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Isaiah45_9
Guest
Ah, you hit the nail in the head. The problem is that if you are not using all the books Jesus and the Apostles used, then you have an incomplete version.
Peace.
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Peace.
po18guy
Well-known member
A calm, dispassionate well-reasoned reply would have been helpful. Ad hominem is not an argument.
po18guy
Well-known member
I was going to say that it is not T.U.L.I.P. season around here…
S
Salvatore123
Guest
Christian,
If you are a literal interpreter of the Bible, then you should be familiar with the passage in Revelation that states that nothing unclean shall enter heaven. Obviously, St. John was not talking about “dirt on the ground” unclean - he was referring to having any sin on one’s soul at the time of death.
I hope you will acknowledge that the NT also clearly delineates between what Catholics call mortal and venial sin.
Consider the following and please answer the question using the bible to support your answer:
You are driving home from work and your friends call to remind you that they are having a get together for an hour or so for Bill, a long time colleague who is moving. You forgot about it and want to go, but you don’t want to get any “guff” from your wife, so you call her and tell her a “white lie”: “Honey, I forgot something at the office - I am going take care of it and will be home after.” She says, “No problem”. Immediately after you both hang up, you are killed when an 18-wheeler smashes into your car. Now, for the purpose of this hypothetical, you were NOT going have an affair, you were not going get drunk, you were not going use drugs - you were simply going spend a little time with a departing colleague and you didn’t want to get into an argument you anticipated might occur if you said you were going have a few drinks with some friends. So, although you did not tell her the truth, you didn’t do so with ill will in your heart - you simply wanted to avoid an argument.
Now, do you think God will send you to everlasting Hell for telling such a simple, harmless untruth?
You see, the above hypothetical and question forces you into taking some pretty dramatic positions:
A. If you believe that NOTHING unclean enters heaven, and you MUST accept the premise in my hypothetical that you did not ask forgiveness for the lie you told because you were killed the moment you hung up the phone, then you cannot enter heaven because you died with unconfessed sin on your soul.
B. If you believe that NOTHING unclear enters heaven, but that God would surely not “sentence” you to everlasting Hell for such a venial sin, then what do you think happens to your soul?
Catholics have the answer: purgatory serves as a means of purging our souls from all sin so that when we see God in the face, we are perfectly clean.
What is your answer?
P.S. - I came up with the above hypo years ago to use to explain to my departed father in law before he died. He was born and raised Southern Baptist, and he was actually perplexed by the question. He was on the verge of acknowledging that purgatory might just exist as a “stopover” for one’s soul before encountering heaven until he suddenly died from a heart attack just two weeks after I posed that question to him. Unfortunately, we never finished discussing the hypo and his final conclusion before he died
If you are a literal interpreter of the Bible, then you should be familiar with the passage in Revelation that states that nothing unclean shall enter heaven. Obviously, St. John was not talking about “dirt on the ground” unclean - he was referring to having any sin on one’s soul at the time of death.
I hope you will acknowledge that the NT also clearly delineates between what Catholics call mortal and venial sin.
Consider the following and please answer the question using the bible to support your answer:
You are driving home from work and your friends call to remind you that they are having a get together for an hour or so for Bill, a long time colleague who is moving. You forgot about it and want to go, but you don’t want to get any “guff” from your wife, so you call her and tell her a “white lie”: “Honey, I forgot something at the office - I am going take care of it and will be home after.” She says, “No problem”. Immediately after you both hang up, you are killed when an 18-wheeler smashes into your car. Now, for the purpose of this hypothetical, you were NOT going have an affair, you were not going get drunk, you were not going use drugs - you were simply going spend a little time with a departing colleague and you didn’t want to get into an argument you anticipated might occur if you said you were going have a few drinks with some friends. So, although you did not tell her the truth, you didn’t do so with ill will in your heart - you simply wanted to avoid an argument.
Now, do you think God will send you to everlasting Hell for telling such a simple, harmless untruth?
You see, the above hypothetical and question forces you into taking some pretty dramatic positions:
A. If you believe that NOTHING unclean enters heaven, and you MUST accept the premise in my hypothetical that you did not ask forgiveness for the lie you told because you were killed the moment you hung up the phone, then you cannot enter heaven because you died with unconfessed sin on your soul.
B. If you believe that NOTHING unclear enters heaven, but that God would surely not “sentence” you to everlasting Hell for such a venial sin, then what do you think happens to your soul?
Catholics have the answer: purgatory serves as a means of purging our souls from all sin so that when we see God in the face, we are perfectly clean.
What is your answer?
P.S. - I came up with the above hypo years ago to use to explain to my departed father in law before he died. He was born and raised Southern Baptist, and he was actually perplexed by the question. He was on the verge of acknowledging that purgatory might just exist as a “stopover” for one’s soul before encountering heaven until he suddenly died from a heart attack just two weeks after I posed that question to him. Unfortunately, we never finished discussing the hypo and his final conclusion before he died
M
MarcoPolo
Guest
Ok, so to my question then, you believe your works affect your eternal salvation then, correct?
R
roveau
Guest
I’m sure others have observed the same. The Catholic dogma on Purgatory does not rest on this one quote.
po18guy
Well-known member
Exactly! It is only one of many verses. Each day I feel more and more sorry for those who have only the bible (and just 66 books at that) and are forced to reverse-engineer Christian history using only the incomplete written tradition.
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