New Australian Law Requires Priests to Break Seal of Confession to Report Admissions of Child Abuse

[Mtatum1958]

From the article, this law is only in the Australian Capital Territory (ACT), a small “state” with our capital of Canberra.

Thanks for the view from your country’s point of view.

 

[SnoopSword]

“New Australian Law Requires Priests to Break Seal of Confession to Report Admissions of Child Abuse”

That is just wrong. Priests are bound not to comply with that law.

Hey just a FYI, have you actually ever looked into the details of these abuse claims? Well let me bring some good news!

-80 Percent of all abuse cases have nothing to do children, but rather post-puberty teenage males.
-The Liberal and secular Psychology Today even admitted: "the phrase ‘pedophile priest’ is a misnomer."
-The facts are, there is only 0.3 percent pedophilia (child abuse) at a catholic church environment making it just about the safest place for kids.
-The term ‘S-x Abuse’ is a misnomer; the prefix of ‘s-x’ is suggestive and misleading compared to the reality of the claims. The term ‘Priest’ is also a misnomer.

Anyone well read or experienced with the 40,000 creedless/private ‘churches’ (really anabaptists and/or cults) can verify that the abuse in those churches take on a preditory-like nature towards women and children. Their divorce rates are far higher than ours for a reason.

The abuse claims are largely a product of fake news and their practice of spell-crafting (a use of language that cause people invoke demonically created ‘thought-forms’ (a phantom idol which we ingest). These are ‘shared’ idols among the masses. We can chose to partake of them and have them occupy our inner temple. They have told many millions to do their bidding: ‘now you can leave the church!’. ‘Now you can vote for abortion!’. '‘now you can believe that priests can’t save you!’.

Some say the NT refers to these thought-forms as unclean spirits. However, this subject in particular might be a spirit of anti-Christ because the Church is Christ’s body on earth; no seriously on the road to Damascus Paul is going to the early Church and Jesus says to Paul the he considers the Church on earth to himself literally “I am Jesus, the one you are persecuting”. This attack on the Church is literally attacking Christ in a direct way.

It makes me wonder if this is that tribulation - the great ‘religious deception’ of the anti-Christ that the catechism mentions. Did anyone really lose confidence in the Church and turn to themselves for salvation and deny Jesus because of Luther? Todays 40,000 business enterprises are taking in Catholic sheep because of this abuse scandal.

The Protocols (#17) speak of their mission to ‘destroy the clergy’. The method they say they will use to accomplish this is to ‘discredit the priesthood’. But Satan is a liar. Yes. He lied to Adam and Eve. Their eyes opened when they realized they were lied to and deceived, for they were already created with sufficient knowledge to known good and evil and the consequences thereof.

Let us not allow the serpent to decieve us also. The Church really is the ground and pillar of truth. We are the good in the world. The serpent only wounds us - but he is not part of us. Contemplate which side you are really on if this post bothered you. Chose the light and truth of Christ and his Church, not the deadly thought-forms of the serpent.

 

[margaret42]

Pray to that Australia respects the priesthood and the Catholic church.

 

[Alex337]

Alex337:

Actually there’s a point; what should a priest do out someone admits to being suicidal in confession? Can they alert authorities and medical professionals?

How? In my parish, confessionals are anonymous. Priest and penitent in separate compartments. How does a priest alert authorities about someone he does not know? He could only urge them to seek professional help. Confession is not counseling.

In mine they tend to know the person. Smaller town I guess

 

[Alex337]

Alex337:

To

phil19034:

Alex337:

I still think any priest who turns an abuser in is making a very fine sacrifice

You realize that the priest risks hell for that, don’t you?

To save a child. Good man.

And risk sending more people to hell because more sinners would be afraid to go to confession? No.

I’m sorry, this might sound HORRIBLE, but no single child is worth allowing several people to burn in hell.

Let’s look at abortion… which is an automatic excommunication. Before priests were given the ability to to forgive abortions, if a priest found out in the confessional that someone received an automatic excommunication, and sees them still receiving communion there is NOTHING he can do about it unless the person talks about the abortion outside the confessional.

You don’t get it. The elimination of the seal of confession could eventually lead to millions more people burning in Hell who would not have if the seal was in tact.

Justice for one child is NOT worth sending tons souls to Hell.

The Church’s job is to help sinners (including rapists, murders, etc) get to Heaven.

It’s not the Church’s job to help the govt seek temporal punishment for criminals.

BTW - I strongly believe that people who confess major crimes like rape, murder, etc are confessing behind the screen to a priest who doesn’t know them. The chances of a face to face Confession (outside the prison cell) for such crimes is not very good.

I think you may have missed the part where I said intentions to harm others, or themself, in the future it what should be reported. If people refuse to go too confession because they know a priest will alert authorities to them planning to murder, rape or torture someone in the future then they aren’t exactly penitent.

 

[margaret42]

A great movie on the role of a priest!

 

[Alex337]

Alex337:

But I do also think a murderer who was truly repentant would confess even knowing they would be reported.

As others have mentioned, Confession about receiving God’ s grace and reconciling with God. He is who we are concerned with in Confession and to place barriers on that would be unjust.

To give a, alibi silly, hypothetical. Imagine if Canon Law required Catholics to all wear a purple top hat and pink blazer when receiving Communion. There would be people who received Eucharist devoutly. But many would probably stop because wearing a purple top hat and pink blazer is a bit ridiculous. An unnecessary burden was put upon a sacrament as a result many people would miss out on its graces.

Now tying that back to Confession, remeber that it deals with God’s justice. To require reporting would be to place a burden of civil law on the penitent. While you would still see people confessing, it’s be in lesser numbers. Fear of civil law would discourage penitent from the sacrament. And to put civil law above God’s justice would be an injustice. Imagine for example if you knew your next confession was going to land you with 20 years in prison. How eager would you be to go?

As a side question: You mentioned you have almost come to a decision on your religion. May I ask what you’re inclined to?

If my next confession was that I had murdered, raped or tortured someone I would be immensely inclined to go. I’d want the chance to confess in my own church before handing myself in.

But remember, I think priests should break the seal only to stop future crimes. If a penitent admits that they are planning to harm themself or others they should be able to speak up. I don’t see how this wouldn’t stop people confessing.

I’m currently most inclined towards the Quakers. I’d be happy to speak more on this in pm but don’t want to side track the thread.

 

[Prodigal_Son]

But remember, I think priests should break the seal only to stop future crimes.

If you heard someone confess to you that they had abused someone multiple times in the past, how would that NOT make you suspect they would do so in the future?

 

[PetraG]

My question is whether or not Australian law allows law enforcement to wiretap jailhouse or in-prison confessions. The priests aren’t going to violate the seal, but is law enforcement empowered to violate the religious rights of the priests and penitents?

 

[Alex337]

Alex337:

But remember, I think priests should break the seal only to stop future crimes.

If you heard someone confess to you that they had abused someone multiple times in the past, how would that NOT make you suspect they would do so in the future?

I’d speak to them and ask. After all I, like priests and psychiatrists, am not psychic.

 

[Alex337]

Alex337:

I think I already explained that I think it should work the same as a psychiatrist. Are you going to answer my question?

Here’s why it can’t be like a psychiatrist.

When child abuser, rapist, murder, etc comes into that confessional, the priest’s number one job is to help that sinner heal AND AVOID HELL. As harsh as it might sound to people who don’t understand, the priest’s main concern is saving the soul of sinner/criminal, not helping the victim.

There was a video (fictional, but accurate) I saw recently about a priest who heard the confession of the man who killed his father. When the priest realized that the man who was confessing to him was the same driver who killed his father years ago in a hit & run, he was furious… stormed out of the confessional, etc. He starts praying the Our Father slowly and can’t finish it for several tries… then he finally is able to slowly say “and help us to forgive those who trespasses against us.” Finally, he’s able to continue hearing this man’s confession and absolves him. It was a very powerful short film.

There was also an episode of the BCC’s “Father Brown” where a criminal confessed to Father that he was going to kill him. In the show, Father Brown could not tell a soul and didn’t (though in the show he did do what he could to link the criminal to another crime).

In real life, if someone entered the Confessional and told the priest that he was planning on killing a member of the clergy, the priest couldn’t do anything about it. Even if the person told the priest that he was the priest who was going to be killed. The priest would have to go about his day as he normally would, without changing anything or acting on the information he has. Even if that meant he was going to die.

That’s how serious the Seal of Confession is. A priest not only has to be willing to accept prison, but if necessary, death to preserve the seal.

Priests who break the seal of confession are not brave, they are cowards.

God Bless

Cool. I think the best way for a person to heal and avoid hell is to not murder, rape or torture. Or kill themself for that matter. So if a person tells a priest that they plan to do the following then alerting the authorities and stopping them assists in this.

Remember I’m speaking about future crimes, not past ones.

 

[Alex337]

Cool. I disagree. Saving people is a very fine thing to do and I support their decision to do so.

 

[Alex337]

Alex337:

I’d feel far less comfortable with a priest who does nothing about child abuse.

If you think that being the vehicle by which the sactifying grace of Almighty God pours out onto the soul of a poor sinner is nothing, then you have a very strange (and non-Catholic) idea of what that is.

I don’t think a person is much of a vehicle of grace if they let people be murdered, raped or tortured.

 

[Alex337]

What does it profit a man to gain the whole world and lose his soul?

Why should helping a child be about profiting him?

 

[Prodigal_Son]

I’d speak to them and ask. After all I, like priests and psychiatrists, am not psychic.

I assure you a psychiatrist that heard of a case of past abuse would report it, regardless of whether the person said they intended to continue the abuse.

 

[Alex337]

Alex337:

I’d speak to them and ask. After all I, like priests and psychiatrists, am not psychic.

I assure you a psychiatrist that heard of a case of past abuse would report it, regardless of whether the person said they intended to continue the abuse.

From my understanding that would go against the law.

 

[guanophore]

Sorry about that, but did catch somebodies attention and your right. Really meant about 1000 years since celibacy was enforced.

This is ridiculous. Pedophilia has nothing to with celibacy! Most child sexual abuse occurs with heterosexual family members, or people that are acquainted with the victim.

Unjust, but also unnecessary. Any good priest would know not to give absolution unless the penitent turns themselves in to the authorities.

The only requirement for absolution is a firm purpose of amendment. The Church has never required that one submit themselves to secular punishment to expiate sin.

If they’re not turning themselves in they don’t seem penitent.

Codswallop!

There are many ways to make reparation for sin.

I know when I confessed my priest told me to make amends to my parents to show actual contrition. Seems the same thing.

It is not.

I still think any priest who turns an abuser in is making a very fine sacrifice.

You don’t get it. The vast majority of the most predatory abusers will never set foot in a confessional. The people who have sinned and go to confession want to change.

A priest who violates the seal of the confessional commits a very grave sin against God and Man.

Which pales in comparison to the “good” that might come from revealing it.

Nothing can go against the law of Christ.

I wish this were true. We would not have Catholics participating in abortions and birth control! Much less child abuse.

Satisfaction is just as much a part of penance and I find it very difficult to understand how someone can be simultaneously contrite but not willing to face the music when it comes to grievous crimes against society like that.

There are times when this is appropriate, but not all. There are times when satisfaction is more appropriate outside of secular systems.

Murder, rape, grand larceny, massive fraud, and any violence against children I strongly wish required satisfaction as a contingent part of absolution.

If the secular system were holy, then it might be different, but this is not always the case. Reparation is important, but not always according to the world’s model.

 

[guanophore]

As far as I know there’s nothing in Divine Law stopping the Church from making this a matter of discipline.

No, but the Church has had many millennia of experience dealing with the secular systems of justice, and found them wanting.

To save a child, possibly multiple children from an abuser. My hat goes off to such a man who would put the safety of a child before their own vocation. I would pray that they find another way to help people.

This is not usually necessary. Anonymous reporting is always an option. In the US, licensed therapists use this option.

I thought that part of confession normally involved a promise that the penitent would go to the law. That’s what I was taught before confession.

No.

I’d feel far less comfortable with a priest who does nothing about child abuse.

Of course, but this statement is based on an erroneous assumption that not reporting a confession to authorities means “doing nothing”.

Priests are only dealing with what has happened in the past and so there’s no reason to make them mandatory reporters.

This is also an erroneous assumption.

 

[Alex337]

Alex337:

If they’re not turning themselves in they don’t seem penitent.

Codswallop!

There are many ways to make reparation for sin.

I’ve been speaking about people intending to sin in the future; how is that penitent?

Alex337:

I still think any priest who turns an abuser in is making a very fine sacrifice.

You don’t get it. The vast majority of the most predatory abusers will never set foot in a confessional. The people who have sinned and go to confession want to change.

Now friend, you seem to be getting rather heated. There’s no need to be adversarial. I’ve been speaking for most of this thread about people in the confessional admitting that they plan to sin in the future and that they should be reported. If that never happens then nothing changes, so why freak out?

 

[giuseppe96]

Something as serious as pedophilia and child abuse needs to be reported while preventing the Seal of Confession from being broken. The priest can’t say anything but assign the penitent to turn themselves in as penance.