits and ritualistic practices that call on supernatural forces.

oswc.org/Precautions.asp

God bless,
Ed

 

[JHow]

…opened doors to all sorts of sinister influences: unwashed hippies with names like Rain and Moonfeather who always seem to have a incense-and-cat funk about them…

You should seek more positive influences: unwashed guys with names like Bubba and Clifford who always seem to have a tobacco-and-bore cleaner funk about them!

 

[FrCorey]

You should seek more positive influences: unwashed guys with names like Bubba and Clifford who always seem to have a tobacco-and-bore cleaner funk about them!

We priests smell like incence, frankencene and murhur,
what does this say about us?

 

[JHow]

We priests smell like incence, frankencene and murhur,
what does this say about us?

Well, I was teasing the poster and giving the smells of hunters.

The smell I most associate with church, however, is warm beeswax candles.

 

[Elene]

I guess for me it boils down to knowing that as Catholics we have nothing to gain from any of these new age practices, but possibly everything to lose. The people who use new age practices might have the best of intentions, but there is no unifying “Tradition.” Every person uses their own methods and trusts their own intuition to guide them. In this sense, it’s similar to some of the Protestant churches, where pastors are interpreting the Bible for themselves and “preaching” from the bottom of their hearts. They think they are teaching the truth, but really they aren’t, and often do a lot of damage along the way.

There have been other discussions here at CAF about this topic, and I noticed that the people who had an interest in the occult, ghosts, etc. were the ones who had never had any experience with them. The people who did were loathe to talk about it for fear of stirring things up again. Having had several horrible experiences in the home of my family member who does ouija, pendulums, crystals, and so on (once when I was staying over night), I can say that I will never, ever experiment beyond what the church has clearly determined is safe. No exceptions for me! It’s just not worth the risk.

 

[KathleenGee]

I would advise people to stay far far away from occult practices that conjur up any form of spiritism. Because indeed there is a reality to it. Keep one’s eyes on God, His sacraments, and living out the Gospel…I find the day is too short to fulfill all the blessings contain in living the Christian life.

Also note that the spirit of dissension is also equated on the level of witchcraft in the New Testament.

If there is any quality the Church is, it is called to be in communion in holiness with the Lord, the source of all goodness.

 

[Bob_Crowley]

Hi all,
I’m a convert to Catholicism (RCIA Easter 2010) and I used to mess with all sorts of things before my conversion. I’ve visited psychics to have my fortune told (twice), I’ve learned a lot about astrology learning to make my own charts and what not, I’ve used the Ouiji board (just once), I’ve used Tarot cards (lots of time), I tried “communicating” with spirits, I tried astral projection (leaving my body), crystal balls, yoga, wicca, you name it, I tried it.

My experience with the psychics and the Ouiji board and communicating with spirits seemed like they didn’t “work”, but the astrology, tarot cards and even the astral projection were creepy in how accurate/real things were…

My question is, should I do anything about this? I mean, I’ve heard that these are ways that open you up to evil spirits, but, I stopped trying these things a while ago, and I really never had a “problem” nor am I having any problems now…which also has me a little confused, if the occult and new age stuff is dangerous - then why didn’t it have a negative effect on me? I’m not saying it’s not dangerous, I’m simply asking, if I was involved with it, what possible reason would there be for evil spirits not to be trying to afflict me?

Opinions?

When you were playing with the Tarot Cards, you kept winning all the hands.

Just kidding.

I think God may have been protecting you, as He knew you’d become His eventually. I do think these things can definitely get you hooked into the spiritual world. I once visited a pastor for advice about some spiritual issues of my own. He sometimes did exorcisms. However in his very early years, he’d somehow got involved with a medium (I I forget the details of the story - it was a long time ago). He said his grandmother, or a spirit looking like his grandmother, actually appeared in the room.

I once heard a former homosexual state that at his second suicide attempt, Christ appeared, moved towards him and seemed to merge with him. From that time on, he never even had to struggle with homosexual temptation, and was married with kids. Now he had committed himself to Christ prior to his second suicide attempt, but had failed to resist the temptation. In despair he was going to kill himself. Yet most other people who are serious about suicide are allowed to just go ahead and kill themselves, and Christ makes no supernatural effort to restrain them. So why was he protected, and others not? Who knows?

Likewise in your case, why were you protected and others not? I don’t know. Some years ago I remember walking past a table in a shopping centre, where some young bloke was selling crystals, cards etc. As I looked at him, it seemed to me I could see layer after layer of something in his eyes. I felt confirmed in my suspicions when I turned back after walking past, and he was staring at me with a demonic grin. I’d be surprised if he hasn’t got significant psychological problems by this time.

I think you were protected basically. But if you want to make sure, confess it to the priest if you haven’t already done so. And if you do start getting strange problems, then get help. Until then, just ignore it. Put it down to youthful silliness, experience or whatever.

 

[KathleenGee]

In regard to past church practices regarding its treatment of pagan symbols and artifacts, one also has to look at the practices and behaviors of those cultures. Were people being sacrificed, murdered, people being forced into sex orgies? It was common in the ancient Roman empire to enslave people and children often used for sex so that by the time the person was about 21, he/she was already wasted.

A pagan Celtic told me they revere nature and people and do not do evil to anyone…so it all depends on your association.

 

[peaceplease]

I was once into new age. I think what attracted me, initially, was through television. I watched Sylvia Brown on a talk show. Then, I started reading many books about psychics. Also, about the after life, but I read about akashic(sp?) records. I became convinced that we chose everything about our lives.

A few years, ago, I contacted a medium. My sister wanted me to see if I could connect with my brother died. I had no messages from my brother, but she told me other things that made no sense to me. My mother was concerned that I was contacting a medium. She warned me that we are not supposed to know anything, and not contact the dead. I thought that she was worried for no reason. After all, John Edwards, a medium wrote a book about praying the rosary. So, if a Catholic talks about contacting the dead, then why can it be wrong? Also,my medium was a former nun.

I am not sure about John Edwards, and I am very puzzled about it. I would love to hear if anyone has any opinions on this matter.

I was born Catholic and went to parochial school during the elementary years. As a teenager, I stared to rebel somewhat. I went to church because I was forced to go. When I became a young adult, I quit going to church. Then I married in a civil ceremony. I wanted my children baptized because my ex-husband wanted them baptized. Although, he was not really Catholic. He was baptized Catholic, but that was the only sacrament he received. His parents divorced, and he was raised in no religion. So, my children were baptized. And, I returned to church when they started parochial school. Although, I was not really a good catholic. I went to church, out of sense of obligation to show my children. I just did not feel spiritual at all.

I was an off/on in the Catholic church. I divorced my first husband and re-married about twelve years later. Again, a civil ceremony. I had some new age beliefs at the time. My husband is a non-practicing orthodox.

In April, I went to the “Catholics Return Home” service. I was considering returning, shortly before this. I attended to get information about getting married in the church. It really became important to me, that I be able to receive Communion. My husband was married in the Catholic Church, from his previous marriage. I intend on getting my first marriage voided, which I understand will not be difficult. However, my husband needs to get an annulment. Unfortunately, he works out of town during the week, and we are unable to get to my priest together. His job will be done in a few months and we plan on getting the annulment. And, then re-marry in church.

I drifted away from the church before my new age beliefs. However, after much unhappiness and problems in my personal life, I returned home. Through, counseling, I realized that I needed to return to my roots.

I now go to church because I truly want to go to church. And, I am truly sorry for leaving and the mistakes that I have made. But, I am back with the intentions of staying, forever. I hope to get my family to join me, but I will just lead by example. My mother is a devout Catholic. I am glad that I returned home while she is still living.

Now, I just need to convince my sister to leave the mediums alone. She took my brother’s death hard, and I guess she hopes to get a message??