New Bishop Williamson interview (Spiegel)

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SPIEGEL INTERVIEW WITH BISHOP RICHARD WILLIAMSON

SPIEGEL
Interview conducted by Peter Wensierski and Steffen Winter
02/09/2009

spiegel.de/international/world/0,1518,606323,00.html
SPIEGEL: The Vatican is demanding that you retract your denial of the Holocaust, and it is threatening to not allow you to resume your activities as a bishop. How will you react?

Williamson: Throughout my life, I have always sought the truth. That is why I converted to Catholicism and became a priest. And now I can only say something, the truth of which I am convinced. Because I realize that there are many honest and intelligent people who think differently, I must now review the historical evidence once again. I said the same thing in my interview with Swedish television: Historical evidence is at issue, not emotions. And if I find this evidence, I will correct myself. But that will take time.

SPIEGEL: How can an educated Catholic deny the Holocaust?

Williamson: I addressed the subject in the 1980s. I had read various writings at the time. I cited the Leuchter report (eds. note: a debunked theory produced in the 1980s claiming erroneously that the Nazi gas chambers were technically impractical) in the interview, and it seemed plausible to me. Now I am told that it has been scientifically refuted. I plan now to look into it.

SPIEGEL: You could travel to Auschwitz yourself.

Williamson: No, I will not travel to Auschwitz. I’ve ordered the book by Jean-Claude Pressac. It’s called “Auschwitz: Technique and Operation of the Gas Chambers.” A printout is now being sent to me, and I will read it and study it.

SPIEGEL: The Society of Saint Pius X has set an ultimatum for the end of February. Are you not risking a break with the group?

Williamson: In the Old Testament, the Prophet Jonah tells the sailors when their ship is in distress: " Take me up, and cast me forth into the sea; so shall the sea be calm unto you: for I know that for my sake this great tempest is upon you." The Society has a religious mission that is suffering because of me. I will now examine the historic evidence. If I do not find it convincing, I will do everything in my power to avoid inflicting any further harm on the Church and the Society.

SPIEGEL: What does the repeal of the excommunication by Pope Benedict XVI mean to you?

Williamson: We just want to be Catholic, nothing else. We have not developed our own teachings, but are merely preserving the things that the Church has always taught and practiced. And in the sixties and seventies, when everything was changed in the name of this Council (eds. note: the Second Vatican Council), it was suddenly a scandal. As a result, we were forced to the margins of the church, and now that empty churches and an aging clergy make it clear that these changes were a failure, we are returning to the center. That’s the way it is for us conservatives: we are proved right, as long as we wait long enough.

SPIEGEL: People at the Vatican claimed that they didn’t know you. Is that true?

Williamson: Most contacts pass through Bishop Fellay and the General Council, of which I am not a member. But three of us four bishops attended a private dinner with Cardinal Castrillon Hoyos in 2000. It was more about getting to know each other, but we certainly talked about theological issues and even a bit of philosophy. The cardinal was very friendly.

SPIEGEL: The Second Vatican Council counts as one of the great achievements of the Catholic Church. Why do you not fully recognize it?

Williamson: It is absolutely unclear what we are supposed to recognize. An important document is called “Gaudium et spes,” or Joy and Hope. In it, the writers rhapsodize about the ability of mass tourism to bring people together. But one can hardly expect a conservative society to embrace package tours. It discusses fears and hardships. And then a nuclear war between the superpowers is mentioned. You see, much of this is already outdated. These Council documents are always ambiguous. Because no one knew what exactly this was supposed to mean, everyone started doing as he wished shortly after the Council. This has resulted in this theological chaos we have today. What are we supposed to recognize, the ambiguity or the chaos?

SPIEGEL: Are you actually aware that you are dividing the Church with your extreme views?

Williamson: Only violation of the dogmas, that is, the infallible principles, destroys faith. The Second Vatican Council declared that it would proclaim no new dogmas. Today the liberal bishops act as though it were some sort of all-encompassing super-dogma, and they use it as justification for a dictatorship of relativism. This contradicts the texts of the Council.

SPIEGEL: Your position on Judaism is consistently anti-Semitic.

Williamson: St. Paul put it this way: The Jews are beloved for the sake of Our Father, but our enemies for the sake of the gospel.
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SPIEGEL: Do you seriously intend to use Catholic tradition and the Bible to justify your anti-Semitism?

Williamson: Anti-Semitism means many things today, for instance, when one criticizes the Israeli actions in the Gaza Strip. The Church has always understood the definition of anti-Semitism to be the rejection of Jews because of their Jewish roots. This is condemned by the Church. Incidentally, this is self-evident in a religion whose founders and all important individuals in its early history were Jews. But it was also clear, because of the large number of Jewish Christians in early Christianity, that all men need Christ for their salvation – all men, including the Jews.

SPIEGEL: The pope will travel to Israel soon, where he plans to visit the Holocaust Memorial. Are you also opposed to this?

Williamson: Making a pilgrimage to the Holy Land is a great joy for Christians. I wish the Holy Father all the best on his journey. What troubles me about Yad Vashem is that Pope Pius XII is attacked there, even though no one saved more Jews during the Nazi period than he did. For instance, he had baptismal certificates issued for persecuted Jews to protect them against arrest. These facts have been distorted to mean exactly the opposite. Otherwise, I hope that the pope will also have an eye and a heart for the women and children who were injured in the Gaza Strip, and that he will speak out in support of the Christian population in Bethlehem, which is now walled in.

SPIEGEL: Your statements have caused great injury and outrage in the Jewish world. Why don’t you apologize?

Williamson: If I realize that I have made an error, I will apologize. I ask every human being to believe me when I say that I did not deliberately say anything untrue. I was convinced that my comments were accurate, based on my research in the 1980s. Now I must review everything again and look at the evidence.

SPIEGEL: Do you at least recognize universal human rights?

Williamson: When human rights were declared in France, hundreds of thousands were killed throughout France. Where human rights are considered an objective order for the state to implement, there are constantly anti-Christian policies. When it comes to preserving the individual’s freedom of conscience against the democratic state, then human rights perform an important function. The individual needs these rights against a country that behaves like a Leviathan. But the Christian concept of the state is a different one, so that the Christian theories of human rights emphasize that freedom is not an end in itself. The point is not freedom from something, but freedom for something. For good.

SPIEGEL: Your statements and the lifting of your excommunication have triggered protests worldwide. Can you understand this?

Williamson: A single interview on Swedish television has dominated the news for weeks in Germany. Yes, it does surprise me. Is this the case with all violations of the law in Germany? Hardly. No, I am only the tool here, so that action can be taken against the SSPX and the pope. Apparently Germany’s leftist Catholicism has not yet forgiven Ratzinger for becoming pope.
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It’s refreshing to hear a man speak who is not a slave to political correctness or human respect.
 
No comments on this interview? Did you not expect such intelligent and thoughtful replies? This is not a surprise to those who know the good Bishop for how he really is, rather than how the media is try to portray him.
 
This is actually an excellent interview. I have read it carefully, and I have also read some commentary on it I respect highly.

I have to say, Williamson is a bright man. I know he is on guard here not to say nothing that will cause controversy, and I personally do not trust him, but a couple of things are evident.

He is VERY bright.

He can be VERY measured.

And he is dead on that people are using him as a tool to stop reintegration of the SSPX with the Church and get back at the Pope for having the temerity to be elected Pope by the Cardinals. :rolleyes:

Still… I really have a hard time with what I know of this man from other sources. Like all people, we can put forth different faces to the world.

This interview however, is excellent.
 
He is doing what one is instructed to do in his situation. When confronted by a conflict of ideas and Rome says to change, he is studying to try and understand the point of view of his Pope.
 
There is one more thing I will add. I think doing this interview on the heels of another interview proving to be a huge embarassment to all, was flat out stupid. If he is ever a bishop in the Catholic Church, it should be with the provision that he cease and desist in all contact with the public media. A vow of silence wouldn’t be such a bad idea until he decides he does not like the taste of shoe leather.
 
pnewton said:
There is one more thing I will add. I think doing this interview on the heels of another interview proving to be a huge embarassment to all, was flat out stupid. If he is ever a bishop in the Catholic Church, it should be with the provision that he cease and desist in all contact with the public media. A vow of silence wouldn’t be such a bad idea until he decides he does not like the taste of shoe leather.
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But wouldn’t silencing him look a little suspicious?
 
latinmasslover said:
But wouldn’t silencing him look a little suspicious?
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To those who have made up their mind already, yes. However, best to be silent and thought a fool than to open your mouth and remove all doubt. This interview is great, so far. I think most of us are aware that reporters more often than not cut and edit to make their victim appear the way they want him to. I really believe this is the gist of what happened the first time.

As a bishop, he has no obligation to speak to the secular media, especially things that have no bearing on his field of expertise.
 
**

Williamson: St. Paul put it this way: The Jews are beloved for the sake of Our Father, but our enemies for the sake of the gospel. **

No one finds the second part of this quote problematic?
 
justme said:
**

No one finds the second part of this quote problematic?**

Why should they? He is quoting the Bible See 1 Thess 2:14-16. But be ware, in that Divinely inspirect quote, God tells us that the Jews - yes, the Jews - killed Christ. That statement of God offends many people today.
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This is the most important thing he said:

“No, I am only the tool here, so that action can be taken against the SSPX and the pope. Apparently Germany’s leftist Catholicism has not yet forgiven Ratzinger for becoming pope.”
 
This is great. I have every confidence that when he looks at the evidence again he will make a real apology for his mistakes.
 
Yours_Truly said:
No comments on this interview? Did you not expect such intelligent and thoughtful replies? This is not a surprise to those who know the good Bishop for how he really is, rather than how the media is try to portray him.
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There is nothing intelligent or thoughtful here. He just rattles off his talking points, without admitting any error or changing his position on anything. This is standard damage control from someone that wants to say something non-comittal as cover for going away.

Note that he says all he wants to do is be Catholic - but in the same breath denies the validity of the Second Vatican Council. He says he favors human rights, but only when defined as the right to do “good,” whatever that means. Perhaps he will announce that Pressac’s book convinced him. More likely he will fade into the background and keep quiet. In my opinion, that is the best thing he can do at this point for himself and the SSPX.
 
TMC said:
There is nothing intelligent or thoughtful here. He just rattles off his talking points, without admitting any error or changing his position on anything. This is standard damage control from someone that wants to say something non-comittal as cover for going away.

Note that he says all he wants to do is be Catholic - but in the same breath denies the validity of the Second Vatican Council. He says he favors human rights, but only when defined as the right to do “good,” whatever that means. Perhaps he will announce that Pressac’s book convinced him. More likely he will fade into the background and keep quiet. In my opinion, that is the best thing he can do at this point for himself and the SSPX.
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You dislike brutal honesty or something? Why is ambiguity so sinful when Bishop Williamson does it, but perfectly legit when it’s done in a Council of the Church, thus causing scandal in every Catholic Church throughout the world? Is it because the Jews are now offended?:eek: Can’t have it both ways.
 
I liked the interview. Thanks for posting this!

I think the Bishop tells it like it is and has risen above political correctness. The man is saying “show me I’m wrong and I’ll correct myself”, something everybody should say when faced with certain allegations.

It’s time the SSPX is given full communion with Rome. Let them celebrate the Tridentine Mass, that’s all they want.
 
Who even remembers today that President George W Bush was a staunch opponent of the Armenian Genocide Bill. He said it was bad because it would alienate Turkey, who are a key ally in the War Terror. Can you imagine if this had been a Bill about Jewish victims instead of Christians ? It might very well have destroyed his career. We live in a world, where no one may bring an accusation against a Jew, nor question any that they make against Christians.
 
latinmasslover said:
You dislike brutal honesty or something? Why is ambiguity so sinful when Bishop Williamson does it, but perfectly legit when it’s done in a Council of the Church, thus causing scandal in every Catholic Church throughout the world? Is it because the Jews are now offended?:eek: Can’t have it both ways.
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I have no problem with brutal honesty, but I find none in this interview. I also have no problem with ambiguity - it also has its place. I simply pointed out what I think is obvious - the interview is not intelligent or thoughtful. It is simply talking points designed to deflect attacks without making any retraction of his past statements. I also pointed out that I think that deflecting and then fading into the background is the best thing he can do right now.

I truly have no idea what you are referring to by with you comments about offending Jews, or what you mean by “have it both ways.” I said nothing about offending Jews and I am not trying to have anything any particular way. I simply opining on this interview - which is no more than a fairly standard PR retreat mechanism.
 
Yours_Truly said:
No comments on this interview? Did you not expect such intelligent and thoughtful replies? This is not a surprise to those who know the good Bishop for how he really is, rather than how the media is try to portray him.
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Soooo true!!! 👍
 
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